Pontiac Owners Unite! This contest should get your attention.
 

Here's a fact that most of you are probably not aware of; literally 90% of all the popular automotive forums were bought out by two very large investment groups over the last 10 years. Originally, most of them were all run by automotive enthusiasts. Chevelle guys created Chevelle forums, Camaro guys created Camaro Forums, Mustang guys created Mustang forums. I don't know about you, but it would seem to me like we should try our best to keep our allegiance within our own communites. The more we reinvest our resources in our own own hobby, the better off we will be. PY was started by Pontiac enthusiasts, is still owned by the same Pontiac enthusiasts and has always been moderated by long time Pontiac enthusiasts. The big internet .coms didn't get to us. These big guys have gobbled up all automotive forums in site and have literally turned into a monopoly. Advertising on those forums increased by as much as 250%! Eventually we all pay for that, no? And if you think there is a lot of politics going on here at PY? Take a good look around the big automotive forums. Most of these forums communities rely on their advertisers for their sole source of revenue. It's the only reason they exist! So if an advertiser pays good money for a banner on a forum and a member trashes that advertiser, you don't see much patience with that on those forums. Member comments and topics get deleted all the time. It's heavily 'Advertiser favored' On PY, take a look around as well. We rarely pull a topic. We NEVER pull a topic for political reasons. We've been threatened and sued numerous times. Heck, your host PY has been trashed many times right here on their own forums. Yet those topics are still available for all to see. We've also lost prominent advertisers because we wouldn't bow to the pressure of deleting unflattering threads or posts just because 'we're an advertiser'. Since 1991 when PY created the very first online Pontiac Forum community, PY has tried very hard to be all about doing the right thing for the Pontiac hobby with this venue. Our value system has not changed in 22 years! And we think because of this, many of our members have adopted this same philosophy and have both supported and helped us be even more successful. And the reason we haven't had to change is because we DON'T rely on advertising dollars for success. Sure we have some advertising revenue but we're not going to retire on it any time soon! It barely keeps the Forums lights on. :) Rather, we choose to let our customer's support generate the product sales that covers us for these forums. And we choose to do everything possible to resolve customer-supplier issues even if it has to sometimes be publicly displayed initially in an unflattering way.


So why the rant? Our hobby is starting to contract ever so slowly. We all need to pull together because in large numbers, there is strength. There is still an awful lot of Pontiac Forums out there. Some of them are tailored to our Late Model Pontiac brethren. Some of them are pretty good. And quite honestly, yours truly was a sleep at the wheel for a few years and I didn't do everything I should have to welcome the new Pontiac performance models into the fold. Yes, they are corporate cars. No they don't quite have that same 'something' as their predecessors. But they ARE the last of the bloodline of Pontiac and we own them because they still connect us in some way to the originals that sparked the Musclecar revolution. I now proudly own a beautiful low mileage 2001 TA, a 2005 GTO and we just finished putting together a Pro-charged G8 GT and I absolutely love driving each one of them! Don't worry, I haven't totally sold-out on my roots. In our showroom sits an awesome 1977 Bandit TA that emerges onto the streets each Spring. And lurking in the warehouse is my original 1967 GTO Sedan that just needs a little tender loving care to return to the streets. Anyway, I digress.... we're not asking you to abandon those other forums. However, we are asking that you encourage, cajole, coerce, convince etc that there needs to be a SINGLE place where all Pontiac enthusiasts can hang out and call HOME. And we're saying that there isn't a better place to do that than right here at the PY Online Forums.

Thus the main reason you see an all new comprehensive Late model section of the forums. Just like in 1991, we've just setup a very nice venue but it's up to all of you to take advantage of it.

Just to make sure you all see the importance to the hobby we feel this is, soon we'll be announcing a contest. We're finalizing plans for it to be a 'significant' contest with 'significant' prizes. It will blow away any of our previous contests and long time members will remember that a few of them were fairly substantial! The contest will center around participation and there will be an important Membership Drive component to the contest. So if you want to do something good for the hobby while dramatically improving your chances of winning the contest, start planning on how you would bring in some new blood and how you can personally contribute information that will make PY an even better Pontiac community than it already is. It's a win/win for everyone.

