71-72 shakers
 

I have five 71-72 THICK shakers in my possession right now, one 70-72 "NOS/Service Replacement" and one 73
All the 71-72 Born on car shakers have on the inside of the Fiberglass
BARNUM BROS FIBRE CO INC P
481689
They have a door hinge frame glued in the rear opening
The steel riveted on part has a distinct step all the way around the outside border as well as the hold down wings stamped as one piece. This is the part that is hardest to find and all attempts need to be made to save these as they are distinct to REAL born on 70-72 shakers.
Part# on born on unit
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps52a695e3.jpg
bottom of ear on born on
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...psd8aa2101.jpg
step on born on
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...pscf06184d.jpg
The 1970-72 NOS/ Service Replacement and the 73 have on the inside you can also readily see that the numbers were changed from 481689 to 491982 in a crude manner.
BARNUM BROS FIBRE CO INC P
491982
This tells me that after the 1st design 70-72 steel riveted parts were used up they converted the 73-76 steel by spot welding the mounting ears on in order to hold the unit onto the 70-72 air breather base that's why there are NOS units out there that won't fit the base tabs and also spot welding on the same solenoid bracket that was used on the 70-72. They also used the 73-76 fiberglass by glueing in a 70-72 door frame instead of the frame for the block off.
spot welded on ear
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps922f9b08.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps683bc3e4.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...psd22f3190.jpg
chopped away so they could spot weld the ear onhttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps01fe3421.jpg
73-76 lip
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...psd4e4f562.jpg
changed part number
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...pscb1463e3.jpg
Of course I can't tell you when Pontiac ran out of the REAL parts and started modifying later parts to work as replacements but that is what they did. So when you say NOS it may not mean DESIRABLE as it very well may be and is most likely different than a born on unit.
So as shakers go Steve's has the CORRECT born on steel and believe me this is the hardest part to find in good shape. I am seeing more and more of these in very bad and rusty shape and most need major repair. So much so that I have repoped the rear sheet metal as its easier to replace it than try to fix it. Steve's is actually in my eyes more desirable than a NOS/Service Replacement unit. JMHO
this is what I see on most. I fabbed a new part for this one to save it
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps8edc33b3.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps2822ef09.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps39867c25.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...pscb81edb0.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps6911cad2.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps3ed84c09.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps8edc33b3.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps49634145.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps69767d7a.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps9c3ecf38.jpg


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps023535f2.jpg

No wonder you were busy last night. Probably took down many blue mountains to compose yourself....

Good info! Thanks. Do you have your own spot welder machine?

Here's one that was on ebay. It has the welded on later ears.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1plPJ60_57.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...tV1bQ60_57.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...OVtyw60_57.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...IfsTg60_57.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...pD8Eg60_57.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...f53-g60_57.jpg

shake it up
 

I have owned 2 N.O.S. SR shaker scoops in my life...one is currently planned to go on my car...the welded on taps line up fine, so did my other in 1979, although I have seen ones that dont...it is a GM part and it works for me...as far as I am concerned NJSTEVES shaker is comparable to an original installed shaker...it features the original metal base plate...and everything is O.E.M...if you are atleast 50 years old, all of this should make perfect sense...if you did not live through the era, this is where the misunderstandings come along I think...this is where the hobby gets weird to me, but since I have lived through it, I can laugh...if someone needs an inexpensive functional shaker they do make a repop for $300

While it is nice of you Norwood to take the time to provide information, most of which is well documented if you do your research, it's obvious to me and many others that the forsale thread was not about whether or not NJSteve made a nice copy, because it obviously is. I think the gripe for most came from the original post as being described at first as an original restored 71-72 piece and it wasn't actually disclosed as a couple of scoops that have been put together from different sources (albiet correct) until someone else brought that to light in the first couple of posts.
That's where the descrepency became apparent for other people. I believe if NJSteve would have just come out and explained that in the add without 80 pages of links to read through then none of this would have started to begin with.
No one is arguing that this one forsale from NJSteve isn't correctly done. So I personally don't see the point in all this. Obviously it's really bothering some of you guys and you seem hell bent on pushing the issue about correctness, LOL we all clearly get that part of it.
Some good info here though for others, thanks for taking the time.

Mr Jones, You are WELCOME......

the problem to me was putting the thread in the 70-73 sections. The 4 sale sections don't have "discussion threads" and putting down seller or part is not really allowed, per se. I have been tempted to put "FYI" threads in the 70-73 section about stuff I had for sale and in the 4 sale section (to be helpful like Steve did) but have resisted due it going south somehow...... and it IS inviting discussion, so I think this is the teaching, really....

Just curious on availability (reproduction) of the plastic insert that hinges to the trap door...?

Is something available yet or are we reworking the 73-76 insert?

AFAIK, not available by itself. I have one functional shaker missing that part entirely and another one that is broken, but all else fine with them, so it would be a good one to make. I have a friend that is good with making fiberglass parts, but he is always too busy with life to do this type of thing. I have one that is already removed from a scoop also...

The hinge frame is a completely different part than the rivet plate frame. I saw a hinge/door assembly on ebay about 10 years ago but never saved the photos. It looked like it had never been installed so maybe it was a service part?

As I recall,there WAS a repro available through Ames,maybe 15 or more years ago...

Guess I should have bought some?

The problem seems to be that I assumed that everyone had the same basic knowledge of these component parts and their interchangeability between years. Thankfully Norwood is presenting the facts for them, now.

But be that as it may, I have learned my lesson and will be happy to request that the moderators remove the my offending restoration thread(s) if that's what the majority of people want.

72 T/A restoration thread
 

actually please do not remove that thread...it contains a lot of technical information that would be lost...I credit that thread for getting me back into my restoration over a year a go...somehow I stumbled on to it and that's what makes PY a different company than the rest..it was the T.C.S. thing that did it for me...I am not a car show person and thanks to the web and that thread...that kind of stuff is not in the service manual...especially over this shaker...now we have a thread about the different shakers, I wont even mention the 1974 G.T.O. functional shaker

If you ever get to meet these guys (Steve and Craig et al) you will see they have real Pontiac passion! Plus they make cool stuff too! Lucky to these guys post here!!

The door frame would be an easy out of steel. from the outside it would look identical to oem but it would have a slightly different look from the inside. There is that conversion kit out there but you cannot hang an original door on it, but maybe it could be modified.

X 1 MILLION

OK,so if you're already making the door...why not the frame as well......?

You could sell it three ways....frame,door or pre-hung combination...

So.....if you have 5 shakers...does that make you a hoarder? :D

Hostage Shaker....

So let me ask the obvious question here....since SR, even if they are NOS, seem to have no value. (Now I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but really if you think about it, Norwood is right. They don't fit or look right. Ergo, no resto value as is.)

How much will it cost to make my two SR shakers correct for the 71-72 air cleaner??? One is NOS and one is fresh painted blue.

May as well get them as correct as possible. Fortunately I do have a correct "born-on" piece on the car now. I'd take that off and hold it, should I resto the car, and put a "corrected" SR on the car for now.

Guess I'm a hoarder too....Have more 69-71 GP manual trans console plates than he has shakers...

Maybe I will.......I miscounted I have 6...Not all mine so I am not hoarding and people trust me with there priceless items......

Keith didn't you have some fit problems? I will give you 50 each for the worthless Service units......ok 100 each and I will pay the shipping. PM me for address. Only way to correct them is to find the early metal piece and rivet it on. but I would use them om my car, afterall it is a Correct Pontiac part, just not quite the same. No different than using 73> fenders on a 70-72 or millions of other things JMHO

70-2 scoops
 

Here is what info I dug up from different cars, Looked at two 70 scoops, both have AMP in oval 481689,

Next an early 71, came from lo mile cali car, no manufacturer name, 481689, this is a thin scoop also, but side edges, alittle thinner than 70

next one from 71, later 71/2 type, this one says Barnum 481689

to sum up, seems like 3 different types used on production TAs from 70-2

solenoids
 

many years ago, I bought a set of scoop solenoids, what i noticed. is the ones bought in 1987 had ink stamped part #, & rubber boot, the production ones had stamped into metal the part #

On the scoop door, I see the 2 tabs, does the t bar hook to right or left?

Early 71 scoop, looks to be orig paint..
Hope this info helps..

Should we mention that the Service Replacement units came with thin closed cell foam rubber "floormat" glued to the door?

service scoop
 

I had one of these about 15 yrs ago, It was in box, i do remember foam on door, & a hole in door also. Did not write part # before i sold it.

The short one...

I think those SR flapper doors are the same ones used on the production '74 GTO functional shakers.

I, too, had one with the black foam on it.

71 scoop
 

Craig, or James, have you ever seen the 71 early thin scoop? Got this in so cal about 12 yrs ago. It does not have any name that I could see, alittle thinner than 70 1/2 AMP scoop. This car was a sept built car, even had a 12 bolt...

early 71 scoop
 

early 71 scoop

1970 shaker scoop with no drain
 

I had a 1970 car magazine showing the introduction of the 1970 firebirds and T/A..may have been CARS...anyway it had some great photos taken at GM...I recall the shaker was unique in that the right side front was like the left side,curved no provision for a drain...a 1970 sales brochure may have a shot of it also..I am guessing that it was a prototype and that design never made production..does anyone recall seeing this shaker also?...in 1979 I ordered a shaker door and that's what I got..the door with the foam

yes, a friend of mine has a thin lip scoop off a '71 T/A that he parted out many years ago. I thought it was a '70, but he said the car was all original, but rusty, so it got parted. He's been saving the parts for many moons. I believe his dash bezel had the chrome rings too...

thin scoop 71
 

it looks similar to the 70, but sides thinner, & i could not see a name, just 481689, pic posted. So, I guess, 3 diff production ones used. A friend gave this one to me in San Diego, he has since mid 70s, when car totaled in rear, it looks new..

I'm thinking it is pretty rare. Did you see a maker name on his?

He had bezel too in garage, it did have chrome rings, but unfort was hacked w/aftermarket gauges.

don't recall if it had the manufacturer name or not

Norwood,it looks like you are stamping these parts,can I buy just the strap the solenoids sit in? I have a thin lip shaker but the middle of the strap was cut out [maybe to clear a different carb ?] Can supply a photo if it would help. Thanks, Bruce.

My early build 71 has the 70 thin lipped scoop, left over I guess.

Very informative write up. I'll be looking more closely at the overall condition of mine.

On the subject of 70-72 hood scoops; how far is the scoop door suppose to come in the closed position? Mine has never come completly closed, it stays open approx 1/8" or so. Years ago I tried adjusting it to close fully but the trade off was it wouldn't open that far when actuated, so I readjusted it to the original position.

Never seen to many of these cars to observe others.

Some 70's had a braided ground strap that attached to the back of the door......

I've seen that cause problems with the trap door operation....

My 09B of 1970 Norword built '71 T/A has the extra braided strap that goes to the shaker door. I'm pretty sure its the "thick" shaker but its been a while since I have looked at it closely since the car was stuck in paint shop purgatory for 3 years.

I added a small spring from the flapper door to the solenoid strap and that seem to fix the issue with the door not closing all the way.

AHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh No. Born at night but not LAST night...:) (nice try though!)

I'll keep my worthless shakers until I can build them back to what I need. I do have one orig on the car so I'm good for my car. Ames sold me the NOS unit for $800..Silly me. The other came on the car. Spent a couple bucks to paint it correct blue. Should anyone need pics of them, I do have a thread about shaker fit a couple years back so look at it sot see if the scoop you are buying is an SR or not.

Kind of glad to bring out the whole SR issue to your attention a couple years ago. Now we have a handle on this. Will save a lot of other guys significant $$$.

Mine does have that strap. I'll checkout the spring setup you pointed out.

I thought the xtra ground strap went from the solenoids to the metal ring, not to the flap door?? Then the main ground to firewall too this ground to firewall. Discontinued due to being overkill. May be wrong, need to look up to be sure, but pretty sure I have this right.

And my now standard and apparently needed disclaimer:
"My opinion only. If this offends someone in any form at all, please accept my apology, was not meant this way"

Mine has a braided ground that attaches to the door.

keiths shakers
 

keith if you took off the mislocated tab or tabs and located it to the correct position, use a dual snorkel air cleaner... you would have a functioning N.O.S. SR shaker...they are not worthless junk...I am putting one on my car and your comments are devaluing my car....joking of course

Bill, What do you mean by metal ring? I always thought that it went to the door but never understood why. But why else is would they put a male spade on the door? But if it goes to the door , what would it ground to, the door is isolated and has no contact with any metal surface other than the T bar, it really would serve no purpose. Pontiac engineers thought they needed it for a reason. The stupid things we need to know.

I have never used one on my shaker, I also have never hooked up the ground from the base to the firewall. I have never had one not function.

shaker grounds
 

has anyone ever seen the parts breakdown of the shaker where they show a ground clip mounting thru the bolt of the front passenger side carburetor hold down bolt?...does anyone have this?

nope....but its #36

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...s486d04e9.jpeg

I was wrong. It is clear in the 1970 assembly manual shows that extra ground with one mount to the bracket that holds the solenoids and it states " to valve" .. later pic's name the door "valve" .. so I was wrong..

I have seen that clip on every original 1970 and 1971 TA that I have looked at. Sort of duplicates the grounds we are all discussing.The ground strap from the base to the firewall and this clip both will ground the solenoids, as will the extra ground inside the scoop this thread was discussing.. Seems overkill to me.. But yes, originals have that clip. It will mess up your nice and pretty restored shaker base's black paint pretty quick..lol..

OK so what would the purpose be? Anyone of the smart guys here have a theory. What would the purpose be of grounding the door? The solinoids need a ground of course but they arn't getting it from the door.

Where dose that ground from the carb bolt to the base attatch to?