POCI Discussion
 

I am sure there are a good number of you who are members of this organization. Though that number is declining. I am interested to know everybody's thoughts on it. I applied for a board position there and am getting a run-around that is akin to something I would expect in a govt. setting. I am not looking to change the world here, but it looks to me like the numbers are unsustainable and without some younger (under 40) people coming in this thing is going to go the way of the dodo bird. I am not in the under 40 set, but I do remember it clearly.

The organization is asking for clues as to why the membership is declining, and I cited the bureaucracy as part of the problem as well as a website that was like an empty warehouse with a tech section where questions go unanswered for weeks months or never.

In thinking about the future of the organization, I was wondering if there was any interest or consideration pertaining to a collaboration with PY. This could be a benefit to both organizations as they seek to strengthen their membership and security in a world where magazines and private websites are increasingly under pressure. Not sure how this would work, but there is no way to know without some kind of dialog. There are strengths with both that could obviously benefit one another. Don't know if there is any 'history' here or not, and don't really care either. In interest of fostering the future of the hobby politics are not part of the equation - only a way to make sure we connect the knowledge with the need in keeping these bad boys on the road and shining in the sun at shows.

If folks share their experience and criticism here, it will also give them a better idea beyond the criticisms I poignantly illustrated in my re-application, which will likely land in File 13. But, that is beside the point. If they get a picture of what the problem is maybe someone more diplomatic than me will be able to help. I have just seen time and again that organizations die under their own organizational weight when that becomes more important than their original purpose. In this case that would be the joy of working on and driving Pontiacs not paperwork and parliamentary procedure.

The flood gates are now open!

Bruce: Perhaps the lack of response after 45 views says something about the interest in POCI. Hope not and would like to see a lot of responses. I dropped POCI membership years ago mainly because there was little going on that piqued my interest. Granted my interest is primarily focused on the challenging ordeal of getting a big car Poncho to go fast, I saw very few articles in Smoke Signals dealing with outside-the-box performance.
It would be a suggestion of mine that POCI broadened its horizons, especially if they are to attract the attention of the next generation {BTW: I received an Email recently from POCI to rejoin. I probably will if for no other reason then to support the hobby.}

I agree that the organization needs a shot of youth and disappointed to learn of your tribulations in trying to achieve this. I have a feeling that at that level of POCI leadership there are those who wish to maintain the status quo and thusly, their own positions.

I really like your idea of a collaboration with PY and would be willing to bet that PY would be willing to listen to the idea. There are probably many on this forum that have no idea or limited idea of what POCI is and what they do.

Have to run but I will be following this thread.

Thanks, Jim

I had joined 10 years ago and then let it drop after just a year due to the politics. Seems things haven't changed.

my .02
I have attended a wopping 2 POCI shows Bowling Green Ky and the Co vention this year in Dayton
I do not have the funds to show up on Wednesday stay until Saturday to see the cars.
I drove the 2-3 hours on Saturday Morning. by the time I arrived at both shows the swap meet was closing down and to me at least 60% of the cars had allready left.

Now for me the best show for Pontiacs is The Tri-Power Nationals in Norwalk Ohio.
I can make the drive in 5 hours and all the cars are still there Saturday.

Does not take a rocket scientist to figure which show I prefer to support.

patrick

Since I sit on the BOD of POCI I'm watching this with great interest so come on people and voice your views. Since no new Pontiacs are being produced the hobby is in the attrition stage and young people are what's going save our beloved cars and the hobby.


Great post Bruce!

Mike

Funny this comes up

I just renewed my membership after a one year lapse, but it wasnt for lack of effort.
I received a few email reminders to renew, but I couldnt remember my password.
I responded to the emails asking to renew, but never heard back. I finally found my original login info and renewed for 2 years just last night.

I was poking around the site after this and saw the facebook link...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ponti...9537?ref=br_tf

No updates since December 2012!

Of course there is a current alternate Facebook page with more info, but why have a dead facebook page at all?

This is the current one
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ponti...269105&fref=ts

The rest of the site looks like it was done by the ACA people..very old and clunky.
Tried to update my profile picture and never could...


Also agree that collaborating with PY would be awesome!

