The Gold Car has a new caretaker
 

I am so completely stoked...Back when I was 15 years old in 1978 I would spend summers at my grandparents in Hart County, Ky. My grandfather was a subsistence farmer and raised 5 kids on whatever he could squeeze out of 114 acres. Four of the kids were boys and they all became engineers. A Phd Chemist, a Phd Nuclear, a Masters Metallurgical, and a BS Metallurgical. Growing up they all had to share a bed. My dad was the eldest and the first to die when I was 9 in a hunting accident. My mom was a saint (and still is), but I was angry ass as a teenager because....In the summers I got sent to the farm to give me and mom recuperation time.

It was great for a young boy. I spent summers fishing the local ponds, working the hay wagon on neighboring farms, shooting groundhogs, suckering and cutting tobacco, and smoking cigarettes in the caretaker shed of the Aetna Grove Baptist Church cemetery. My grandfather John Henry Bennett was my best friend. He was also a Pontiac man. In the summer of 1978 his 1974 Catalina needed to go to his dealer in Munfordville, Kentucky for service and a tune up. At the dealership in the showroom was a gold Trans Am. It was love at first sight. I took back to the farm with me a 1978 Pontiac sales brochure and every night I would lay in bed and look at that car and try to figure out what would be required, and how long it would take, to save enough money to buy it. At the end of the summer the brochure came home with me, but eventually the dream faded away and was replaced by other dreams.

As it turned out it would take 36 years before the dream became reality. Many cars have come before it, why I am not sure. I could have bought one long ago, hard work, determination and luck eventually meant that money wasn't the issue. I have the Green Truck, Red Car, Yellow Car and Black Car, but I never really chased the Gold Car. It seems sort of like one of those facebook romances between men and women who knew each other in High School and 30 years later connected on facebook. It started out innocently, but quickly became an obsession as they remembered what they wanted so long ago.

Well I wanted a Gold Car long ago, and now I have one. It should get delivered in the next 7 to 10 days and I can't wait. ....It's got all the good stuff - Y88, W72, WS6, M21, 3.42 Posi, tilt, gauges.....It a 53K survivor with original paint and pristine interior. It needs some work, mainly under the hood. There's something funky about the dark blue paint on the intake, and the guy who checked it out for me said the right side head also was that same dark blue. We'll see, it'll be part of the adventure and I look forward to that

Here's some pics....


http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psf526b7b7.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...pse04b0d36.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0618aaba.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps09fa1627.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psf7452252.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps06118345.jpg

Congrats!
Looks great!


:)

subscribed ;-)

Congrats Bob! I've been following your black car in the 70-73 section. I spend more time there than here, however that may change now! Just as I posted about Bruno's car, when it comes to 78s, Y88's w/400/stick and WS6, are the king! Looking forward to this thread.

Nice buy! Congratulations !!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for all the encouragement and congratulations. I'm really nervous and excited about the car. I've never bought a car sight unseen before, well the Black Car was somewhat sight unseen, but of course that was a little different with NJSteve and all. This car was on eBay and I posted a request in the Lobby here asking if anyone in the Portland area could inspect it for me. Within 15 minutes I had a PM from a very generous member.

The car came from an estate and the seller is a high end antique dealer in Portland. This car was owned by the son of a family he did he lot of business with. The son had died 15 years ago and the family had parked the car in a climate controlled garage and left it there for 15 years with 53K miles. Ultimately the antiques dealer ended up with it in February of this year. He had a mechanic go through it. Complete brake job, flush and fill all fluids, boil gas tank, replace fuel lines and sending unit, rebuild carb, tune up, et cetera. He also had the car detailed inside and out.

Well, my volunteer PY inspector went and looked the car over and drove it. He reported back that the paint and interior were great, but that the clutch was horrible, the brake light was on, and the car seemed to run rough. I decided to pass. Pretty quickly I started getting non-buyers remorse. After two days I was convinced that I had made a mistake. I called the seller and before I could even start talking about a purchase he thanks me for having had someone come and look at the car and identify the clutch and brake light issue. He had immediately sent the car back to the mechanic and gotten both items fixed.

I talked to the mechanic the next morning and he said that he had found a broken spring in the pressure plate and ended up installing a new clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing. The brake light issue was the proportioning valve. Once again my volunteer PY inspector agreed to go and drive the car. This time his report was much improved, with him reporting that all problems were fixed and that car ran and drove very well. The only negative item was that the tires seemed flat spotted. The deal was struck with the seller and the title arrived yesterday. I'm not sure exactly when the car will get here, but I can't wait to see it in person and get started...