Chris

Thank you Chris. I know I've enjoyed the last 12ish years I've hung around here.....free of charge.

Bring it on!

The hobby is a monster now, not like it was 20 or even 10 years ago. At times not so much fun.

But the Pontiac sector has proven to be unique and fortunately isolated from it. Just go to POCI or GTOAA or Norwalk or any number of the Pontiac specific shows and you do see a difference compared to more commercial type shows...(no names sorry.)

Yes there is competition and "one-upsmanship" on the show field and drag strip. But it's not about malice at the shows I go to, as opposed to some of the other stuff.

Yes there are 6 figure Pontiacs out there...Fortunately not many, so that element hasn't invaded us yet.

Was it nice to have every GTO a $50k car, yes and no, but with the prices falling, I think some of the fun gets back into the hobby, because you look at it as an expense and not a potential to cash in. (just restore a GP and see just how much of an expense it can be....)

that being said, there might be a day the PY gets an offer they can't refuse...And we can't nor shouldn't blame Chris when that day comes. After all who remembers the shop in North Wales and how far his business has come? Just spend a lifetime building a business or career and not get rewarded? Who does that? Can't blame you CC, "The U" costs $$$$$$$

I think we need to appreciate the uniqueness of the "most popular orphan" status that Pontiac has, and continue to enjoy our cars, regardless of your style...Racer, restorer, "Fast and Furious" rice-type cars, lowriders, rats, corporate block stuff etc.

Times change, I currently hate what goes on in my business but you have to roll with it. Same with the hobby.

As for the internet home of grass roots Pontiac...Yep we know where it is!

Here's the thing, I hope I didn't make it seem like this was all about me because after all these years and after putting 3 kids through college, it's just the opposite. Personally, I finally feel comfortable with where I'm at and over the last several years I have tried to focus a lot of my time on both preserving and extending this hobby. Although there is some potential financial gains that can arise from this new effort, the risk is quite high and the market is rather small. So it's not so much about making more money, it's about making the same amount of money longer. :) If I was looking for a place to make a lot more money at my age, I could look in a dozen 'other' better directions.

btw, you know they say you can't take it with you when you go? Well, if I were to 'go' somewhere, I'm taking the PY Forums with me! It's like the first car I ever owned. It's not for sale. :)

:thumbup:

I never thought about the issues that are mentioned. Didn't realize corps were buying up forums to promote their products. I have seen the actions you mention on non-auto forums. Have found a lot of very good advice here and very helpful people. It is a shame that speculators have invaded the muscle car market and drove prices through the roof. Saw this happening the 2nd or 3rd yr Barrett jackson was on Speed channel. As with everything, cost of replacement parts have been rising for decades. Fact of life I'd say.
Won't stop me from restoring & driving my GTO. Besides it is how I met my wife of 37 yrs. cruising in the 70's. Just happy this forum exists for all to enjoy & benefit from. Thanks to all involved at the beginning and those that keep it going.

Nice work. I always thought that a parts supplier that has it's own forum was a great idea.

I'd like to say thanks again, Chris, for a fantastic forum.
I have linked your site (and Pypes) on my website for a long time.
I also recommend it for anyone I talk to.

The later year model forums will probably become a big hit, but it will take some time for people to 'migrate' here. More than likely once they see the esprit de corp here and the volume of knowledge available from the members, it'll grow and flourish.

:)

www.PerformanceYears.com is # 1

Looking forward to the new contest, Chris.

And for the record, I have always greatly appreciated this community you have created. PY has certainly been a "giver" all these years and I have never cared for any of the bashing going on.

PY is not only the #1 Pontiac forum it is the #1 automotive forum. The Pontiac experts that post here are second to none. A friend of mine just bought his 5th collectable Pontiac and he told me this place motivates him and that he never would have these cars if it weren't for PY. I personally have met so many GREAT people here that I now call friends. Thanks Chris and here's hope for many more good years here on the PY forums. Craig Ehrlich

Well in the process of planning my restore, I made a spreadsheet to determine cost of needed parts against Performance Years, Ames, Year One, OPGI, NPD and Inline. Performance Years came out as the most reasonable and availability. Now they weren't necessarily the cheapest for each part but I didn't want to deal with 2 or 3 suppliers and overall the stuff I read about them made me choose PY over the others.