I've been a member since 1991. I think that POCI was the king in the days of print. However it did not evolve to the internet age. Many clubs have not. Whether or not that is because "this is the way it's always been done" mentality, or for some other reason, I don't know. I still get my Smoke Signals. It takes about 10 minutes to go cover to cover. Occassionally interesting cars, but limited. Last POCI convention I attended was Greenville S.C... wheneverthat was.

Exactly.

And I totally agree with Andre. The magazine does not have enough info in it or cars to grab my attention longer than that, and that is really just a waste. I'd like to see a convention in a place which is actually a destination with a purpose and or some attractions that are a little more exciting. No offense to the inhabitants of any of the prior or current venues, but they don't compare with some of the alternatives. You might get a lot more excitement in Vegas, Austin, or Orlando than in Dayton or Kansas for example. I am not suggesting these as locations, just for some perspective. How about Pontiac Michigan or Hershey or some other car mecca. While we may all come close, for our companions, it is not all about the cars for 4 days. Hard to beat Norwalk though for sure.

My thing here is that I have met a lot of Great POCI members, most of them older guys, who I relate to better anyway. I have gotten some invaluable information from them, swapped parts back and forth often for nothing but postage and enjoyed swapping stories and info with them. Nearly all of these have been guys I did not meet in any on-line setting. My only concern is that they stay connected to the bulk community, which now seems to be in cyber space. Probably a lot more than I know about since I do not do anything on Facebook and next to nothing on the other social media outlets. If the connection does not happen, then a lot of knowledge and great times in the hobby could be lost.

If nothing comes of this discussion, then that will say a lot.

I can't comment on the politics because I've never been directly involved but I will throw in my 2 cents about the website: It sucks.

Seriously though, the website is the front door to an organization and POCI's is cumbersome, antiquated, and has no sex appeal whatsoever. How are you going to attract new people with such a bland, boring website? The members only section for the classifieds is such a pain in the arse to use that I don't bother going there anymore and no potential member can access it. Why not spend some of the membership dues money on a good website designer and bring the website into 2014.

Ok, I lied. Why is POCI clinging to the ridiculous idea that they support GMC truck enthusiasts? I don't know of a single GMC owner who would ever come to POCI for GMC info. It's time for POCI to admit GMC inclusion was a mistake and end the façade of being in the truck enthusiast business.

A couple years ago I gave up on POCI after 27 years. I sold the whole 27 year collection of mags to someone. Not enough racing in the club to suit me Or the knowledge to set a race up. JMO.

As for young people getting interested, most kids can't afford the hobby.

So what will happen to all the cars?

Years ago, the POCI convention was held in Grand Rapids MI, about 2 hrs away from me. I'm not a member of POCI, but I wanted to check out the show cars, and the swap meet. I DID NOT want to partake in any POCI members functions, like seminars, meetings, meals, trips, etc, just the swap meet and the show cars.

I EMailed the person in charge, explained what I wanted to do, and asked him if he could tell me where those two venues would be located.
He EMailed me back, and said , while they couldn't keep me away, they would like to discourage me from attending, since this event was for POCI members only. Now, I'm pretty sure the vendors in the swap area didn't care if the person spending money with them was a POCI member or not. I also think POCI missed an opprotunity to show a non member what the club was all about, maybe get a new member signed up. It gave me a bitter taste towards POCI, never got interested in joining after that.

I'm a member of the Studebaker Drivers Club. We haven't had a new Stude since 1966. But they actively go out after new members, have great forums online, and a great website. And the national newsletter, Turning Wheels is first class all the way. We also have an aging membership. But there are plenty of younger members who get interested , and join.

They also have national conventions in every part of the country. West coast, east coast, midwest, north, south. But they come home to South Bend every 5 years. How many times has the POCI convention been held in Columbus the past 10 years?

I lost interest in the POCI until Mike Nixon got on board.
Mike has done a great job of trying to move it in the right direction, if you have any ideas please post them here or PM Mike directly.

I was a board member of POCI for 18 years and I was the president for 1997/1998. Things had gone wrong for a few years but current president Merle Green is working very hard to make things right and he is succeeding.

Bruce, please PM me!!

Thoughts & Ramblings
 

Been a POCI member for a year and yes the first time I used the web site I was really thrown for a loop, very hard to use. I really like Smoke Signals, read it cover to cover and yes, it takes about a half hour to do it. Went to two Pontiac shows this year Dayton and Norwalk, what a difference, I wish Norwalk was once a month.

