TCI 6x
 

Anyone have problems with the TCI 6x. My gripe is that there is no engine braking on downshift. It just freewheels until the roadspeed/rpm matches the selected lower gear. Makes a paddle shifter useless for its intended purpose.

First I have ever heard of this trannie.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-...e-use-one.html

Ken, others say the same. Apparently this is the way that they are made.

Wait, UPDATE, see one guy's post a little ways down on that thread:

There may also be a setting that unlocks under X tps input, usually 2-4%. That can be set to 0 if desired. But that effects overall mpg, fyi.

A lot of controllers don't lock up unless you're in drive or overdrive (3 or OD). You can select 'Towing Mode' to overcome this, if the option is there. Some require a manual switch to select towing mode.

I would have to look at the controller manual to figure out if any other options are available to allow for engine braking. Might be able to call tech support and see if they can make suggestions too.
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You should probably call support...

TCC Lockup / Forced TCC Lockup
The TCU locks up the torque converter clutch during cruising conditions for improved fuel economy
and to allow the transmission fluid to cool. In order for the TCC to lock, several conditions must be
met:
- Transmission fluid warmed up
- Transmission above 3rd gear (unless transmission fluid is overheated)
- Vehicle speed above user adjustable minimum (see MIN TCC LOCK setting)
- Throttle above idle position
- Throttle below user adjustable maximum (see MAX TCC TPS setting)
NOTE: TCC lockup can be completely disabled if desired by entering an unobtainable speed for the
MIN TCC LOCK setting. The vehicle would then always be below the minimum speed for TCC
lockup.
There is also a Forced TCC Lockup mode. When the TCC APPLY wire is grounded, the TCC will
lock without the normal requirements being met. The only conditions that must be met are in place to
prevent stalling if this feature is accidentally turned on or left on:
- Transmission above 1st gear
- Vehicle speed above 10 mph


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HWY: Called tech support first. Stated there is no engine braking on downshift. was adamant to being rude.The trans is at Machinehead Powersports in Austin TX. , behind the ALum. 535 I did 2 years ago. Kevin (crocie jr) has tried many ways to make it happen, but i will direct him to this post. Check out my post on the TCI transmission website-Basically "we never said it would have engine braking."

Yeah, more I think about it, it would probably also require valve body mods on top of forced lock up. Best I could suggest would be talk to Jakeshoe, see if he has any suggestions/solutions. I know he makes a trans brake, and has intimate knowledge of the 4L80E valve bodies. You can PM him here, or go to his website and grab his contact info:

http://www.jakesperformance.com/

I know he also does a full manual valve body, so maybe it's possible to do a combination in order to get trans braking on decell.

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Jakeshoe "just up the road' above the Dallas -Ft. Worth area in North Texas.

http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...ed-Valve-Body/

At least as far as what these dudes say you would need a modded valve body with an additional solenoid to have true engine braking. That is one of the little hang ups I have about 4l80e. PTCS is supposed to have the Mercedes Benz of controllers though and can control anything you could want to adjust from the controller stand point compared to some cheaper although more straight forward and simpler modules out there.

You can also turn your trans into a 5 or 6 speed. 6 speed would be best with different gears though. I see no real reason to not go 5 if you are already getting the VB but 6 sure seems sweet to me if the money was there.

4L80Es which the 6X is based from does not have engine braking in stock form and people that buy chevy trucks for the first time with the 4L80E think the tranny is broken when in reality it is how the Hydramatic division designed it to save fuel by letting the engine drop back to idle in a coasting situation.

Jake probably can tell you in a few seconds how to change the electric or hydraulic programing to enable engine braking if it is possible to attain it. He also has a full manual valve body conversion to make the tranny semi-automatic that might include engine braking in it's features.

Totally exhausted with the trans. I run a business. I have over 100 hrs Fing with it, with no pay. As far as the handheld, I have tried all combos I can think of. Not that there is more I havnt. I need an absolute here. Install so and so's valve body and it works. Or, hook these wires up and it works. I hate to say it but I will do a few more hours of work on this trans if I can be assured the end result will be what my customer is expecting. The tech department needs to realize they rep TCI as a whole. The condescending and rude comments from multiple folks over there, will make me reconsider all future purchases from TCI. They know it doesnt engine brake and have a "what do you want to do about it" mentality. Never have I felt, from any of the tech team, that we were going to work together to find an ending to this nightmare. Good news is I just installed a Art Carr 2004r in a 70 camino I built (408 Dart 525hp) and it works as advertised. Played with the TV 1 time and havnt touched it since. Makes me and my shop look real good. The TCI trans has my customer wondering how I wipe my ass in the morning. Not a good feeling.

That's a shame, and certainly no way to do buisness. I do believe that attitude/behavior will come back around to bite them, blows me away people don't understand that. Maybe call and talk to management, and express your dissatisfaction, I'm sure they would appreciate the feedback. Hopefully your customer comes to an understanding as well, and see that you did everything within your power to recify the situation. Good luck with that, hate hearing stories like this...

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UPDATE: The trans is DOA. was sent back to TCI because of slipping(300-400 miles). was told it was "burnt out" AND they had the downshift problem solved. Turned out to be a lie.. The trans lasted another 50 mi. The car won't move. Go to the TCI forums and input 6x in the search box.

You need to visit with Mark at Bowler Transmissions. The 80e and its variants did not have engine braking. I've never heard of a way to force it. The guys at Bowler had a 4L60e road race auto tranny that did have engine braking. Not sure how robust it was. They could fill you in.

http://bowlertransmissions.com

Also visit with Steve at Twist Machine. They are good people. Maybe he can offer some insight.

http://twistmachine.com

Wow. Really sorry to hear about your experience(s), I hate hearing stuff like this. Hope you get that all ironed out.