That's right, I have also made many friends through this forum and the PY BBQ. More than a few I would consider pretty good friends.

Agreed! Let's support PY, and I too appreciate the efforts to keep these forums alive. Thanks, Chris!

:)

There are other Pontiac sites ?? This is the only one I visit on a very regular basis. I've not only learned a lot but made a lot of great friends on here. Anytime I'm discussing Pontiacs with anyone for the first time I ask them if they are familiar with Performance Years as a vendor and the best damned Pontiac site on the world wide internet.
Let me add my thanks to Chris and PY for all they do for our hobby.

Jim

PY, I have also helped out besides just ordering parts but also I [like others] have had Spotts Performance build 2 engines for me,I am guessing since his shop is just down the road from PY and he has an intrest in PY that some of the parts for me he got from PY.

:beerchug:

Thanks For All You Do PY! http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=736520

This is coming from a 20 year old who's first car was a 75 GP. I love the PY forums and will support them until I die. I've gotten so much help and learned everything I know here. Without this forum I wouldn't know how to turn a wrench

I remember back in 04 or 05, That PY posted a photo of the largest order of parts that thay had ever gotten, Do some of you remember that? Thank you PY and STAFF for all that you do for us. Randy

J.L, I appreciate this a lot but again PLEASE don't take this as a plea for business! PY is doing better than ever! We're fine!!!! The hobby is fine! This is about how the hobby is going to look in 10 or 15 years from now.

For our classic Pontiacs, agreed. However, there's at least 2 popular G8 forums, 2-3 LM GTO forums and 2-3 Late model Trans Am forums. I think all but 2 of them are owned by .com companies. There is some overlap between the forums but not enough. All these separate communities dilutes our hobby.

Chris, you could make the business even better by getting parts that only other vendors have and helping improve parts that are not correct. Now that would stir up business for PY and help the hobby. Most of us can name parts you don't have and what needs to be fixed. But it's you and you alone that has to get involved to do this. You is da Boss, don't pass it off to someone else.

This is a good point and one I'd like to address but I fear it would end up jacking this thread because there is so much to talk about in regard to the reproduction of Pontiac parts process. Start a new topic about this and I'd be glad to participate.

I read a bunch of forums. But PY is one of my favorites for the all the reason Chris mentioned above. Thank you PY

I don't have a wealth of Pontiac info to share, I usually ask the questions, but I must say this site is the best I have been a member of. I am a moderator on another forum that was bought out (11,000+ posts, lots of friends made through it, ect...) and I hardly ever visit the site anymore. I usually only go there to review reported posts and delete them/ban members for harassment if necessary. It just is not the same since it was bought out. The new admins like to promote the junk products they sell.

Since I plan on having my GTO till I die (only 23 now) I will be a member here for quite some time.

Thanks for the insights, Chris. I wasn't aware of the corporate buying of forums.

PY has always been home to me.
Thanks Chris for allowing us to be here.

I have met Chris multiple times and you can tell this is a passion for him. That's what keeps it alive, we all have that same passion. It's in our blood. I too have made plenty of friends on here and recommend this site to ever Pontiac person I meet. It's a great site with great people. Thanks Chris

Mazz

I like PY and PY forums just the way it is today,good people tend to draw good people. I try and spread the word on PY anytime I can. I drove by a local garage the other day and saw a decent '69 Firebird sitting in the lot in my truck was a PY catolog I had mistakenly got at the Py show so I made a u-turn and gave it to the shop. Anyway I wasn't aware of the corporate buy out's either. Thanks for the insight Chris.

DITTO

What would be the best forum? Let me know. Then I'll just copy what I said above for the start. ;) Send me a PM as to where and I'll get it up and running. :)

This is a thread I started a while back. about BAD REPOPS




http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...t=reproduction

Lobby is fine. That's where a couple of other general 'reproduction' topics are.