I have already gotten a quote on repop Polysteel Goodyears and will order them as soon as I get confirmation from Smallhurst the tire dealer. The driver door keeper which holds it open is broke and will require attention, and the mechanic did not replace the shocks and that will need done. I would like to get the shocks ordered so I can replace them while the car is on the lift with the wheels off for replacement. Does anyone have a good recommendation for a WS6 car?

Here's the original ebay ad for the Gold Car. Happy Fathers Day guys and thanks again for the all the kind comments.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Tran...US_Cars_Trucks

Shocks
 

Ok, so I searched this section of the Forum and while not unanimous, a majority recommended the Bilstein shocks. I've got a set ordered and soon on the way from Summit Racing. One of the advantages of where I live in WV is that standard shipping from both Jegs and Summit Racing arrives the next day. Pretty cool.

Now for another shock question....What is the correct factory color for shocks on a 1978 TA? Even though they won't look completely correct, I would like to paint the Bilstein shocks to make them appear more original. I appreciate the help.

:D.

???? I can tell your excited. BTW I would have just gone with something like monroe sensi-tracs or similar as that was close to stock, unless your headed to watkins glen


ah, see you fixed it...nice car!

Semi-gloss black...............for WS6 shocks...

FWIW.....in the past I had bought some decent AC Delco shocks for that application.

Have no idea if they are still available.....

Yeah, I still have the Black Car on the brain...It will take a while to retrain myself to remember that there are F-Bodies from years other than 1972.

I don't see Watkins Glen in my future, but I'll try to drive to Krogers and Dairy Queen in an extra spirited fashion on the weekends. At 51 years old I'll probably never buy another set of shocks for this car, so at least I shouldn't be disappointed...

Good deal. I remember, when I was younger, a guy across the street bought one of those new. Always did like those. Who knew they would turn out to be somewhat rare. And, the `78, 3.42 gear vs. the 3.23 for `77/`79.

just got on here a bit late. but that is one beautiful car. congrats on the purchase.

Thanks MC, I'm really excited and cannot wait to see the car. It was supposed to load today and transit to WV will take 6 days. Regrettably I will be out of town on business all next week and won't get to see it until Friday night or Saturday. I hope it looks as good in person.

Smallhurst has shipped the Polysteel tires, and I have already received the "correct" body side molding for a Y88 from Hitman's site. The car was not ordered with molding, but at some point aftermarket screw on channels with black rubber were added. I don"t think it's possible to remove the molding and simply patch the screw holes, but that would be ideal. Assuming it's not possible, I will add the stick on molding with tan inserts.

Enjoy the suspense....it's a good thing and your new toy is well worth the wait.

A couple things to entertain your brain while waiting......if you like.

About 5 years ago,I thought I was going to "freshen up" one of the 78's engine compartments........I stalled on the project when I realized that NONE of the 5? available "so called" correct engine paint rattle cans were close enough to use on an original appearing car....hopefully that has changed....if you do some research,let us know what you find.....

Also,if you haven't already,you may want to look up Randy Combs....

He can do an AWESOME job of freshening up your gold engine turned gauge bezel.

Sc*ew you, really, buzz off, I hate you... :D

Seriously, I love the car and am about as jealous as I can get. The identical car with an automatic was my first real car, I loved that car and miss it.

Good call with the Bilsteins, they perform so much better than the stock shock, you will be happy.

Congrats!

Oh no! Here we go again! ;)

Dave - thanks. I loved your intro - caught me a little off guard. I thought "oh Sh_t, what did I do now..."

No worries, I won't get carried away again....,but now that I think about it....

Well the parts are rolling in, but the car is not...

The car is now on the truck and rolling around Washington state as the transporter fills his truck. The new estimated time of arrival is Friday or Saturday of next week. This actually works pretty well since I will not be returning from my trip until next Friday. However, I was hoping that My Pal Dave could get the tires switched over next week while I was gone so we could jump right into the shocks and tire installation once I returned. Oh well...He did say the car was totally bada_s and in great condition. I got all puffed up, but my wife said the driver probably tells everyone that same story. She's only mildly tolerant....