What is the specific app? Maybe there's an alternative selection that would provide the features required?

Holy moly-b lube those Bowler trans' are expensive!

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Well we really can't throw transmissions at it till we find one that works. The TCI pkg. is trans , bell, converter, controller, flexplate, paddle shifter, and more to the tune of $8200 plus installation plus un installation, plus installation of the next trans. The trans has a lifetime warr. but TCI won't touch the labor or shipping. Kevin ate the last removal and re-installation.

Bowler builds for the high end pro-touring car set. Most of them have stupid money and he charges accordingly. But he gets great reviews on his stuff.

I have the red box TCI controller on my factory 4L80e and have never actually looked for a manner to lock up the torque converter for engine braking. I'm about to recalibrate the TPS since I installed new heads and changed up the brackets so I might poke around looking for that while I'm in there with the laptop.

The newer controllers are designed for a dumbed down user interface so even if I find anything I'm not sure it would translate to your setup. Support at TCI should be the ones to help. I was fortunate enough when I was setting mine up to have a man from their staff who actually came to my house and helped me get 80e working. Great young man but he's no longer with them. Their loss.

Apparently there is a function to force torque converter lockup via the software I have. That said, I have concerns that forcing the lockup under heavy load of engine braking at the track might make short work of your converter and said transmission. i'll ask around about it.

This from Steve at Twist:

"While you should enable the per gear settings to get the most of the lock up clutch, you will still only have engine braking with the mechanical gear selector in "3". The trans itself is not locked up without that overrun clutch in the trans engaged."

I've never tried this personally so travel at your own risk.

UPDATE: Just got permission fromTCI to send trans back for a full refund. I'll post update when it happens.

Jakeshoe posts here sometimes at Jake's performance has a manual valve body for the 4L80s.
http://jakesperformance.com/Transmissions.html

A few thoughts,
A 4L80E DOES have engine braking in stock form.
You will not experience it in the OD or 4th gear position because as stated the trans must be in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd to bring on the over-run clutch pack, which gives engine braking.

The overrun clutch pack can not be engaged while the OD pack is on.

To make a 4L80E a 6 speed it requires shifting the OD clutch on to overdrive each gear. If you do this, you could only have the over-runs on in 1st, 3rd, and 5th gears of the 6 available to provide braking in only those gears.

The "4th" gear which would be 2nd over, has very little ratio change to 5th, which would be direct or 3rd on a stock unit, even when using alternate wider ratio planetaries.

So TCI likely disabled the over-runs completely when they designed their VB. VERY POOR design.

I have said since the beginning that making a 4L80E a 6 speed was a waste of time and a good trans. It takes a reliable asynchronous shifting trans and makes it a synchronous shift POS that is overusing the overdrive clutch pack and reliant on a program to make it shift properly.

I've spoken with Ken about this as I recall.

I get asked almost weekly to build a 6 speed version of a 4L80E and I will NOT do so.

Jakeshoe, this is and was the prob with this tranz. On the last go around with TCI and the rebuilt 6X, I thought there may have been engine breaking in some gears but was considered to random to tell for sure. They claimed to have the engine breaking issue solved. But seems physicaly impossible after reading your post. It shifted well for about 50 miles after the rebuild. Then began to act strange, and not move at all. 700lb/ft at 3600rpm WILL find the weak link.

one of the mustangmags did a tci 6x on a big power build they did, trans didnt work out well at all

this thread just goes to show, how some suppliers conveintly leave out important details of operation of their latest greatest whisbang doomafachi, they are selling, its pathetic, been seeing this alot last 10 years

Jake: First, I'd like to thank you for the conversation and info imparted to me a while back. I found out that TCI does some internal mods ( the drilling of new passages in the case) which prevents a PCS controller from being used. The option at that point would have been to Re-case the trans with a stock case ( to be able to re-use the expensive 2.90 low gear set) and use the PCS 5spd controller. Of course that voids the lifetime warr. from TCI. It's almost fortunate the trans failed again, so that a full refund could be had.
Any recommendations from you on a trans? Kevin (Crocie jr.) and I were thinking about a 2004r from Art Carr. No disrespect to you , but I have known Art for 35 yaers. I for one have had trouble believing a 200 could hold up to big torque , but then there are the Buick GNs as proof. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Car is a 78 TA with a 535 inch alum KRE that makes 600 lbs @ 3000rpm and 690 lbs @ 4400 rpm. Has a 3.50 9"

I'm not Jake but get a properly built 4L80e and forget the six speed. Then you'll be happy.

What he said!

I'm a big fan of the 200-4R when compared to a 700 and it can be built as a strong little unit, but I would consider it a maintenance item behind a 535 cid engine.

So Rat,you say we actually had engine braking from the paddle shifter and didn't notice ??

No offence to you but...

Unless you have built one, and it works AND survives, you are just regurating the technical side of things with no proof, kind of like a ad in hot rod for TCI.

Do you build transmissions for a living?

Would you warentee a 6sp 4L80e?

The issue is, they took a 4sp auto, and are using the computer to do most of the work to make it a 6sp, rather than design a correct 6pd trans.

Think about it, the 4L80e, is basicly a TH400 with overdrive, very tough transmission, and been proven over the years. (from what, the 1960's?)

But then using the overdrive pack applied in different stages to get a 5-6sp, just does not make sence, if you have ever had one apart, really looked at it, and have a half-arse understanding how it works.

This 6X approach from TCI reminds me of why I never liked the whole "gear splitting" nonsense from GV. Put a high quality, properly matched torque convertor in front of a 4L80 (4 speed) and I would expect it to outperform the busy-body 6X.