Just so you don't think I'm sour grapes and making this stuff up. A lot of you guys are probably members of at least several of these forums. And, again, I'm not saying you shouldn't be. Just trying to get everybody up to speed on what is happening behind the scenes.

http://www.autoforums.com/

http://www.automotiveforums.com/

http://www.internetbrands.com/ib/autonetwork/

Will do Chris. And I ask that it be made a Stickie so it doesn't get lost. ;)

And Norwood, a link will be added to what you started back in February. Chris or a moderator can add more to the start or just add them to the topic.

I have ordered all my '68 Firebird parts from either Ames or PY. After attending Charlotte Auto Fair and Pontiacs in the Park over the years and being the benefactor of what PY has done for the hobby, they are my #1 choice. Not to mention the cool 2k I won in their last big contest :D Their customer service has been second to none. (and I can be pain in the arse...)

Since buying my GTO new in 2006 I have been a member of one of those other forums. It definitely changed character some when it was bought out. It is still a good place to hang out, but I do miss the good ole days. I would be more than happy to promote this forum on there, but the post would likely disappear :confused2

So Chris, when is this big reveal? Don't be a contest tease.

I've wanted a project vehicle for over 20 years. I can't tell you how many people told me I should get a Chevelle or a Camaro. Nothing against those cars, but I'm so I glad I bought my Lemans. Since I joined this site, I've been on it just about every single day. I don't have much to offer others, but I have learned a great deal from this site and the people on it. So I hope it never changes. I'd hate to see it tainted by outside influences.

You are correct. Your overture will get pulled once they see it. It has to be done more subtly and through chain e-mails, PM's, shows, club gatherings etc. We'll also be doing our part in various advertisements. But for success, we need everyone's participation.

Yes, I have noticed that but had no idea it was so widespread. I would get pop-up windows on another site from internetbrands claiming their ownership. I cant remember what the window wanted me to do but I always just closed it or the whole window. How annoying. :rolleyes: I also noticed that even any good mention of a non-sponsored shop or service was a closed thread in short order for that very reason.

PY forums is home to me and I have had great experiences dealing with PY sales during my 68 restoration. :usa2: And thank you for pointing out that PY is not part of that trend.

Bump!

The contest is still in the works with the finalization of the Grand Prize and rules and regulations.

Here is a sneak peek of the vendors that have already signed up to sponsor and donate items for our big contest.

Drive for 40K Contest Page

Keep checking back on this page for updated info. You do not want to miss this one...

"we are asking that you encourage, cajole, coerce, convince etc that there needs to be a SINGLE place where all Pontiac enthusiasts can hang out and call HOME. And we're saying that there isn't a better place to do that than right here at the PY Online Forums."

I feel that PY is the place. Thanks for sharing the inside story on what's going on. I am not sure how to describe it, but there is a feeling of fellowship here. I believe that the feeling is inherent in the fact that this is run by you and your staff, and reflected back at you by the regular members here who also feel it.

...does that make sense? I hope so.

Either way, thank you, Chris and the PY staff.

Aside from the knowledge I have gained,
aside from having a great company thru which to help sell my product,
to me what's truly priceless is the FRIENDSHIP that I have forged with so many because of the PY forums.

Well said Matt!

Capitalism Gone Loco
 

I appreciate the heads up about big business taking things over. However , it has been obvious for some years now. You have only confirmed my concern. In the earlier days the net was a great place to learn and to get information. Over time it has become an advertising mecca for sellers like Google, Facebook, Twitter, and others trying to make
ad revenue or sell you something. It is almost like from the minute you sign on you are being fired at with garbage by corporate America. Then when you sign back in the next day they are even waiting for you with more stuff related to what you did yesterday.

Do you ever watch all the internet Titans being interviewed. They are all asked how they are going to monetize their company. They rarely answer that they are going to sell stuff to everyone on the net. I suppose there are those that say all this activity keeps the net going and makes a living for a lot of people. True. Lets just be thankful for a company that has its heart and soul in the right place and continues to offer us a great place to enjoy. Thank you!

