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My 1968 "Refurbishing"
I hesitate to call it a restoration, so let's call it a "refurbishing" :)
I've been posting a bunch of questions recently, so I thought I'd put up some photos. I bought this car about three weeks ago in the Bay Area. The overall sheet metal and body condition were outstanding being an original California car. The paint was very faded, and the interior has some sun damaged areas, but overall the car was extremely straight. Not a lick of rot, no damaged panels, and the car drives great. The only downside is the car currently has an Oldsmobile 455 in it, but the PO was at least sanitary in his install - reconnecting the Air Conditioning, replacing the frame mounts with Olds mounts, and doing a pretty sanitary wiring job as well. The car came with the original 400 engine block, which I will at some point rebuild and replace (the current motor runs awesome, so I'm going to save that expense for later) I have the original window sticker and the car was very loaded. PS/PB, tilt wheel, Speed Warning sensor, Fuel Warning Light, Air Conditioning, Map Light, 4-way power seat - a well optioned car. I have all the PHS documentation for it as well. I've spent the last few weeks making sure the mechanical condition was good. Had the transmission serviced, put a 3.36 POSI rear end (to replace the factor 2.93), added a TACH, got the wiring straightened out and other general maintenance. I replaced the leaking steering box with a fast-ratio unit and did some body panel alignment, as well as many Peformance Years orders to get things back in order. This has also given me some time to enjoy the car before I stripped it down this past week for paint. My plans for the car are to keep it *mostly* original. I am going to have the exterior painted Verdoro green instead of the April Gold. I'm going to keep the gold interior, but the dash and center console are faded in weird areas due to sun damage, so I'm going to repaint the dash and console black. I'm going to mimic the color scheme of the Parchment interiors, actually. Black Dash, Black Console, Black Carpet - but door panels, seat covers, headliner, etc. all Gold. I even called Legendary Interiors last week, and I'm having custom-made door panels in April Gold, but with Black Carpet along the bottom. It should have a very factory look to it, and I think the black/gold combination will offset very nicely. Here are pics of the car from the original craigslist ad, and a couple I shot as I drove the car back 800 miles from northern CA to Washington state. https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...c6f97f121c.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...f868e51ea3.jpg https://ncudhq.bn1.livefilestore.com...A/P1000569.JPG https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...w/P1000567.JPG https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...s/P1000574.JPG |
These are the last images I took of the completed car, right before I pulled it in the shop and started the teardown. Sun was going down, so the pictures weren't great. I really LOVE the Year One Rally II wheels. I had these on my '72, but that project got put on the back-burner until this is done. I also replaced the Grant wood wheel with a repro Pontiac wood wheel which I like much better.
I also cut the closed hood scoops and converted to a Ram Air setup. The great thing about GM cars, is that that even though my car has an Olds 455, it's a Q-jet car and the factory Pontiac Ram Air Cleaner fits perfectly. https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130401_001.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130401_002.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130401_003.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130401_005.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130401_008.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130401_009.jpg |
This is the stripped car, just before it was picked up for paint. The rear bumper came off when the painter picked it up (needed a hand with that), and the door glass and quarter windows will come off up at the shop (didn't want the glass to rattle around). I happened to have a set of 14" Rally II wheels that came on a '72 Firebird I have, which are perfect painting wheels. ONE of these will come off, get refinished, and become the spare for the car since it originally came with Rally II's.
https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130406_001.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130406_002.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130406_003.jpg |
Albert. That dont even look like the same car, I love those wheels, How long did thay say it will take to paint it?
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Can't wait for the "after" pictures!
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Subscribing
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Looks like a very nice car, I just finished my 68 Ram Air I refurbish a week ago. did everything but paint (which it needs) Had it out Friday and enjoyed it for the day, Looking forward to your finished pictures.
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Looking good. I've been thinking about getting a set of those 17s, but it looks like I'd have to drop the suspension to make it sit like I'd want.
Is it originally a gold car? I've always thought gold on gold was a nice color combo for these cars. |
Awesome, paint shop jail!
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Thanks everyone. Yes, originally Code G April Gold. Going to be Code Q Verdoro Green :)
Should be about a month for paint. I have a friend who does great work out of his home shop. His prices are so good for the quality, so it's hard to book time. But 4 weeks seems fair. Plus I'm going on vacation at the end of the month, so when I get back I'll have a freshly painted car! |
Wait...you WANT a Verdoro Green car? That's different.