Well said. Thats because the median age for a POCI member is on the higher end. Most car clubs are really. As the cars age, so does the interest in them and the people who like to keep them.

I think the older crowd still believes in the science of paper and hasn't been able to keep up with the web. Go ahead and blast me but thats my feeling.

I dropped my membership after the convention we had here in St Charles a year ago. But because Im very active in the POCI GTO chapter, I'm going to stay neutral on everything in this thread.

Greenville was 2005.

I was a member for over 25 years and i had been really busy in life and realized i had not received a smoke signals in a few months. i called someone and they said that my membership had expired. i didn't even realize it and asked why they didn't send out a notice and got some response like i should keep up with it. so i just never renewed it. it is really sad how that one person with a bad attitude can cost a business.

Id be willing to bet big money that they do send out reminders. I seem to remember that I've gotten them in the past.

Here's a membership renewal idea- have automatic renewals when members use credit cards.

Paul sends out reminders, in fact he's GREAT at it and I havea rough time believing that he would smart off to a member.

Mike

The same thing happened to me as musclecollector, two years in a row...I never got any reminders, the Smoke Signals just stopped showing up in my mailbox.

I was a POCI member years ago all I remember was that it was more about food than cars every event had some food connection that was more important than the cars. Like having a show at a restaurant that only has parking for 20 cars but that was ok because they served good food

I was a member for a number of years in the mid 90's to the early 2000's. I attended the '96 POCI meet in Moline IL and the 2001 meet at Treasure Island in MN.

Sometime after the 2001 meet I didn't renew.

Why?

As mentioned already - the magazine had little of interest in it.

If POCI had created a website/forum like this - it would have been of great interest.

This is an interesting thread. I, too, have thrown my hat into the ring as a Board of Directors member. I joined POCI when I was 18 and have been a member ever since. I agree with many of the gripes cited above...

Whether POCI members or not, I feel a kinship to "Pontiac people".

Man, there is a pot full of ingredients in my head that has just been put on the burner, so I won't have much to add until the stew is ready. Meanwhile, let's hear (well, READ) it.

But two important thoughts come to mind:

1) Please continue to share candid and (hopefully) constructive feedback to this thread.
2) Please do NOT take offense to what is shared here (officers, writers, editors - past or present). This thread may well serve as a priceless soul-searching opportunity for the POCI.

When are the director applications due and who do we send them to? Probably written in SS if I would have had the chance to read any of them in the last 6 months. -Doug

Larry Kummer started Pontiacregistry.com and it is still up and running.

I still belong to Poci but not the local club anymore. Their website sucks really bad. Closing it down would be an improvement. Adding GM trucks hurt POCI. Very few believe the vote was honest. No one I talked to wanted GMC but once the votes were tallied we got them. Early on my membership lapsed as I was not paying attention to the label which had my expiration date on it. At least that is what I was told. There was no notice back then. I wanted to renew but was told I could not have my old number back or the member since was changed to that date. I almost told them to stick it when I found that out.

Here is what was sent to me on November 7 AFTER I submitted a form application in AUGUST containing all of the information requested again here:

If you are interested in being considered for the ballot please complete the following questions. The deadline for responding with the answers to these questions is November 15, 2013.

If you are selected by the committe (Mike Darr, Jack Anderson and myself) you will need to provide us with the write-up of what you wish to have printed in the Smoke Signals about your candidacy and a "mud shot", something similar to a passport photo) no later than November 30, 2013.

Then there was a list of 8 questions to be answered in "resume format". Last time I reviewed 200+ resumes there were a whole lotta formats there, so I was not exactly clear on that. I was approached by members of the administration in the summer and submitted my application according to their instructions.

My experience has lead me to the conclusion that there is way too much focus on the process and not enough communication within or focus on the actual purpose which is the cars and the people. There may be too many people involved in the administration? While I clearly understand the need for some uniformity, putting a truck load of formality in a CAR CLUB is not the way to go. I MIGHT be a little paranoid, but I would say that sending me a request to re-apply a week before the thing is due after I submitted my application that long ago might just be a little political stonewalling. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Combine that with the ambiguous definition of the format and the fact that the board them limits it down to only 2 selections for each region to be on the ballot, and you have a set-up which could significantly limit the membership's ability to have access to and choose the people they want to run the organization and its shape going forward.

