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1971 Norwood resurrection
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No tag on the radiator, but could this have been part of it? I didn't notice this bit has some numbers stamped on it until I looked at this picture. Anyone know what they indicate, if anything? It is uneven along the right edge and looks like something broke off of it. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxcuxambe.jpg One tank has CV, with a little E in between. I never knew where to look until recently. The letters sure don't initially stand out and I thought the radiator was probably not original so I paid little attention to it all this time. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuyymjo3a.jpg Other tank is IF http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psy6beozsv.jpg It is a 3 row core but I can't get a good picture through the hose connections but you can tell it is thinner than your average 4 core radiator. The overflow hose is not great but still has the 3 ribs running down the side of it. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjvtctarj.jpg Radiator shroud is 086. Dirty/dusty but in decent condition. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnul0tqec.jpg Hose retainer is still intact and tabs are all there. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pskf25fnx9.jpg Has those mold marks on the top trailing edge that some have talked about. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgqlgqtkd.jpg How do I freshen the shroud without messing with the marks? Anyone deal with that before? Shaker drain hose was even still there. Some marks on the bottom portion, but all there and still very pliable. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps0mtrwrlq.jpg |
New thread please with lots of pictures.
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Might as well document some of this stuff up front. VIN 228871N103459 http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7af4sldv.jpg Build date 09A - 201 trim - 11 paint The build date will probably explain some things so I thought it would be good to mention up front. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1nfak8bs.jpg Hidden VIN stamp http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgg3ljw4u.jpg WC block with C048516 engine unit number http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...d/DSC00306.jpg Partial VIN stamp on engine block http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqohlwc0f.jpg Partial VIN stamp on good old M22 rockcrusher transmission. Also shows it is Muncie (P) destined for a 1971 Production Car (1) August (M) 25th (25) M22 (C) http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgc8i7sed.jpg The underneath side of the intake manifold has a date of 8-6-70 (August 6th, 1970). http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxktgywox.jpg 483674 intake. It has a plug in that one hole that I need to remove or have removed. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psyx62lkux.jpg Nice crisp Winters logo http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pseeniq3ww.jpg Here is the top side of the clutch and brake pedal support bracket assembly that attaches to the instrument panel support. 8 5 70 date (August 5th, 1970). I know some of these are obvious. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps3qawtbr3.jpg I've had the 1971 assembly manual for a number of years now because Year One offered it fairly early on. What got me initially about the 3991763 part number is it did not agree with the assembly manual which says the Bracket Assembly is 3996355. But, up in the upper right hand corner is those pesky hand written notes and there it has the 3991763 part number. Looks like they changed to the new part number on 9/10/70 if I'm reading that correctly. Anyway, obviously they were using the older part number in the first part of August. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...sc9c2619c.jpeg |
Awesome stuff!
Do you know the date code on the block? I think we had a thread on the radiator tanks code somewhere here on PY. (I think HFR had some good info on them) I'll see if I can find it if someone doesn't post first. Very cool thread. :) |
IF is the correct lh tank code for a 4 core. IA was the 3 core lh tank used. CV is the code for a rh man trans tank, either 3 core or 4 core. Your rh tank has the letter E embossed & that signifies the tank was made in May, usually the radiator is assembled same month or slightly afterwards. The shroud i would have to ck my originals. Bill posted a chart for 70 model shrouds last week.
I'm in need of a CV coded rh tank for one of my longtime projects if anyone reads this & has an extra. Cash buyer or possible trade for what you need. |
Any chance you have a whole picture of the topic car?
Subscribing. |
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Thanks Roger. I was IM'ing with Telly last night and the conversation went like this - Chad: CV is one rad tank. What this other tank? I see an "I" and something else. Telly: F Chad: Ah, I was upside down to it. Yep. So, thought from that it must be an F from the conversation. But, at first I thought it was VI as I was reading it upside down. Flip the V over and you have the makings of an A. |
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http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...hp?albumid=251 |
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I had to go look at the block this morning to make sure I didn't misstate this. It is simply H31. Roger said this in a PM to me from some time ago. He said N104xxx build without knowing my VIN at the time, which is not 4xxx but 3459. Pretty got dang close. Quote:
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Thanks |
The link works now. As rough as it looks in the pics, it looks like a great car!
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Well,Chad....it's about time you dusted that one off..............
Last month I started tinkering on a 72 that I bought back in 89........hadn't started it in years.......a bit of TLC and it lit right up....just like I shut it off a month ago...... Did you wanna have a RACE to see who gets done FIRST? :D |
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'problem with engaging in useless activity is never knowing when your done' And I can't even see the finish line from here...yet! What's the plan for the '72? Full restoration or ?? |
Thank God the car never got turned into an AutoX car. Leave that to the Firebirds and Esprits :D
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I am not tired of build threads or pictures. Go for it!!
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Looking forward to seeing some progress!
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The one I just lit,was a driver that I took apart for body and paint before the turn of the century......was going to color change it...(11 to 26).... and stalled.....it's an auto...saddle interior...with one of those funny tape decks.....:D The other one I bought in Jan 2000...in pieces....code 11...black standard interior, M22 and rear console..... Didn't really have a direction on EITHER until a month ago..... The automatic car will remain true to invoice/cowl tag......and the stick will be color changed to 26....(couldn't find a decent,affordable blue one to buy....so I'm gonna make one!) Both cars will be built to "detailed driver" level...... I don't have the time or patience for building perfectly restored cars..(OR thinking that I do.......and am tired of ones that don't run or drive....:old: Interesting sidenote.......Both of them were built in late Sept/71 and the VIN's are 12 #'s apart......likely were in sight of each other on the assembly line......now they sit on my assembly line....side by each....waiting to get put back together again....42 years later... Sorry to "jack" your thread....but you DID ask......:focus: NOW....can we talk about my truck? :D |
Very cool pix.
Love that a early 71 is being documented. Early block date H31 missing the year? |
no year date number
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John are you answering my question? Makes most sense.
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Why couldn't it be August 3? |
Chris, I believe that because of the early WC cast numbers makes it a 70. So Aug 31 1970 makes sense and vin helps that deduction.
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You guys all OK with that so far? When in doubt I fall back to what Roger said.
So here's some more "project progress pictures". Say that ten times fast!!! Water pump casting number 482138 with the large "71" cast into it. Slight nick in the spacer mounting surface. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psksvaaeaw.jpg Dated G020 (July 2, 1970). A Thursday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscelpsp0o.jpg I also came across an NOS in the box 9790522 part number 1.069 group number water pump. This is the 482138 casting number. Same pump using either number. I saved the gasket off in a folder so it wouldn't get smashed. 9790522 1.069 All V/8 .................. PUMP (w/gasket) 1 1971 1971 1-8 http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psy5j194gb.jpg Also has "71" cast into it. Also the 482138 casting number. Bolt holes are unused. Spacer mounting surface has no nicks. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psm29kvfnt.jpg This one is dated G060 (July 6, 1970). A Monday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps2wj9d14w.jpg LH exhaust manifold 478141 LH - Looks like an H240 (August 24, 1970). A Monday. . http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psiyo0mcax.jpg Getting a good picture of the date code is elusive. Does it help to be further away? I almost think so. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pssxezca6e.jpg RH exhaust manifold 9799721 RH - This one is dated G060 (July 6, 1970). A Monday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psymhcpxlv.jpg Here's another item restored some time back by 70RAIII. The booster was covered in black paint before I sent it to him. He said it was a nice one with no pitting. Slight ding in the lid and I'm not sure that lid is original or not. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps6lo8rmed.jpg Has the "EB" on the forward snout. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxuhn6moa.jpg Drilled and tapped bosses, "PM" stamping on the proportioning vale bracket. He does nice work, no question. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspwhe8sqn.jpg 195 on the back side of the 12 o'clock tab. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslu9sot9r.jpg 236 on the front side of the same tab. This is 236th day of 1970 (August 24th, 1970). Another Monday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psep2icdhh.jpg 5470409 casting number, 1 1/8 for the diameter, the D9 and down at the far end is another 236. I assume this is the same date as on the tab above. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psaezrvvuh.jpg That's it for tonight. Gotta go mow the lawn. |
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Looking good
Looks good. Nice progress. I am starting one of my 71 455 HO cars and it is good to see a documented car with original parts. Love the M22 Code tranny. I have one too.