I've had my car since 1991. I'm ready for a different color. |
Yup, sure do! A green GTO is exactly what I wanted. Many years ago I wanted to do a 68 Chevelle in Green. So I was actively seeking a GTO that I could make Green.
Is there a better green than Verdoro on our cars? Was Verdoro used on other cars of the era or would you recommend a different shade? |
I think verdoro was specifically a pontiac color name, but it was the most popular color choice in 1969 & 1969 for GTOs.
If you're set on verdoro I wouldn't change it now. You are the owner, paint it plaid if that floats your boat! |
My beef is mostly with how common it is, I like the color. Seems more often than not you'll find folks looking for one that's not green.
One of the most striking '68s I've seen was gold on gold. I think it's a great combo so I was surprised you wanted to change it. |
I think the problem is that the original 68 Gold is more of a light green, as far as I can tell. So it's not really "gold" or "green" and to me, look bland. Of course, I have not seen April Gold done in person, but this is what see online...
http://ultimategto.com/carshows/gtoaa05/68_jk036_1.jpg |
I could see that. I guess my opinion is April Gold over Ivy Gold is better than Verdoro Green over Ivy Gold.
When I repainted my car I thought real hard about painting it Aleutian Blue or Nightshade Green. I'd love to have something that's a little more unusual but in the end I decided to stick with green since that's what it's always been. If I'd have known you wanted a green car maybe we could have worked a deal while you were in the Bay Area :D |
Yes the Ivy Gold interior does limit my options. But then I saw this car, and I thought it was pretty well done.
https://dealeraccelerate.s3.amazonaw...7_low_res.jpgp If I take this look of car, with the Black treatment used on a Parchment Interior, my hope is it will look good. A little original, but not so "customized". http://image.highperformancepontiac....o+interior.jpg |
Howabout Black with the Ivy Gold guts?
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I think your idea of doing a parchment themed interior with the ivy gold instead of parchment will look fine. Most non experts will assume it's 'factory'. Verdoro Green was a color of an ashtray that John DeLorean's wife (I think) saw at a dinner party in 1966, and loved it so much that the color was blended for use on the '67 Firebird. Super popular color in '68 and '69, and was a special order color on the '67 GTO. There's a Verdoro Green '67 on the Ultimate GTO Picture site, and it's a beaut. I love the color, I always wanted to build a verdoro green/parchment '65 GTO convertible, and may some day. The color got a bad rap because it faded to 'army green' with neglect and age. Paint that was kept up, though, to me, is beautiful. Go for it!
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Thanks! I hope it turns out well. I've really wanted a green car. I thought green/gold would at least be different from the sea of more usual colors.
I already have 4 black cars; 68 Charger, 78 Trans Am, 72 Vega and my daily driver. I wanted something a little different in the color spectrum as I seem to get nothing but Red and Black cars. |
Don't forget to update your signature! ;)
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i've known of a lot of VooDoo Green cars to get color changes.
But have never known anyone to change a color - TO - VooDoo Green . You are an inspiration to all the early Green machines around the nation. |
LOL. Thanks Baron. I love the color. What can I say? :D
Since I had some room in the shop with the car gone, I spent Sunday watching Knight Rider on Netflix, and bending over the blasting cabinet refinishing the headlight doors and actuators. I'm really going for protection and coverage more so than concourse correct. My friend does excellent MIG welding and was able to repair the corner cracks in the doors. Since they were disassembled, I also straightened out the brackets. The last one gives you a 'before and after' on the headlight doors. Every part was disassembled, blasted, and painted individually. On the headlight doors, all of the original plastic bushings were in good shape, so they were reused. I try to refinish OEM parts when I can. Since I rarely see this posted but often asked, here are the paints and colors: Black = Rustoleum semi-gloss enamel. I've used lots and lots of blacks, but none compares to Rustoleum. It's a bit fiddly in that it takes a while to dry so you have to be patient, but the finished surface is HARD AS A ROCK and very durable. It looks glossy in pictures, but I think it matches well in person. Again, more importantly, it's very durable. It's my go-to underhood black. Grey Brackets, Bolts/Nuts = Eastwood Zinc Phosphate. Reproduces a nice as-cast metal color. Headlight Actuator = Eastwood Gold Cad. I know they recommend a three-stage process to get the true cad plated look, but I think it looks fine bare. Headlight Actuator plastic cover = SEM Laundau Black. My go-to black for all plastics Headlight Lens Buckets, Vacuum Hose Clips = Eastwood Clear Zinc. While they look silver in the pictures, the Clear Zinc gives that nice glossy blue-gray color you'd see on raw plated parts. This week will be masking the incorrectly painted hidden headlight covers and grilles! https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130406_004.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130406_005.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130406_006.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130406_007.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130407_012.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130407_014.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130407_015.jpg |
That GTO is clean. Nicely optioned too.:)
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Stopped off at the painters today and he's done a TON in the last three days.