Unlike others, I am not going to keep my experiences and opinions close to the vest. This is what has lead to the current situation.

Here is another story- We started up a GTO club in Palm Beach County in 1993, and grew it to about 140 members. When we first started we were a GTOAA chapter. The club was not limited to GTO's as we had all types of Pontiacs. After a while it was clear that the GTOAA was not doing anything for us except forcing membership compliance so we dropped that affiliation. We voted to try and become a POCI club.

We went thru the paperwork, and got to the final stages which required the closest chapters to give their blessing. The Florida chapter (West coast of florida) was fairly defunct at that time, and gave their okay. The Hurricane chapter which was 70 miles to the south was not that accomodating. When I asked POCI why they would say no, I was told (incorrectly or not) that they were afraid we would "steal" members.

Fast forward to 2013. We are still here, though not anywhere near 140 strong, but closer to 1/3 of that, as for the other 2 clubs, I don't know if they exist in any form.

I'm sure our club was not the first one to be subject to this, so who knows how many other clubs across the country this might have happened to.

imo a lot of truth here. Other clubs scared of stealing members Fear of the unknown. Have vision to grown. IMO brace the newbie they started for a reason. Reason being old club old way = death.. Get together once a year for all the clubs. share info grow together. well anyway that will probalby never happen.

patrick

Quite possibly that is what is happening to POCI. Those perceivably "in charge" want to protect their position and in their personal and comfortable interest will let the POCI die as long as their agenda serves themselves. Might be a prime opportunity for an entirely new club or organization.

The new President does not operate like that. He wants to make things right. It is not all self-serving as some his predecessors were. He just wants to do what is best for the membership.

Most got sucked up into collections by collectors that bid with their egos instead of common sense. Priced most common folk right outa the hobby
Steve

This reply does not refer to POCI directly. This type of organization in general just isn't for me. I enjoy my old car(s) and enjoy spending time with my car-guy friends going to swap meets, generic car shows and cruise nights. I do appreciate these club's efforts to "preserve classic Pontiacs". I just choose to do so by keeping my cars and buying parts from the specialty suppliers i.e. PY. Some might say that's not enough, but its a free country (theoretically)

With all respect to POCI, I hear this all the time. I heard this when Dave Bennett was president too.

I was not around for what seems to be a tough time in POCI leadership. So I cant comment on that. But I have to say that it must have been really tough because each leader wants to change the the old ways. Looks like it left a big scar.

I like what SteveP is saying but how does new pres. visit each and every local club to change the status quo? Once a year at the National convention? People will do what they want to do regardless. Human nature. imo Hope I am wrong and local clubs get togther and grow. Need the Bonnvelle SSEi and GP xp and Grand Am's
Maybe not the AZTEC. LOL
patrick

The new president is just trying to do the right thing. Things are changing for the better, but it is no easy task. His contact info is posted, so contact him. I'm sure that he will appreciate it. He is a gentleman and he used to fly C5's!

i can assure you that had they never failed to send a reminder I would still be a member. as to who I talked to, I don't remember tim dye gave me a number to call and that guy gave me another number.

My membership lapsed despite seeing things improve after the fiasco that was GMC being included and the rest of us told to stuff it because "the majority of the club approved of it." I guess car clubs just aren't for me. My cars aren't "cool" or "pretty enough" to be remotely included or liked. Most of the people in the local clubs I went to were older than my dad - not that there is anything wrong with that, but when the older members constantly complain about young kids "not getting it" or doing something stereotypically lazy or stupid, it makes it hard to want to spend time with them. There were some really great members who were really nice, but at the same time considerably more just flat out snubbed their nose at what I drove not being a '65-70 GTO or that I was 24 or 25 and therefore more interested in video games or partying all night.

I wish the club well and hold no ill will towards any of them, but they just don't have anything to offer me. I get what I need Pontiac-wise from this forum and a few local resources who don't have much use for clubs either.

I've been a member since '85.

I'm not the type to get real involved w/ clubs, though. I mostly joined for the magazine, classifieds, and to keep up on upcoming events which I might occasionally attend (and for what it's worth, I do the same with a couple of other automobile brands I'm a fan/owner of).

I also continue to pay the annual dues just because I feel like I'm supporting the hobby in some small way. And even though the Smoke Signals magazine can be read pretty quickly, I still enjoy it, and I don't really expect it to be much more than it is.

