GTO Conv opinion to buy
 

OK folks, looking at a matching number 69 auto trans GTO Conv in the fine shade of brown with a white top. 45 thou original miles?} solid solid body , but average paint. Price 26 grand. What do you guys think? If I buy it and have it repainted, im sure to change the color.

I used to own a expresso brown 69 GTO. That's too much to pay if it needs to be painted.

AGreed. Price a repaint today. wow.

Hey guys want to check out the car ? Go to Don Sitts used cars in Cuyahoga Falls Ohio

Don't change the paint- you will be glad you left it as is. The Expresso Brown is an authenticity that you will not replace with retail red. Take it from a guy who made that mistake.

Does NOT need a repiant. if it is MN then a great price. Maybe can be had for 24K

http://www.donsitts.com/temps/detail...chvkid=1481023

http://www.donsitts.com/cars/dsa/dsa-7705_6.jpg

You will get 100 times more "thumbs up" then when driving the ubuiquitous red sports car or whatever "popular" color is currently "in."

It will look like a REAL GTO from the 60s

If I keep it brown Ill make sure to bc/cc it to bring out a nice deep shine. Something I could live with. No "retail red" for me. Turquise maybe, or white, but no red. I hada 68 off of Don, and Im sure I can get him to deal. Thanks for bringing it up in the thread, i didnt know how to do it. Saleman told me a repaint is necesary for show.

car is a ragtop., not a coupe

69 GTO
 

Black if you want to change color!! nothin better but hard to clean!! macco has 500.00 deal this month scott!!

Does Macco have anything cheaper than 500 bucks? By the way , have you seen it Fred?

By no means am I an expert, but that looks like a pretty nice car for the money. Two years ago, I was in the market for a 69 convertible and that is nicer than most I looked at in that price range. You couldn't bring a rough convertible to that condition for the asking price, and it surely wouldn't be numbers matching with low miles. If the car looks as good in person as it does in the pictures, I'd say make an offer. Just be sure to give it a real close look from top to bottom to make sure someone didn't put lipstick on a pig.

I agree, Expresso brown is a great classy color on a GTO.
Forget about retread red color change.

Back in 68 Pontiac had a color called Nightshade green, almost a black green. Is it possible to tint Expresso a little to the darker side without "changing the basic color"? In other words, not too drastic?

As an owner of two cars in Expresso I can agree it is a beautiful color, I think they were copying the late 60's Mercedes brown which is almost identical. It looks especially nice with the parchment interior and ivory top on a convertible. (My Bonneville has the gold interior and the combo is not as nice).

However... the reality of that color is the effect on price and speed of sale. The simple fact that a dealer is asking only mid 20's for what looks to be a rather nice original GTO convertible tells you everything.

On that point the car does look nice, hard to be sure from the pics but the dash details sure have that original low mileage look. Unless the car has hidden rot or collision damage it seems like a lot of car for the money (probably because its brown ;-)

Confirmed matching on Engine,trans and rear? If so,hell of a lot more money to restore and find missing parts.27.000 dollars are not gonna take you long in restoration cost.
Nice car IMO,Good Luck!

Don`t repaint it" Not many "correct" 69 verts out there now.

I guess the one code i wont have to confirm is the color {what is the code by the way} Cant imagine anyone would change a color to brown Any way thanks everyone for the advice. Always a pleasure on this Forum

69GTO
 

i was out at dons monday for car cruise and saw car. very nice car for asking price. don said it is one of the best driving cars he has ever had!! thats saying a lot!! best to keep it the way it is. not needing repaint at this time. way to nice to redo. don't try to make a concourse car out of it!!! fred

That's a pretty nice car for the money. Do not change the color. If you don't like that color find another car so you can get what you'd like to have and not mess up one that is still original. Average retail on '69 GTO Conv. is well above 26K. Also, if you could do some of the paint work yourself you can save a ton and there are multiple sources of how-to info available as well as the satisfaction you'll get from doing the work yourself.
My .02 Good Luck.

Letter code - B or number code - 61

:)

Looks like a great car!

:)

Hey Fred, thinking about trading my ws6 conv plus a little cash for it. What cha think

I think 'Car and Driver' reviewed the 69 GTO and stated that the test car was Expresso and they marveled at the color and how the only other one they had seen like it was the Mercedes. I have the article somewhere.

Nonetheless, to the original poster-I would suggest you not buy the car since you so hate the original colors. I myself have a brown one and in 1987 painted it red. Of course 25 years later I view it as the greatest mistake I ever made on a car. I was 22 years old and stupid. If you hate the color, find another car because you should never hate the color of your car, and if you repaint it differently you will hate it just as much. There are other GTOs out there. Find the black one or blue one you want, but remember- your car will never stand out as authentic and DIFFERENT than what the other 300 million people have. If you want to blend in with the rest of the nation, pick a modern color or one of the 5 colors current manufacturers paint their new cars.

As a matter of fact- a BMW or Honda in burgundy, white (now THERE is a color you don't see everyday) or silver may be the sports car you really want. But a GTO in an original color scheme seems like it makes you want to puke.

My first pontiac was a 69 Cutom s white w black top, second A body was a champane 69 Lemans with a brown top. third A body was a Primevera tan 68 COLOR changed to Meriadian Turq {June 2007 High Performance Pontiac Cover car originaly owned my Mark from Rhode Ilsand. That GTO never felt right with that color change, as nice as it was.Im gonna check out the GTO today. P.S. the 68 Gto was Don Sitts personal ride after he bought it from Mark. I bought it from Don Sitts in July 2007. Im just not a "Resale Red " kind of guy

Try to find a Primavera Beige matching numbers car today. Lots of luck. All the odd colors are generally considered "western" colors. They were popular in the rockies and west coast at the time and people on the east coast or east of the Miss for that matter poo-poo them. Personally, I view I feel they are understated and classy. Expresso is bad-ass. It says "I am a REAL GTO." and it says "I am era-correct."

Why was Verdoro so popular in 68 and 69? Because it was the ERA. The color of the car is in the DNA. Changing is such a bad thing. That is how I feel about that.

I already bemoaned my friend changing his Mayfair Maize on Gold 69 Judge to Carousel Red/Black here in the past. I know a lot of people would do that. But how many Yellow/Gold Judges are there, really? Now his car looks like a clone and if I saw him driving it and I didn't know him, I would ASSUME it was a clone. Of course if I saw a Mayfair Maize Judge coming down the road, I would stop and tip my hat to it. I would KNOW it was real.

My beige 68 was originaly delievered to Texas so I would go along "with the Western color thing". Its funny whenever I see a red Judge I also just figure its a clone. Im just a Pontiac guy on a AMC Pacer budget!

My opinion is to leave it expresso brown. It looks good and doesn't look like all the other cars.

I really like unusual colors and they stand out in a crowd.

I have a 69 two-tone paint GTO project,expresso brown with white top/gold int.

Expresso Brown is THE most underrated color for '69 GTOs. Back in the late '80's I was in a GTO club in Allentown, PA. One of the members had an Expresso Brown hardtop with a gold interior. The car was restored to perfection and was absolutely stunning.

The interior of the advertised car appears to be mostly original as well - with the yellowish tinge to the Parchment. Repro sets are way too white.

Being an OH car, my biggest concern would be what rust repairs have been done. But that car appears to be a screaming good deal from the pics. It deserves to be left it's original color - a classy, understated original goat.

That's a beautiful car. I think it would be nuts to change the color.......
that expresso brown is gorgeous especially with the parchment interior. Do we really
need any more red GTO's?

Warwick Blue with Black top and Black int.Unpopular combo?(my car)

Can`t get any large picture of the Expresso Brown car but it`s seems fine to me.Can the seller verify that it is matching,go for it.No PHS?

Expresso with gold interior is a great color combo.

Really dont think I need to see a PHS on this one. 242 on the vin,or 61 on colorline, dealer is very legitimate seller of muscle cars. I bought my 68 Gold level GTO of him a few years ago. Cant imagine anyone "Cloning a brown GTO" {let the comments on this statement begin!!!}

Great color combo and looks to be a lot of car for the money. FWIW, I would never buy a Pontiac without getting PHS docs. First...

Why spend the $60 bucks when you can just spend $25,000! Makes sense. However, YES you know it is a Goat, but do you want to be sure that the VIN wasn't from a different tag than the trim tag? Or that the trim tag was not "made up" by Trim Tags Unlimited or AG BAckeast etc? I know a guy who bought a GTO ragtop, and didn't want to buy the PHS. Later he went to sell the ragtop, and low and behold he had a GTO VIN - FROM A COUPE!!!!!!! Yeah, somewhere down the line, maybe in the 70s, someone popped a GTO COUPE VIN unto a Tempest or Lemans Body. He found out when a prospective buyer ordered the PHS, thereby saving that prospective buyer a purchase of a pig in a poke.

No one would EVER do such a thing, right?

I don't care to comment on your color thing. It is a matter of taste and we can agree to disagree. But the above is just an example of what can go wrong when one does not avail themselves of intelligence assets.

Pontiac collectors have a asset Chevy guys and most others don't: the Pontiac Historical Society. I am amazed at someone spending 20+ grand and not the prerequisite package of info for $60.00. It is often a bargaining tool as well. "Oh, the car came with an 8 Track. Now I have to go out and fetch one. Mr. Seller, will you reduce the price $500 so I can restore the car correctly?"



You seem pretty cocksure in a lot of your statements. No offense. This leads me to think you are a young man. Ask old men how they got to be old... They may say this: They got cautious.

PHS stands for Pontiac Historic Services.

Unclesamscandy, you do know that you can tell the body style from the VIN, right?
I am somewhat in agreement with red1975pacer, if there are no rare options claimed and everything seems to match up, there isn't much reason to order a PHS. Sure some guys want to know exactly how their car was equipped, but other than that...

Agree, one of the best color combos for '69 IMO. If you have any other pics of that car I'd love to see them.

At 51 years lold I have been involvedwith Pontiacs since 1981. Yea someone could clone this car, but if i have uncertainaty, I know some of the best Pontiac hobby guys in the country around here. Not "cocksure, but willing to listen to expert opinions if in doubt. Afrter all these years, the one thing I have learned is how to listen to the pros! {If in doubt}

Another expresso/gold pic.

My bad. Shouldn't post after midnight. Not that I ever hear too many acronyms like IRS, DEA, CIA, RFP, DSS, EPA, ENCON, DEC, DOA. But the beer had a decided effect on the confusion between Service and Society. I kind of like "society" better because it makes us all look classy.

Oh, I know that and you know that. Do you think the clerks at motor vehicles know that when they register the guy's car? Do you think the yahoos who did it knew that back in 1974 or whenever? See, along the way (this is one of my pet peeves) these cars were molested, abused, used, treated like whores, stripped, rebuilt, retagged, generally treated as something to beat on, and it was all done with a redneck impugnity (I can never spell that word) right outta' the Dukes of Hazard!

What I find strange is that people are so surprised when they find that they car is rebodied, restamped, rebranded, retagged, and basically retreaded . These were not the Crown Jewels of the Hungarian Kingdom. These were peoples toys that they abused at 3 in the morning after they drank 2 six packs of Bud, somewhere in the backroads o Kansas. at 125 mph. When they got wrapped around a tree and BillyBob drilled the VIN rivets to pop on a Lemans convertible that uncle Wayne had with the blown 350, everyone is shocked because he wrecked his ride while drunk back before DWI was considered a serious crime???? So 4 owners later, with neophyte non-collectors in the ownership chain, it isn't until someone looks closer that there is a "Hmmmmmm?"