Front frame horn was bent on the passenger side and has been straightened (it was over about 1/2 in which would explain my bumper alignment issues.) He was extremely impressed with the body - not a LICK of rust anywhere. Even the window pillars are perfect. Almost the whole car has been sanded with some minor dings repaired. Glass is out (going to replace both front and rear glass since I have the chance) Since we're doing a color change, the panels are coming off to do jambs and inside the doors. Snapped a few shots in the shop. Most interesting thing was this GM tag we found inside the fender. It's an original GM replacement. Based on the sanding, he assumes the car has had only 1 paint job. Based on the bent frame horn and the replaced fender, our guess is that the car had a small accident at some point, fender replaced and car re-painted. A pretty minor issue Door gaps have been adjusted and a hinge rebuild kit was ordered since we have such great access to the hinges - might as well tighten them up. It's great to see such fast progress! He said it would take just over a month, and I believe him! https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130409_004.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130409_003.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130409_002.jpg |
Corellian-
I'm with you on the Verdoro green. I have always wanted a 68 Verdoro green with black interior. Never could make up my mind if I would have wanted it with a black vinyl roof or not. I would take one either way. I do like your interior choice though. I like your stable of cars also. My daily driver back in 1974 was a red with white stripe 74 Vega GT even though it had a 4 cylinder engine I really liked it, but wrecked it after owing it for 4 years and moved on to a new 78 Monti Carlo. My very first car was a 65 mustang and for a while when I was in the Army I had a 82 Corvette. I didn't like the cross fire engine, or it didn't like me one, as I always had trouble with it. Just thought it strange to see someone with a Vega, is yours a Cosworth by chance? Anyway nice 68 Goat you have can't wait to see how the rest of your refurbishment goes. Nice pictures by the way!! |
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He thought it was of the nicest original cars he's seen. |
Thanks Charles! I see we have similar tastes, including even the token British Roadster :)
No, my Vega' isn't a Cosworth. It's a standard '72 4-cylinder. The previous owner put all the S-10 components in it, 5-lug front and rear, to convert to a V8 but became ill. I got the car after a fantastic paint job - it's very original and complete interior, and it's going to get a 283 and a Saignaw that my friend has lying around. Should be a fun car when it's done! |
Last night when I was at the painters I picked up the inner fenders and the shroud support for a little cleaning.
Again, RustOleum to the rescue! The inner fenders were in great shape - no rust or rot. So I washed them with dawn, went over them with a ScotchBrite, then lacquer thinner, and shoot. One other trick I've developed is to heat the metal with a torch before painting. Not HOT, but if you pre-heat the metal slightly you can actually see the moisture wick away. I've found I get the best results this way - warm metal allows the paint to flow a bit better, and takes a little less time to dry. Inside I like to use Eastwoods Undercoating. This stuff is awesome. In the first place, it dries BLACK and not BROWN like the stuff you get from the parts store. Second, it dries fast. Third, you can lay it on thin (like I did here), or thicker and lumpier to match factory undercoating. The first few show them being prepped - last two nice and shiny black! https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130409_006.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130410_001.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130410_003.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130410_004.jpg |
The upper radiator support was much easier, thanks to the media blaster. Before and after.
https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130409_007.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130409_008.jpg https://lcx8pq.bn1.livefilestore.com...130409_009.jpg |
I think you need to post a picture of your 72 Formula on this thread. :rolleyes:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ighlight=shelf |
Ha! As you can see, my shop is pretty cramped. One of the spaces is being used for a complete Van interior for the A-team van I'm working on. The Formula IS a project, so I'm not doing any damage. I was in the process of stripping it down for paint when I got the GTO, so it's on hold. Trust me, I don't tread the finished ones like that :)
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That's a great looking car. If I am ever fortunate enough to find another GTO in that condition, I won't do anything to it but drive it. Love the patina.