Since I don't get too involved in the club, regular meetings, etc., I can't say I've perceived any politics going on, at least at the National level. I don't belong to either of the two local chapters that are near me.

I agree the inclusion of GMC into POCI bugged me - just no overlap between the two enthusiast groups so it seemed contrived to maintain some financial support for GM. But I also don't feel like the GMC thing has taken anything away from the Pontiac side, either -- not many GMCs taking up space in the Smoke Signals or at the convention.

The POCI website is a place I haven't checked out in probably 7 - 10 years, and I found it a bit cumbersome when I did. It would be hard to turn the tide around on that, I think. Once you've established a habit (as in visiting PY regularly), it would take something dramatically better to prompt a switch.

I've attended several conventions: mid 80s in Greensboro, early 90s in Gaithersburg (I think, or somewhere near there), 2000 in Grand Rapids, and the two co-ventions in Dayton. I generally only come for the show on Saturday. I just don't have the time (or frankly even the interest) to turn it into a 5-day thing. The format of the Ames/Norwalk event is much more appealing to me: 2-3 days, racing included, and I generally feel like I see pretty much 90% of it just by attending on Saturday.

Man, I have to say, the feedback has been GREAT.

Bunkie Knudsen said you can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man. ...is there something in there regarding club membership?

Just wondering. Thoughts?

POCI Director Elections
 

Anyone interested in being considered for election to the POCI Board should contact one of the following:

Don Bougher
email: [email protected]
Phone: 503-868-7500

Jack Anderson
email: [email protected]
phone: 302 353-0244

Mike Darr
email: [email protected]
phone: 816-532-4349

You will be provided a questionnaire to fill out, and asked for a photograph (head shot only) suitable for publication in Smoke Signals. These need to be returned no later than Nov. 30, due to print publication deadlines.

The reason that the number of candidates is limited to two per director's position is that incumbents running against multiple new candidates were perceived to have an unfair advantage. The new candidates would invariably split the votes and the incumbent would be a shoo-in.

Just a couple points of observation from "outside"
People get more "stubborn" with age and focus more on their interests and usually get to the point they REFUSE to deviate.
People get to being in "clicks" in car clubs, and any newbie can easily think they are an "outsider"
I go to a cruise night quite a ways away which a Firebird club runs. Many nights there is only ONE Firebird there, BUT, there is a whole young crowd with everything you can think of on wheels. Im in my 50's, and found myself listening to a 20 year old talk about his 2 door Honda ( was a 4 door at one time) and all its mods for like 45 minutes. I was sorta shocked at what he knew. He wasnt a stereo and subwoofer kid...Soon others were hanging around and listening commenting. Guess it sort of bridged the gap. there was the lawnchair crowd too there, some segregated by brands even.
Point here is that the whole hobby, even the "Ricers" has dropped off some. Time to work together.
You will NEVER please everyone with a magazine. You just cant do drag racing, stock, modified, and all models of all years of Pontiacs. PE was great, I hated to see it go, but Im sure many couldnt care less. HPP is always looking for articles that will spark new interest however the word 'HIGH PERFORMANCE" Kind of limits that.
You can usually NOT change old ways, I STILL have trouble convincing old timers that a Thermostat Fully operates about 20 degrees HOTTER than its rating!!
Stubborn people usually think their way is the BEST way..... the Miracle comes when stubborn people work together ( like many musical groups, and stubborness drives them apart)
Reaching out across the "Generations" as PY has done with parts is important for any Club to survive. Linking to a existing success story can only make things grow, IF the old ways are gone, and the fellowship remains.
Many club officers say they do NOT want drama in their club and screen new officers accordingly, but in reality THEY are their own Drama and cant see it.
Lastly, went to a cruise night this summer and at the very end of a row was an Aztec. I went down to see it and show my wife, Neither of us had looked at one close up. This was one of the last made. This guy had a tent on the back of it. In a few minutes 15 people were standing around it. One guy asks where HE can get one!!
Its time to let the 4cylinder Firebirds, The Esprit's, Aztecs, the Solstices, Fieros, etc IN to the fold..
NOTE, Funny how the PY show turned into a GTOAA show..???