Meanwhile the Polysteel tires have arrived and are ready along with the body side molding. Has anyone ever installed the 3M adhesive backed molding from Hitman's site or elsewhere? I have some some Probond Adhesive promoter I would like to use, but I wonder what experience other people have with the installation. Also, what is the correct cut on the ends where it transitions from each fender to the door? Is it a 90 degree cut, or should it be beveled to 45 degrees or something? Help....

I also ordered a bunch of other crap today for underhood cleanup. New radiator cap, correct heater hoses and tower clamps, and fuel line with foam insulation.

Give me help on the molding please. Here's some pictures.

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps99pjntav.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psus6irw3w.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psj7qdpk59.jpg

thought the molding came with pre-made ends

The molding does have pre-made ends front and rear, but it is manufactured as a continuous piece from front to back. Therefore, you have to cut from this continuous piece three pieces - front fender, door, and rear fender.

My question is in regard to these cuts which land on both sides of the door/fender gaps. Should these cuts be 90 degrees, or do they have a bevel to them? Hopefully someone has an original paint car with original molding and they can get a picture of the area in question.

Thanks.

Why not just leave the aluminum moldings? That was an upgrade in the day. My 78 had the plastic/rubber ones I got door dings right through them. I realize at this this stage of the game for you that's not going to be a problem.

right, wasnt the stick on type dealer installed?, if so could be either way

The general consensus is that that body colored stick on was the factory applied molding and the screw on channel with inserts was dealer applied. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but everyone seems to be on board with that fact. There are several threads on this forum that discuss this issue.

I would rather not have the molding, but if I must I prefer the color keyed stick on with the correct bullet ends.

Somewhere I found a link that contained the lengths and location dimensions for each piece as done by the factory, but I cant relocate that link and I didn't bookmark it. If anyone has an original paint car with the stick on moldings I would really appreciate pictures showing the end cuts and a sketch with dimensions and locations. This may be in the assembly manual, but I don't have one for a 78 Fbody yet.

congrats
 

Glad you were finally able to fill a childhood dream/goal. When those cars came out, I was 10.. I always loved them. Parents took me to lake Erie, and I saw a 71 blue ta cruising the beach.. that started the fever for me.. I evently, tracked down what I think was that car. A shell of it former self. Paint white, rough. Eventually, sold, just bought back orig 1267, that was on it...
Your TA looking amazing.. that are great place to get cars.. my f bodies 70 and up, are van nuys cars.. wash state great for cars...
Where are the colored moldings available?

X's 2 Congrats http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=104

That's the car we where gabbing about on the Y88 thread. Nice grab. I'm dying to see the underside picts of that machine. Glad to see you ordered tires for it. It sure needs those. If its everything its claimed to be I thing $25K is decent buy. Seems to needs very little to be 100%

Can't wait to see pictures when it shows up.

Well the car should be here by 5:00 pm today and I can't wait to get it on the lift and check the underside myself. The car is supposed to be 100% original and the mechanic reported that the underbody had not been undercoated. However, it is one part of the car I have not seen any pictures of. I'll be sure to post some pictures this evening.

I am also anxious to inspect the right side head and the intake, as my inspector reported they were painted a much darker blue. The head is a 6X-4 head, but I want to see the date code. The intake should be a 10003395 PN which needs checked as well as the date code.

If someone could give me a short course on understanding the date code methodology for the head and intake I would be appreciative. The car is a June 1978 build.

Bob,
The date code will be first a letter (for month designation), followed by number for the day, then a number for the year.
example: C 25 8 would be March 25th 1978

It would great if the dates all fell within a few weeks of each other, but if not, doesn't necessarily mean they are not original to the car IMO. But the heads normally are very close to each other in date. I believe there are times though when these engines went together at the factory & one head came from an old casting lot, & the other from a fresh lot of castings. But still close in date, they sure wouldn't be months apart. At least thats what I found with my cars.


If I was taking a wild guess, I would predict your
Intake & heads to be something between E018 & F098 The block will probably have a mid/late 1977 casting. The same 4X heads were used on earlier 350's so if it was replaced it could be a mid 70's date even though the W72's didn't exist yet.

Looking forward to your posted images and info once received. It's like Christmas in June, eh? :thumbup:

Update - ETA 7:00pm edt
 

Man this is dragging out like a bad book...Late start out of Clarksville Tennessee. New ETA of 7:00pm. Sort of like waiting for a mail order bride. Not that I have first hand experience....

Post up the video of it coming off the trailer.....and then your burnout. :D

Hell, I'm excited for the arrival and its not even my car!