Keep posting and we will keep givin you support. Will be a nice car when you get it finished. |
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Thanks for that extra info added there and for all your help with the distributor and power brakes. I'm hoping you'll do me another one or two along the way. If you read this can I hit you with a quick PM or e-mail about one need? |
OK, here's what's going on with front suspension portion of the project. A long time ago I got these NOS upper control arms. Ball joints are riveted in. They come painted all black and at the time I was not aware of the dipping they did at the factory that left the tip unpainted. So I could try to replicate that some. It mocks up fairly well so far.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psv5cd33oc.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmqj2nplo.jpg OR I could go a slightly different route here. This is, at least, one of those "choices". So I could probably go either way. I've got the original upper control arms. They both have the old ball joints removed and are glass beaded. Still need a bit of clean up but not too bad. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqouimrtq.jpg One is dated coded 0 G 30 (July 30, 1970). A Thursday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvdpd3ruz.jpg Other is dated coded 0 H 18 (August 18th, 1970). A Tuesday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslfdfth1y.jpg I do have a pair of the 3986009 upper ball joints. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psp8f7thou.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslcoyuamb.jpg And also a pair of the 6259679 upper control arm shaft kits. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscb7nigbg.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psd6nmeabm.jpg I wouldn't be able to go without riveting in the new ball joints. Bolts just wouldn't seem right. I just found out recently that Scott Tiemann can rivet ball joints in. Should I use the original control arms or the NOS ones? I guess some of that depends on whether or not Scott would be willing to help me out. ==================== Now here's a similar situation I need to get taken care of with the lower control arms. I don't have any NOS lowers to fall back on, so there's that, too. I do have the original lowers all apart and blasted. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psneohedez.jpg They both have a large "A" on them but I don't know what that would indicate. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjrk7y6gr.jpg One is dated 0 G 29 (July 29th, 1970). A Wednesday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psekifjlua.jpg One is dated 0 H 4 (August 4th, 1970). A Tuesday. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrecqsejy.jpg The front and rear bushings are NOS with Harris Silentblock on them but I don't have boxes. They do seem like they will press in nice and tight. And the bolts that pass through them fit perfect. No real concerns there other than a hint of flash rust on one of them that I need to clean off. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psih8e2rog.jpg I also have a pair of 9756251 lower ball joints http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7xr1gozz.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pskvqu03cj.jpg But, they are too loose by exactly ten thousands of an inch. I know the lower ball joints were replaced at some time and the honed out the opening for aftermarket ball joints. In fact I still have those ball joints and they fit nice and tight. Is there anything that could positively be done to the opening on the lower control arm that the ball joint passes through to close it down ten thousands? There is plenty of load bearing material to support the ball joint and they wouldn't pull through, no way. They would just be slightly loose in the hole and I can't do that. I'd appreciate any advice or thoughts on those two items. Thanks Chad |
Corvette Specialities or something like that in Sheboyghan Falls Wisc. will rivet upper ball joints for $45 each side. did great work on the 2 sets I sent them.The lower ball joint is always a problem once you remove the originals. I am only guessing here, but think the removal of the originals opens up the holes just enough that when you try to install NOS lower ball joints,they are always loose. I have tac welded in the inside,know one guy who tac welded on the ball joints mating surface then ground down to gain that difference.. your problem is a common problem is what I am trying to say. your solution will involve a welder one way or another.. good luck.. and call the Corvette place, they did a 2 day turn around and didn't scratch my freshly painted arms.. great job for the cost..
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AHHHH...Bill, I can do the rivets.;)
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Bill, have you seen different fonts used in the stamping of the eb? Is the pictured the correct in your opinion?
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Yes. I have seen a smaller,almost like a currently stamped font,and the large stamped font as shown here.I will say the one shown here I have never seen from a Pontiac except a Firebird.The smaller font I have seen from Firebird's and GTO's. Guess what I am saying, every time I received a smaller font master cylinder to restore,it came off a GTO except twice off Firebird's. I bet I received 40++ of the large font master cylinders all from Firebirds.I don't know if I am correct or not, but I believe,at least 70-71 models,that the large EB is the correct for Firebird's and the small EB is for GTO's. GTO's used the exact same mater cylinder in 70-71 model years as Firebird's did. I had a guy with a GTO swap me his smaller font because he thought it was a restamp. I explained to him what I had experienced and that his smaller font was correct for his GTO,but he was dead set he needed the large EB. Funny thing, 6 months later he called asking if I still had the small EB.The "experts" at a show told him the small was correct not the large.. funny..Craig.. why are you asking??