Chris, First off, THANK YOU for the forums, I try to visit daily. A great resource, a wealth of knowledgeable individuals, and one of the best moderated boards I've had the good fortune to participate in. Secondly, and more importantly, THANK YOU for the business of PY and supporting our cars. As was said above, we all have choices where to shop for our Pontiac parts and like most, I look around to check pricing and availability, but even if the part is a few dollars more at PY, I specifically choose to purchase from PY because YOU support the hobby with these forums. I notice and many people here notice as well. You have been and continue to be my #1 supplier of parts (my latest order shipped today). THANKS again! FBird69

Expanding the forums.
 

I love it Chris. Along with my 20 or so GTOs, ranging from 64, 65, 68,69,70,71, and 74, and a few 1974 SDs, TAs and Grand Prixs, I also own a 2004 GTO, and my 2005 daily driver. I love the 05. Gobs of power, and fantastic handling. I love my 1965 also, driving it once or twice a week. So the forums will be a great help.

Came to read this thread after getting the email. I've been aware of the big companies buying up a lot of forums. I'm registered on over a dozen forums and there are maybe 6 I try to check the latest posts on every day or two.

I'm a Pontiac nut, but I'm into pro touring types of cars and post more on those forums. The problem I see with forums specific to one make or one model is the attitudes of the so called "Purists". It happens more to me in person than on the web, but I get tired of constantly hearing how I ruined my Firebird because it has 18" wheels and a 455 instead of the stock L6. We'll see what they have to say when my 69 is done with it's turbo 6.0 lol.

There are still plenty of people out there who want a more period correct car, but more and more people want to incorporate new technology into old cars to make them safer and more fun to drive. I think the Pontiac community needs to start embracing more modern builds or people building those cars will continue to shy away from Pontiac websites and events. It will only get worse in the futures as the guys who lived during the 60s and build period correct cars for the nostalgia continue to die out. While I love Pontiac engines, I love LS engines as well, and you can't deny they're better all around. I do personally hate gen 1 small block chevy's and I do hate seeing them in a Pontiac. But I keep my mouth shut about it and I'd rather have people who own those cars getting involved in the Pontiac community than not because they don't fit the mold.

It's a great idea to add sections on here for late model Pontiacs. I currently have a 01 WS6 and a 89 GTA with a LS1/t56 swap and a few other mods. It never crosses my mind to post stuff about my newer cars on this site because it just doesn't seem to be what people are into here. The sites more specific to late models will always be the place to go for info, but hopefully having more and more sections here for the late model stuff will gradually get more people posting. I guess the one problem is, no matter what Pontiac model you have from the 70s or earlier, they are all very similar and a site like this is the best place to share info. The problem with late model stuff is that the different models are more different. A 02 TA for example has more in common with LS Camaros and Vettes than it does all the other Pontiacs of the same time frame. The LS specific sites will always be a better source for info, but hopefully this can at least be a place people come to come together as a Pontiac community.

As for the advertising. I'm surprised to find out this site doesn't make much from advertising. That makes me want to start checking you guys for more of the stuff I buy. This is a fantastic forum for older Pontiacs, and hopefully will be for newer ones in the future. Unfortunately most of what I buy is more aftermarket or custom stuff than restoration stuff. And the problem I have with all the big name restoration parts websites is that I can always find the same parts from a different source for significantly cheaper.

Just trying to give some feedback from this Pontiac guy. Hope it's helpful

www.savingpontiac.org
 

Dear Fellow Pontiac Enthusiasts, Owners & Collectors :
I would like to urge You to Please go into the following web-site & Sign The Petition To SAVE PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION !
I know that many of You are probably saying that it is over, However, A very good point was brought up in This Web-Site, & That Is "There Is Strength In Numbers" !
That is why I am asking You to please go into this web-site : www.savingpontiac.org
Please, read it & then sign the petition to SAVE PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION...
REMEMBER, TOGETHER, WE CAN SAVE PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION AND/OR
RESURRECT IT ONCE AGAIN...IT IS "NOT" OVER UNLESS WE ALLOW IT TO BE OVER !
Thanking You so much in advance, & Thank You for letting Me post My comments which may be benificial to all of Us. I welcome Your feedback.

Sincerely & Respectfully,

(66pontiaccat) Advocate to SAVE PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION