tired of electric fuel pump
 

Driving my car the other night and it died. Holley blue fuel pump had quit running. Slid under car and wiggled wires and hit pump with my hand , got back in car and flipped the switch and pump came on . Fired the car up and drove home. Pump was replaced less than a year ago. Tired of the noise and unreliability.

Thinking of going with a Robbmc mechanical pump. Tank is sumped and have 8 AN fuel line running to Holley 950hp on a 455.

I would like to hear what yall think about the Robbmc pumps.

I love RobbMc pumps. Have an 1100 on my Catalina [455] and have never thought of changing to any electric pump. I race the dog sh*t out of the Cat and have never had ANY issues of fuel delivery. Plus the customer service is as good as their product.

Jim

Just curious, are you running a return style fuel system?

A buddy of mine just swapped his Holley Blue Pump to a return style set up. He was running his deadheaded and it was noisy. Quiet as a mouse in the bypass set up!

I am running a return. It did make it quieter. I don't know why it quit running the other night but don't like that.

Exactly what I want to hear. I would rather go mechanical if there is no reason not to.

I'm torn, on the clone, the 80gph and factory 3/8 lines were giving me some vapor lock issues on the hottest days, and not sure if I want to go electric and bypass or mech. I originally thought I could get away with a mechanical and bought a 550hp RobbMC, but questioning that now. Bypass electric setups provide a much better chance of preventing vapor lock.

The driver has a bypass setup with a Holley HP150, and that thing is not only been reliable, but dead silent too. I don't understand folks who say the blue, red, or black pumps are quiet, they are far from quiet in my experience, and not that reliable for continuous use.

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My hp150 is noisy as heck! Not quite as bad as my old holley blue, but still pretty loud.. i must just be lucky i guess. i even sent it back to holley, they inspected and tested it and said its OK and sent it back. It performs great and has been reliable though... just not quiet.:confused:

You must be running it deadhead, which in contrast to what Holley says, is not the recommended approach.

Mine I swear is so quiet, even with the car off, you have to stick your head down there to hear it run. I hear more from the regulator cycling when it's sat for a while than the pump.

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I've had several Holley Blue pumps. Even with a return(which I always run) and isolation I've always found them a little noisy. Never had an issue with failures. That being said, on my current 600 hp 67 GTO, I wouldn't hear it anyway!

I run a Carter street pump on my engine with 3/8 hard lines to the carbs.I run a elect in the back with #8 hose to the mech pump.I have a switch under the dash to the elect.I run the pump to prime the system and at the track.That is the only times I run the elect.Have not had a issue in 13 years AFTER I had the elect only and blew a fuse and had no extra in the car.Never looked back.Tom

I appreciate all the responses. Would like to hear from some others running the Robbmc pump or other high volume mechanical pump on a street strip car. If machanical will do the job, that is what I would like to run.

the blue pumps weren't made or recommended for long time use like street driving, they were known back i n the day as a race piece, YES... i know many have not had issues on the street, and yet some have... guess it all depends
i ran a red pump for years, no problem
i run the HP150 and i will admit, that is pretty darn quiet and i have no issues with it
about as quiet if not more quiet than the red i had

I run the ROBBMC pump the 550 with no return line and had no problems at all with the pump the only small problem I had was getting the right fittings to hook up the pump without using 90 deg. fittings. You will have to mod. the lines as the pump is so much larger than a regular fuel pump but other than that the pump works great!!!------BOB

In most cases the factory AC Delco mechanical pump even with stock size fuel line will supply enough fuel for most street rods provided the rest of the fuel system is up to par. Many guys running around with electric pumps that don't need them. Had a buddy with a 70 Judge with a 455 running in the 10's (trailered car) with the factory AC Delco pump. Just make sure you use the one with the return line.

Im running a return.

Hm, what kind of regulator? Maybe you need to use a better one? I've recommended and checked installs on 2 other cars, and they too are dead silent.

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Its the jegs billet return style reg. Seems to be a nice piece. Pressure is set at 6psi and never goes below 5.5 or so at WOT. So i cant complain about performanc. I see holley sells a new gerotor for these pumps but for $70 im not real motivated to try it.. my car is kinda loud anyway. Now if i put some quieter mufflers on it them ill probably try and quiet down the pump too...

Yeah, I originally ran the first pump I had deadhead, and it overheated and started making noise. I called Holley about and they sent me a rebuild kit for free (took a number of calls). Even after rebuilding, it was noisy, so I just bought a new one. I added the bypass regulator setup before I bought the new pump, and even after that and the rebuild it was loud. Stuck the new one on there and it was silent. I think that very first pump I got lasted like 500-800 miles and it was done. Might have just been a bad one, dunno, maybe because it was deadheaded. But I had the lines all routed and out of convenience went with the same pump part . (Didn't have to route or change fittings). Think that pump has been on for well over 50k miles, have driven 1000+ of miles in a day, never had a problem. I had a spare for years I carried around, never needed it, eventually sold it.

I argued with Holley tech about running the HP pump deadhead, and they even told me they wouldn't warranty it if I go to a bypass. Did anyway. Glad I did. I also removed the shim relief and disabled the relief, let it rely on the bypass regulator only.

I had a Comp 140 on before, went through a few of them, they didn't last for continuous duty, though have heard others don't have a problem with them.

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that's great info. When I installed my Robbmc pump a few months back, I was also swapping in my new engine along with a new trans, etc. I ran out of time to search for fittings, so ended up using 90 deg. fittings. Haven't had a chance to get back to it yet, falls off a bit on hard pulls tho. Would you mind letting me know what fittings you ended up using? In my little town we don't have a lot of selection, so it would be nice to know what I'm looking for ahead of time.

I bought a RobbMc 1100 when they first came out after having 2 failed Mallory 140's.
Running -10 lines with a 5/16" vapor return and it has no problem keeping up at my power level. I have a -08 line coming out of the pump into a Mallory regulator with a 3/8" line to the carb.
It worked down to the low 11's with a Q-Jet which really needs top flight fuel delivery. The vapor return option really helps with restarts in the hotter months. Always fires at the first turn of the key.

Thanks for the reply. I think the pump for 550 horsepower would be good for me.

Cable driven...

http://www.watermanracing.com/Pages/fuelpump1.html

I just want to provide an update since i was crying about my noisy hp150. The other night i disassembled it to see what i could find and inspect the gerotor mechanism. Everything looked ok, the gerotor did show some wear but nothing major. There is an internal screen filter, looked clean but i could hardly blow through it. Blasted it with carb cleaner and then i could blow through it with ease. I've always run a quality 80 micron prefilter so im not sure what clogged the internal screen filter... varnish or something not visible? Anyhoo got it all back together and it is nice and quiet now. What a relief after having a loud pump for like two years. Im probably lucky it didn't burn up. Funny thing is it was noisy the day i got it back from Holley! Cant wait for spring and if y'all gots a noisy holley HP pump, check the internal filter! Fyi jon:usa2:

I run the the RobbMc 1/2" fuel sender, 1/2 stainless line to a RobbMc 550 with 1/2" line to a Qjet. At WOT it runs down to "0" PSI. I called them, told them of the problem and they reffered me to the directions that came with the pump. Well, I followed the directions from the onset, so there were no changes I could make. I followed up with an email. They left me hanging, I'm not happy. I spared no expense to avoid this problem. Just sayin'

With a sumped tank, 1/2" lines and pusher pump, bypass regulator set at 6lbs, pressure will not go below 5.5lbs anytime. I've got a pressure guage on the cowel i can see while driving.

Could it be the 10% ethanol sitting for months at a time. It sure goofs up my lawn mower.

I like 'em...
 

I run the RobbMC 550hp mechanical and a Carter 8psi electric (booster) pumps on both of my 11 second Pontiacs which have 3/8" feed and 1/4" vapor lines. The Carter pumps are set up with a full bypass and the RobbMc pump outputs are plumbed directly into a Holley regulator set for 6psi. The GTO has a Shaker455 built 4150 Holley and the TA has a Ruggles built Q-Jet. Both aux pumps are operated manually for filling the Q-Jet or when racing :eek:.


I used to have a CE sumped stock tank on the GTO, Holley 150 gerotor pump, Aeromotive return style regulator, -10 hose from the tank to the pump, and -8 feed and return lines. Worked great on the track, but the engine frequently stalled/missed while driving on the street when the unbaffled tank allowed the pump to pick up air as the fuel sloshed around. Aeromotive makes a new drop-in pump ($400+) setup surrounded by an anti-slosh foam baffle to prevent the problem that I had when street driving the Goat.

I just picked up a Aeromotive A1000 Fuel Pump and A1000 carb regulator this is what most of the turbo v8 guys are running around here they don't seem that loud. But have not heard much talk about them on this forum? Do you guys not care for Aeromotive?

Aeromotive stuff is top notch, and use their' stuff as much as I can. The regulator on the driver is the 13301, and it's provided stable psi for years.

The pumps on the other hand I don't believe are quiet. I had an SS pump at one time and that thing was loud, period. I'm not sure about the A1000 pumps, but I have an Eliminator pump on the 'bird, though haven't run it yet. (older pic)

I like the filters, and use those on all my cars. Aeromotive makes AN fittings too, ones that are tapered in the mouth, which are the least restrictive fittings out there. Those too I use as much as possible, especially on the feed and output sides of the filters and pumps. (cross section pic)

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I've had excellent success with the Comp 140 pumps. They don't like a "dead head" set-up, but last many years with a return system and are very quiet.

I have two pumps, one as a back-up, and keep a brush set in the shop. The pump is installed so I can change it in minutes, and it only takes a few minutes to install a brush set in one. The first pump I installed "dead head" only lasted a few months. The second pump lasted over 10 years and just started acting up last summer. It never did quit, but started getting noisy. I installed the original pump that was rebuilt with new brushes, and put new brushes in the second pump and put it on the shelf as a spare.

I went thru all sorts of grief trying to get a mechanical pump to keep up with my power level, even with a "pusher" pump they just didn't keep up under all conditions. Using an electric pump behind the tank and 8an lines/fittings everyplace has been flawless running deep into the 11's over 120mph. The car sees a decent amount of street time as well. I did at one point have a Holley vane type pump in place, and it made me want to grind my teeth, so it was only in place about as long as it took me to type this!.....Cliff

How is it the Chevy's I see at the track alot of them run mech pumps and have no issues with fuel delivery? My brother's Camaro 550 hp, runs low 11's@ 120-121 and uses just a mech pump with -8 an line dead head. His gauge is at 6 psi across stripe too..

Subscribing so I can follow the discussion -

I have a Holley red pump at the tank, deadheaded, pumping to a block mounted mechanical pump, on both the Chevelle and the GTO. Like Tom said I use the electric pump for priming and then during the 1/4 mile; everything else is done on the mech pump.

This worked well for the last 30 years or so, but it seems like lately I have to put a new pump on the Chevelle every spring. Not sure what's changed - I'd be interested to know if there has been a design tweak (or quality spill) that is affecting this.

They only see Turbo Blue 110; GTO goes 12.20's and the Chevelle has been 9.80's.

K

With a fuel cell and large lines a mechanical pump will work fine for high performance use, even drag racing. They easily fall short of reaching full capacity if fed by stock tanks/sumps and tiny supply lines. This almost always requires a "pusher" pump so they work correctly on hard runs.

Electric pumps simply work better mounted behind a sumped tank or fuel cell, as we use the forces generated by hard acceleration to supply the pump, then ALL the fuel going forward is under pressure, not under suction......Cliff

Yes I understand that, But even back when I had the grandville , Fuel cell the whole deal It would not ever come close to working, never did know why, I even ran a huge 15 psi diaphram in mech and two elec carter pushers for it to work, til I had enough money to buy one Magna fuel pump and be done with it. I was just curious why I see so many setups at track with mech work and mine never did. Unless it was the 1.60's at 4550 lbs!! lol

Are they using a Q-jet with its tiny fuel bowl or Hollys that have 2 large bowls?
I'm under the assumption that a Q-jet's little bowl has a hard time keeping up once your well over stock HP levels, hence the need for a steady & efficient fuel supply. Maybe my thinking on this has nothing to do with how starvation happens?
I'm keeping an eye on this thread, l have what may be a thirsty 455HO with a quadrajet in the works and I want to get it right.
:popcorn:

I thought it was just me. I tried a 550 a few years back when they first showed up on the scene here at PY. Despite having 1/2 inch lines all the way it would fall flat on the 2-3 shift. They were very helpful on the phone and offered a lot of possible solutions but nothing I tried helped. I did rig a fuel pressure gauge where I could see it and, sure enough, when the car was pulling hard it would gradually start dropping and at the 2-3 shift I was at zero. The car would just nose over. Get out of the accelerator and it would catch back up. Oh, car was probably making about 425hp at the time and I was using a Qjet.

I wrote it off as something I was doing since so many success stories are out there. I sold it and went back to a Mallory. There's a little noise and I have to rebuild it every few years but it works.

One thing to keep in mind is with a mechanical, all soft lines and connections need to be right on the money. If you have a dried, cracked section of rubber line, or a loose clamp, it will suck air. Depending on the routing, a soft line can also collapse under suction. And those situations would mostly happen under a demand for fuel.

Always keep bends to a minimum, and make sure they have a proper radius. (soft lines)

I remember I had an issue a long time ago with the 'bird, and the soft line that ran from the sending unit to the hard line would collapse under load. I put a zip tie on the bend where it would get sucked together to help prevent it. Finally replaced it, but took some time to diagnose.

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See I'm having to make a decision on this pump also. But I'm only running 3/8 lines. Under hard acceleration it drops to 3.5 lbs. I'm still not convinced that going to 1/2 lines is going to help this. I'm running new hard line and rubber

I troll around on chevelles.com from time to time and noticed the same thing. The Chevy's dont't seem to have fuel delivery problems like we do. There are more than a few cars there running well into the 11's at 120 on stock lines & pumps. I started having trouble after breaking into the high 12's.

Heck my original 180 HP 7.5:1 '78 400 with just a cam change started having problems! My Camaro with a 370 HP 383 has done fine with a Holley and a hiflow mechanical pymp stock lines in the 12s.

Well ill jump in,had a 1/2 aluminum line bent to stock route with a Robb Mac 550. I also nosed the car over at 100mph so went to Russell 8an from tank to carb . Got the car into consistant 11:60s and was happy.There was that question of maybe running it lean at higher speeds.? I decided to do a check late in the year with a guage and well 6psi until 4k and then 4psi dipping to 3 just above 5k.
Hell with it just bought the Aeromotive drop in sys,so we shall see whwere it goes.
Chatting with Cliff last year on the phone and he said the same thing as he has also commented on this site..build your system for a car 2 seconds quicker and dont look back.

Ok, lemme get this straight, you had a 1/2 hard line from the tank to the pump, with the 550 pump, it would nose over, and when you ran a AN8 line tank to carb, it picked up? With no other change? And you had the 1/2" pickup? Ran the same level of fuel? And after you made the changes, you hooked up a gauge and you are still seeing a drop in psi?

If I would have to guess, it sounds like you have a vent problem. You might have been sucking a line flat before you went to the AN8 line too.

Are you running a late model non-vented cap? If so, try switching to an early vented cap. Maybe also try pulling a vent line from separator and leave it open, run the psi check again.

Maybe that's some of the difference from the Pontiacs to the Chevys, the caps the Chevys use are properly vented? Just guessing there, but makes sense.


EDIT: I just looked up part numbers for a 70 GTO 455 and compared to 70 Chevelle 454, non-CA emissions, and the GTO cap is non-vented, the Chevelle is vented.

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I have robbmc 1/2 INCH PICK UP, 550 PUMP AND 1/2 INCH LINE ALL THE WAY TO THE QUAD ALL STAINLESS EXCEPT PICK UP TO ROBBMC 100 MICRON FILTER, BODY CONNECTION AND FRAME TO PUMP. My car still goes to zero top of third (manual). My cap is vented, then drilled 1/8 inch hole through cap and then ultimately left cap just laying on. Nothing helps. Im going to a pusher. BTW all connections are tight and all parts are new. Please excuse caps im typing on phone

I have robbmc 1/2 INCH PICK UP, 550 PUMP AND 1/2 INCH LINE ALL THE WAY TO THE QUAD ALL STAINLESS EXCEPT PICK UP TO ROBBMC 100 MICRON FILTER, BODY CONNECTION AND FRAME TO PUMP. My car still goes to zero top of third (manual). My cap is vented, then drilled 1/8 inch hole through cap and then ultimately left cap just laying on. Nothing helps. Im going to a pusher. BTW all connections are tight and all parts are new. Please excuse caps im typing on phone

Well, that covers the vent question!

What about bends in the soft lines? Possible any area is getting sucked closed?

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It's not unusual for the pressure to drop 1, 2 or even 3 psi at full throttle with a 550HP pump because a regulator is not required. But if the pressure is dropping to ZERO, something is wrong. Since you seem to have checked everything else, ship the pump back to us and let us check it for you. Maybe a valve is being held open by a piece of debris. What is the fuel pressure at idle?

I have 6 and a half and 7 at an idle. I even capped off the return to see if that would help, but unchanged.