Of course, the hood scoops are a dead giveaway that it has been painted at some time in it's life. You are the only person I've ever seen on these forums that changed from an original color to Verdoro. Very unpopular nowadays but I like it myself....probably not as much as April Gold though. I can understand being different though. One of my all time favorites is Mayfair Maize. |
You guys are starting to worry me about this color change. Why is Verdoro unpopular? Too common? Ugly in person?
It's hard to explain online, but I don't desire to change the car that much from original. The interior color limits what I can do. And I really did want a green car. But I wouldn't feel right turning into something completely different... One of the reasons I liked this car was because it was a little different, and since it needed paint anyway this color change seemed like a slight variation... |
Don't let them talk you out of it - it's THE color for 68 and stunning when done correctly.
BTW - we prefer to call it Voodoo Green around her - cue the Hendrix......;) |
Paint isn't permanent, but it takes a lot of time and money to reverse. I think it's funny that you are hesitant to cut a hole in the hood for the tach but have little reservations about changing the color. To me that's a much more severe modification.
My sense is you'd probably regret repainting it gold so make it however you like. Build your dream car and enjoy it. However, be mindful of the consequences if you plan on selling it down the line. My two cents is Voodoo Green cars are harder to sell and command a lower price because it's a common and polarizing color. An interior change is easier and cheaper to revert than a paint job. Regarding the green, find out what brand of paint they are using. I made the mistake of not asking for a test spray before they painted my car assuming it would be "close enough". It looks good, especially in the sun, but it's not exactly the glowing Voodoo Green I was after. I believe PPG is considered the best in terms of accuracy. Here's my old thread when I was making up my mind on the color of my car. Towards the end I started cataloging the various incarnations of Verdoro Green. I don't think I've ever seen two that are the same. So if you go with green, don't park next to another one at a car show ;) http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1339366276 |
Thanks Ken.
Re: Paint vs. Hole. I know it's my own weird mind thing. To me, it's not an expense thing it's a destructive thing. I think saying to someone - *every* piece of this body is original, untouched virgin GM sheet metal is pretty compelling. That will be an absolutely true statement. Not even a patch. However, changing color my be expensive, but if it's not the ORIGINAL paint (which mine isn't), then a color change is no big deal if you're a purist. Just about every car has had a repaint - but finding a car where there hasn't been a SINGLE fix to the body? That seems unusual. That's why I'm hesitant to cut the hood. I know my painter uses PPG. I was looking at all the samples online and showed him a car color I wanted him to target. But I've noticed that too - some are a very beautiful metallic color, and others look very olive-drab. I've also noticed that in '69 the color code changed, as did the name "Verdoro Green Metallic", and every Voodoo green car I've seen I really like is a 69 for some reason. That link just pulls up a picture, not a thread. Can you send me the thread link again, I'd be interested in reading it. |
Oops, here's the thread I meant to reference.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=691502 That pic illustrates my point though. My car is on the right, my buddy's is on the left and they are both Verdoro but different brands of paint. Big difference. |
Yes, I found it by searching all your posts :)
I found this link site one of the threads and created this link. It's clear there is some sort of difference between the 67/68 Verdoro Green and the 69/70 version, depending on what manufacturer you use. http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcod...?color=Verdoro Green&tditzler=2095&rows=50 Year Paint Color Name Code GM Code Ditzler PPG Dupont Acme Rogers Martin Senour Sherwin Williams 1968 Verdoro Green Q WA3771 43745 4947LH, 4947DH 5557 4380 3028 1969 Verdoro Green 73 WA3771 2095 5066LH, 5066AH, 5066DH 5717 4380 2612 Not sure if this table will come out, but all but Martin Senour have different codes for 68/69. And I've noticed online (again, monitors, cameras and time of day all matter), but generally I prefer the "lighter" version of Verdoro, and it's almost always 69 cars like this http://ultimategto.com/1969/69h_00276_3.jpg or this http://ultimategto.com/1969/69h_00323_1.jpg vs. 68 cars http://ultimategto.com/1968/68h_00350_5.jpg or this http://ultimategto.com/1968/68h_00269_1.jpg I'm not saying one is better, but there is definitely a difference and if you search 68 Verdoro Green vs. 69 Verdoro Green, you see this trend. I'm FOR SURE going to have my painter get samples of both mixes and shoot it first before I commit... |
I hope you don't think I was trying to talk you out of the color change or out of VooDoo. I personally think it's a great color and it was obviously VERY popular in 1968 and 1969. It's just not popular now.