The car is cool. Dinner is late. The wife is mad. I am happy, happy, happy...

Here you go guys. Click on the picture for video. More later...


http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...pspvqdgqqx.jpg

The good, the bad, and the ugly
 

The good.

There is lots of good stuff on this car. First and foremost the car runs great. Starts right up, runs strong and spins the tires. The exterior is in good shape as is the glass, the interior is in great shape, the trunk looks like new, and the underside is fantastic. There is plenty of grease, grime and oil, but almost no rust. The stripes are still on the driveshaft, the rear springs still show the stenciled part numbers and the floor pan is in great shape. With respect to the floor pan, there is undercoating, but it is hit and miss and almost looks factory. Did the factory apply undercoating to the floor pans? Where there is no undercoating there is zero rust. It's pretty clean...Here are a few pictures of the good.

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psoulw5cos.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psbslrmgaf.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psee8c237e.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...pspe3ce1lh.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7y699vso.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psrxyk7eei.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psualeciq3.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6s7kgioj.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psvabyaubf.jpg

The bad
 

Now for the bad.

Several issues that immediately jump out. The exhaust system is crap from the manifolds to the muffler. The car has a true dual exhaust with no catalytic converter. The installation was shoddy to start with and time has not helped it any. It will be replaced very soon, but I need some suggestions on good systems for a 1978. On the transmission the dust cover is missing - if any one has a dust cover please send me a pm. The engine really leaks oil and the rear main seal will need to be addressed this winter. The paint shows more wear than you would like, but at the same time it looks pretty darn good for a 53K mile survivor. The drivers side window needs adjusted, and the sway bar end link bushings are totally missing. All in all - not too shabby. here's some pics.

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...pszjcz725j.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps74ss6wcu.jpg

All in all it looks like a very nice T/A. A little TLC on the underside will really make a difference and should clean up nicely. Curious about the sheet metal extension on the pass. side of the subframe? That's a new one on me.
Congrats Bob it looks right at home in the garage!

AWESOME burnout! :D

Most of the same issues I'm dealing with on my 73, I would like to clean off the undercoating and have the factory primer pans too - but that's a project for another day.

Any more of those F-bodies in that garage & we're going to start calling it the Birds Nest! ;)

Looking good & congrats again.

IMO & '78 T/A 6.6 W72 WS6 experience - note:

- the missing end link bushings were urethane from the factory for WS6. IIRC most ALL parts books will just show standard rubber end-link bushings which will work but without the urethanes the difference in handling is like night and day. A simple fix that dramatically increases suspension performance as designed by Herb Adams & Pontiac Engineering for WS6.

- the stamped subframe extension was installed as a heat shield for fuel lines from the OEM CatCon that was offset and positioned in the passenger footwell area.

- exhaust replacement is what you want it to be IMO. Personally both our T/A's have true dual w Dynomax Turbo style Muffs w factory Splitter tips. The '78 has a simple "H" pipe with factory manifolds...and ran 14:89 @ 95mph w closed shaker ;)

I really love your thread! Great score, and rare too, less than 1300 made. Yours looks like I envisioned my 78 looking after being restored. I bought a 78 Solar Gold T/A, but without the Y88 package and T-tops, needing a total cosmetic restoration. Sadly, too many other Firebird projects and not enough room so I'm going to have to try and sell her without seeing her transformed to looking like yours.

Oh, and IMHO, I wouldn't change out the body side molding. The insert with the metal channels is much neater IMO, even if the insert starts looking a bit aged.

Check out a 1978 PONTIAC SERVICE MANUAL Exhaust System

pages 6F-9 (Fig. 6F-12 F Series Exhaust Systems Chart),
pages 6F-10 (Fig. 6F-13 Exhaust Manifold Connections F-Series) (Fif. 6F-14 Converter Attachments F Series),
pages 6F-11 (Fig. 6F-16 Dual Exhaust System F Series),
Pages 6F-12 (Fig. 6F-17 Dual Tail Pipes Muffler and Attachments F Series Vin codes Z...)

- The factory installed manifold "EFE Valve" is usually long gone
- Note the 2-piece bracket hangers used to support the heavy OEM CatCon from the Trans crossmember, also usually tossed long ago
- Factory exhaust Muffs were "Turbo" short style

Interesting the factory manual lacks the illustration and documentation of the W72 Automatic Trans Only Dual Resonator exhaust...but that's not a concern for your 4-spd Y88.