I offer some additional thoughts that aren't really club specific, but more of an evolution. Maybe some will agree. Once upon a time, I enjoyed going to shows. Typically a show would start at 9:00am and maybe be done by 3:30-4:00pm. Usually it was a asphalt parking lot, but occassionally a nice park or better surrounding. In those days, a car show was a rare occurrence. In the early 90's we had a little hamburger stand run by a woman and her parents that started a Tuesday night cruise scene. Free to anyone, just show up when you want, leave when you want. That became quite popular. As time went on, there was a resurrgence in the hobby, and after a while there were multiple shows every weekend. It became a bit of a cottage industry for promoters, and many gave trophies to anyone who showed up. Restaurants would hire them to put on a show to increase revenue etc etc.

With this glut of shows, you could pick and choose, and as a result shows became smaller. In the mid to late 2000's, the evolution continued, and there was a decrease in shows. Cruise nights would pop up, last a little while then fail, and move to somewhere else.

Now in 2013, there seem to be a huge decrease in shows. I will attend from time to time, but the length of the time that I stay at a show is less and less. I just don't feel like sitting around for 6+ hours. Now I drive my cars more... though still not as much as I should.

Alot of Wisdom from Andre.
To add to his thought POCI starts on Wednesday and goes to Sunday. The 2 shows I attended most of the cars were gone by Saturday afternoon. Swamp meet was gone.
Tri-power Nationals draws close to 1000 cars. 400 race 600 show? Huge swap meet and it is Friday, Saturday awards 3pm Sunday. To me this is a great model to go by.
In 8 hours you can see all the cars cruise the swap meet and watch the fastest Pontiacs in the country race side by side. Well organized event and worth the 40 bucks.

patrick

An extra day was added to the POCI Convention before I left the BOD and I thought that it was going overboard. It used to be that the BOD meeting was the day before any activities, then you had day 1 or opening, day 2 had chapter night and day 3 was show day. But we did not have a large points judged show to fit in, so we actually needed the extra day.

POCI
 

chief car show guy, told me when I asked about Points judging years ago. We wont get that nit picky. when asked about a few details, and was sure to tell me about radial tire deductions, at that time it was 15 points. My concern was safety when driving to the shows. His answer was use bias tires with tubes in them. Points judging is about correctness! never entered my car since then. Been a member since 1987 and had the car that long also.

I'm right there with ya. I enjoy driving my cars and if it's a pretty enough day to have a show then I'd prefer to be going somewhere rather than sitting in a parking lot.

Plus: why should I have to pay $10 (or $15 or $20) to park my car(s) at a local small show when all the spectators get in for free? Seems kinda upside down to me.

Regarding POCI membership: I've been a member for about 10 years now. To be honest only reason I maintain the POCI membership is because it is a requirement for me to be in my local chapters: the Widetrackers and the Motor City Chapter.

One more point/question: anyone else having trouble adjusting to this "getting older" thing? I've always been a half generation/full generation behind the "big names" in the Pontiac hobby and therefore have always considered myself to be one of the young bucks. That doesn't seem to be an accurate perception anymore....

:p

K

Random points from my mind that are issues:

I don't like Poncho groups that value GTO's above all else.

I don't like ego trip group leaders of any flavor

When "the organization" becomes more important than the "point of the group" it is wrong

Cliques within organizations that really run the organization

Groups so conservative they try nothing different EVER

Making things more than they should be (5 day events instead of 2 or 3)

Groups always needing money just to run the organization with no visable effect

The people with the most personal money having the louder voice

As in the people with the highest dollar cars somehow being better

and as I age, I HATE ELITISTS of ANY KIND! and these clubs attract them

I could go on

the SHAME is I would LOVE to belong to a GREAT Pontiac club! I would pay! I would attend! It would be FUN!

Years (I mean MANY) I looked into POCI, my impression was a bunch of crabby old guys who liked Chieftans and Oaklands and for the muscle they like GTO's and the last place a Bird guy would fit in. I think this is what grew the TAC and Bird organizations, a reaction to the Goat is King attitude. I love Goats, but IMO opinion, the birds draw more attraction from John Q average non Poncho person (I may take heat for that) but birds are AT LEAST the equal of anything Poncho else now and should not be the "little brother" they have been viewed as for so many years.

Bring on a new, revitalized POCI, and I WILL JOIN!

Matt, Deadhead -

This is all I have left to say:

http://4dsales.com/wp/wp-content/upl...u1-200x133.jpg

;)

K