See the thread here on the "Disinterested Owner of a Rare Car" who had the 455HO with VIN numbers on his dash different than VIN numbers on his title. Do you think the guy cared about PHS? According to the poster of that thread, he still doesn't care.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=734023&page=3

But hey, if you don't need to spend $60 then that is your choice. I understand. But when and if you get a burning, and you knew that the $60 was unaffordable, then it is what it is. If you look at that as telling you things you already know, then you really have made your mind up. All those rare options are always identifiable and easy to see, even when they have been removed. Screwholes and mounting brackets for all of them...

Why, if you already know it is a GTO? Nobody ever had a VIN tag and a trim tag be from different cars. Ever.

And if you can't tell if your tags have been tampered with, getting the PHS helps how?

My X-ray vision that helps me view the rivets under the dash sometimes goes down, and of course there is that occasional pesky seller who once in a while won't let me tear the dash pad off, or strip the front end and heater core down to read the hidden VINS. Damn them.

Wow, I never met a bunch of anti-PHS guys all in one place. You should be so lucky to be into Chevrolet SS cars! More of exist them now then in 1972!

I tell you what- If you can't beat em', then join em!

DON'T BOTHER GETTING THE PHS. Or if you get it, just buy it AFTER you buy the car!

Relax man! I am not "anti- PHS", but I don't believe you need to get it for every Pontiac you ever buy. :roll eyes: If I'm buying something that is presented as rare or low milage and correct then it is a no brainer.

In the example you're shouting about above, having PHS still will not jump out and tell you your car has been tampered with. Like I said, if you can't tell it's been tampered with before you get the PHS you probably won't after you have it either. I've seen legit cars that have had color changes, interior changes, A/C added, A/C deleted, switched to 4 speed, switched to auto, etc., etc. All PHS will tell you is what came with your VIN.

On the end of the PHS discussion is this little anecdote- I guy I know (a noted Pontiac collector) was looking for a first gen Firebird convertible for his daughter. He came across one listed close to him. He went to buy it, and since he's a big Pontiac collector he called Jim Mattison to get the PHS. Jim called him back and said "Buy the car! It doesn't matter what he's asking, buy it!" It turned out to be a 1 of 6 RAII Firebird convertible. He never would have known if he didn't get the PHS. ;)

NNNNOOOOO!!!!!
 

+1. Great 60s color and stunning with the white top and interior. If you buy it leave it OEM color...the world has enough black, red and orange GTOs....

If the car checks out and is a well maintained (i.e - no shoddy repairs in past or significant rust) 46K mile car that has original powertrain and just needs paint, with little to no body work, I think the asking price is where it should be...I would offer 22,500 with 24K being my target. That car should be 30-35K car all day long with fresh paint.

Expresso Brown
 

Paint is personal paint it whatever color turns you on its a lot of work to paint them nice the first time now what about if you have to paint again because you picked the wrong color REMEMBER THEY WERE ALL BARE METAL TO START

hobi nails it!

Of course, they were all GTOs to start - whether you make it a Judge is up to you.

68 red RA ragtop
 

To revive the debate on PHS and if we "need" one when buying a "242" GTO car- someone (Tom) bought a 68 ragtop GTO from Craig's List. Everyone here was mocking it for being a rusted out wreck on another thread, but one guy was running the PHS... and he found it was a RA II ragtop. He bought the car when others didn't want to pop on the $80 bucks.

This guy continuously turns up Judges, HO cars, RA cars when others think they know enough by seeing a "242"... and pass them by- so you tell me what a rip off the PHS is and what a waste of time it is.

I rest my case.

Tom bought a RAI convertible.

When buying a incomplete car PHS is very useful unless your spending 1500 or less like Tom did. For 1500 {or less} Tom was probably gonna buy that car without the PHS anyway. Nice score, but Tom has alot of work to do on that one. Lets not forget that Tom stated in the other thread that the seller was wrong about the gearing, which threw people off. The seller claimed 355 when the reality was 433 {or close]. Give Tom credit, for checking it out more then anyone else.