Hope this info helps.

Nice survivor car Bob! That will be a fun one to document and decipher.

Alvin cut back on the coffee....

O-tay Buckwheat!
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f.../buckwheat.jpg

Alvin - keep drinking the coffee. I appreciate your help.

Mike - thanks for the kind words. Underhood this one has more needs than the Sundance Kid.

Well, it took all of 15 hours in my possession before the car was rendered inoperable. The process has begun...Mission creep is on the horizon and I can taste it. Before My Pal Dave and I tore into it though we took the car on a 15 mile run and I've got to say I am really pleased. Despite the sway bar issue and 15 year old out of round tires, this car is tight. It also is surprisingly powerful and the engine runs very good despite needing some serious tuning, and despite there being a number of unplugged vacuum lines that are disconnected. In addition, the distributor cap was only half secured. This car will do fine once its had some attention. The foundation is great with no discernible issues. The interior is incredible, with the only nits being the gold gauge bezel and the sunvisors which have "floppy" vinyl on them. Everything works - clock, lighter and eight track included. Pretty damn awesome...

The carb, intake, heads and block are all the right numbers, and the block VIN checks out. While I thought that the intake and right head had mismatched paint, it is actually just the intake and valley pan. They are the right pieces, but they have been painted navy blue??? MPD and I are wondering based on the way this thing runs if at some point last century there may have been a cam swap. It is difficult to imagine why someone would have had the intake and valley pan out otherwise and they were clearly painted while off of the engine. The date codes on the heads are B098 and B038. The intake is L087.

I'm going to need a lot of help figuring this thing out and finding all the pieces. I appreciate all the help in the past, and all the help to come. I'll have some more focused posts coming that drill down on specific issues and questions. For now, here's a few pics.
The last two pictures show two vacuum points neither of which are hooked up. If anyone has any education to provide on these, please do so.


http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8rvaehys.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psiiiveckn.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psyg48k22e.jpg

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...psfuwmsl3n.jpg

I have about a dozen vacuum line detail pics I can email you....from a reasonably "unmolested" 78 W72......

Your temp/vac switch beside thermostat housing looks wrong....or the top is broke off.

Thxs BentWheel :p :thumbup:

The ported vacuum switch on the front of the intake manifold should be bright blue...and here's some easy "tuning" info you may find interesting and has always "worked like a charm" on my T/A 6.6's:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...7&d=1404086214
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...8&d=1404086265
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...9&d=1404086310
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...0&d=1404086390

Exhaust System
 

I'm trying to piece together the exhaust system and want to go with a 2.5" system. I've looked at the Dynomax mufflers and like them, but need help on either side of the muffler. I was going to get the Pypes system, but unless you get the X-Pipe system the muffler back tailpipe setup is not engineered for splitters. I don't really want to go with the X-pipe, so that would appear to rule Pypes out since the splitters are a must.

Questions:

1)If I can purchase from the Mufflers through the spiltters prebent from an online supplier, couldn't a local exhaust shop just bend the pipes from the manifolds to the muffler inlet.

2) Any recommendation on suppliers for the over axle pipes running from the muffler outlet to the splitters?

3) Same on splitters. Whose got the best pieces?

I appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Bob

I'm certainly no expert, and many here can provide you more detailed info of current sources. Below are MOs. Hope it helps by giving you some ideas.

Questions:

1)If I can purchase from the Mufflers through the spiltters prebent from an online supplier, couldn't a local exhaust shop just bend the pipes from the manifolds to the muffler inlet.

Yes, since they won't be as original anyway - YPipe to CatCon - on 1978's. OR, you could source earlier 2nd Gen pipes for a 1974 manifolds to mufflers.

2) Any recommendation on suppliers for the over axle pipes running from the muffler outlet to the splitters?

Have you called PY and ask them with respect telling them you do not want an X-Pipe?
Check local GM dealer parts sources?
Gardner Exhaust?
Local exhaust shops...
I have old Year One Catalogs from the 90's that listed the OEM tailpipes & splitters...was same time they still sold factory sheet metal, etc.

Make sure you get them - tailpipes - with the tabs on the tailpipes that slide into the rubber lined hangers.

3) Same on splitters. Whose got the best pieces?

Splitters have been around for a long time from various sources, check the gauge of metal and the chrome plating.


I appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Bob

PS: sorry for the PM inbox full, I keep it that way got tired of PITA PMs from Dillion...;)