Like I said, I love Mayfair Maize and hardly anyone even likes that color much less love it. I'd say my least favorite color on these cars is white...and even that looks great with the right interior color....like red for instance. Go for it! PS- Out of the photos above, the first one looks most correct and the second one least correct.... to my untrained eye. |
i wouldn't cut the hood or add a spoiler or put TA fender vents on it .
If it were a 4spd 3.90 car i'd want a tach in the dash or a rev limiter . If a green machine is what you've been wanting - do it for yourself . Good info from these guys on the pros and cons . The color schemes in and out you have planned are devalue'ing the car . Because its a great virgin factory combo . But that hit doesn't come until you sell . Between now and then , you'll get that much in satisfaction values by it being the car that you see in your mind - when you look out in the driveway. The eye of the beholder is Job #1 if its a real keeper. |
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You can't go by cars that have been painted - because lots of them have been done wrong. All sorts of variables can effect the final color.
Here is an original paint 68 endura I pulled off a parts car in the early 90's and put on my RA I/Auto GTO - that's the color you're shooting for. That's the color we're all shooting for! ;) http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...0&d=1365859380 That valence was perfect too until I brought it home and a buddy took off the rear straps then told me to pull the trailer forward - you can guess what happened next. :rolleyes: |
Still friends?
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Thanks much! My painter is going to look up both the PPG numbers that show up for Verdoro green, and he'll paint samples if we have to.
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Verdoro green is a color that has to be seen in person IMO. As stated before, the color is a bit different depending on the brand of paint used among other things. It's also a tough color to photograph because it changes quite a bit depending on how much direct sunlight is hitting it. On a bright sunny day at noon the gold tint comes out and gives it more of an olive appearance, but at dusk it looks more like a medium/dark green.
I wasn't wild about the color when I first bought my car and considered a color change at some point, but I very quickly grew to like it (I get a lot of compliments on it too). It may have been the most popular color in 68/69, but it's also the most popular color to change. I rarely see another Verdoro green car when I attend the occasional car show with mine. P.S Add the hood tach. I think it really adds a little something to the looks of the car which I why I added one to my '70 Lemans Sport. Scott http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...GTOhood013.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...stripe2003.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...stripe2005.jpg |
Scott - see my other thread on Verdoro green. Do you happen to know a couple things - first what brand of paint did your painter use? Second, do you know what number he used from that brand?
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The car was painted by the previous owner and I decided that I wanted to add the GTO hood and wing to my Lemans - the body shop had a hell of time trying to match the color. He painted up test panels using the two most common brands of paint and they didn't match the color that was on the car. The weird thing was that from one angle the test panels looked like a dead-on match, but if he rotated the panel to a different angle it looked completely different. For example: he had me stand about 15 feet away from the driver's side of the car and held both test panels over the hood and they both looked the same, but when he rotated both panels from the hood down to the fender they looked like three different colors. Something to do with the type of metallics used by the different paint manufacturers in each brand of paint and the way they reflect light from any given angle, he said. He eventually was able to find the right brand of paint and matched the hood to the rest of the car perfectly. Unfortunately, I do not know what brand of paint he eventually used. I was just relieved that he found the "correct" color because having the hood not match the rest of the car would have looked terrible and would have driven me nuts. I probably would have had the whole car repainted. I could ask them if they still remember what paint/mix was used. Like I stated earlier, I'm pretty sure it's not a match to the original GM factory Verdoro green, but I really do like the color a lot... whatever it may actually be. Scott |
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Love the lemans with the hood tach! I have a GTO hood i was thinking about adding, and I thought about the hood tach too, but you just made up my mind!
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