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http://amkproducts.com/bulk3.asp?part=B%2D10775 Not sure what you'd think of those. Can I send you a PM? Quote:
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Oh, I meant to say that I got this brochure from Hanson Rivet in California. They have a machine that would probably do the trick there on the left, or one that looks basically like it. Don't really need one for the limited use. I'd have to start doing lots of other peoples to ever pay it off.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps9ufuhf4p.jpg My aunt called me the other day in desperate need of a new computer since she is still on XP and IE 8 and her bank started blocking her. Today I set up a network between the new and old computers and did the whole configure and transfered all her files and favorites. Set up new shortcuts on the Start screen. I hadn't touched Windows 8.1 until today. Took quite a long time and so we went to lunch there near where she lives. Boeing has always had a huge presence in Washington state and especially in the city of Renton near this place we were on Lake Washington. It was one of their original locations from way back. They still build the 737 there and I remember my Dad in commercial construction had a job doing a rework on some office space, which is right inside the plant on sort of a upstairs balcony overlooking the plant floor. He got to bring us kids in for a tour one day and here we were up on this balcony about 4 or 5 stories up overlooking all these planes being built with several HUGE gantry cranes overhead. Anyway, that building is in the background in at least one of these pictures. When they finish with a 737 at the plant they bring them across a bridge and use the Renton Municipal Airport for the first flight. That same airport is used by lots of small planes, too. Including float planes. But, there is no dock for the float planes to even tie up next to. And the water is shallow on that end of the lake with lots of trees sitting on sandbars. So they have this fleet of pickup trucks with trailers that they use many times a day to bring the float planes in and to launch them on this "boat" ramp. That no boats ever use. These are some of the trucks they use. Supposedly the only airport in the country that uses trucks like this. This is not photoshopped, I promise. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps4b7bgvbn.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psceptsufn.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjas0lcmr.jpg A different angle. This one has little wheelie rollers under the back end. The older Chevy has tailpipes out the back. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psprobjm7d.jpg Another chevy over there in the distance. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psb9thzrt8.jpg And a silver Ford. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspwdvirgv.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswdn9oe8h.jpg Just thought you might enjoy some of those pictures. :cool: :focus: Ya, OK. Back to topic.... Thermostat housing 478144 ready for paint. Some pitting under the radiator hose area. Otherwise, not bad. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7y9mw8em.jpg And some fresh, what should be NOS, 1969-1970 RAIV and 1971-1972 455HO intake manifold crossover washers. I should have bought dozens of these at the time. I know I paid less than $3.50 each, probably around $2.00. Nice square shoulders. I dunno, you tell me. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnbtuxify.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pshe4gntb4.jpg |
Pm me for my info if you want me to do the rivets. I have presses up to 100 tons.
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Bill I ask about the font because I currently have two eb's and they have the small font. And who better to ask then you
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CRaig.. I say the small EB is more than likely from a GTO.. As I said in earlier post, a couple 2 or 3 that I have seen from Firebirds had the small EB, but am not sure these were originals to those cars.May have just been found by FB owners and sent to me for resto.. I think the "community" accepts both as correct, they are metered the same so either will work ..if available, I would suggest the large font on our 70-71 FB's.. can't confirm if 72's used EB's, think they did.. not positive though.. others more familiar with 72 model years can speak to this.
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I'm loving every bit oif this thread! Learned something already. I didn't know Harris made the control arm bushings. I thought I'd seen Saginaw on those.
How about the master cylinder color, guys? I thought we were leaning towards a light shot of black spray vs. a natural metal look. Is this one of tbose could have been done either way deals? |
'ric.. I agree that semi gloss lacquer black is correct. I did this work for Chad,I bet every bit of 4-5 years ago. It wasn't until a couple years back that I finally "saw the light" on the masters having black paint originally.So that grey color is my bad,not Chads.. Chad you should hit it with a single coat of black. It still has the plastic port covers I sent,just turn it upside down, and spray it.Wouldn't worry about using a rattle can on this part, get semi lacquer from NAPA or similar place..
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From what I have seen the 72 f bodys did sport the small EB at least thats where mine came from. :hooray:
Also after you paint that master black send it to a machine shop (or Craig ;))and have those machined areas cleaned up on a mill for the original look. That front stamped area will have to cleaned up with stripper and protected before that repaint though. Love the selection of parts and options. Restoring a car now a days to an original level is hard, time consuming and expensive route. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing with us all! Brew Quote:
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linking in. good info for when I get to mine.
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How about GM's supplier(s) for control arm bushings? Could there have been multiple suppliers of these for "F" bodies as there was for "A" bodies?
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Thanks all for your help and encouragement. Here's some more intake related stuff. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps0m3aclkt.jpg Here's the stove pipe elbow part number 481991 for the right side of the engine. Should be original. They are a bit thicker metal than the reproductions that I've held. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps21y8f7z0.jpg Here's one you might call BS on me about, but this car when I got it, had a thin lip shaker scoop. I know there was some carryover from 1970 and it says some of that in the assembly manual but I couldn't find the section I was looking for yet. It seems to be in nice shape. No cracks. Getting close to ready for paint, but now I was reading how Mr. Norwood redoes those, too. Well, take a look. Part number molded into the underside 481689 http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psudpg9s1r.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxp1zbslw.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1bi68tga.jpg The flapper door works very smoothly. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psd8gemedm.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslq2xn9yg.jpg Do you think some repair work done here? Seems like a lot of sealer. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psq6n3jfor.jpg A hole on the trailing edge that I believe is for the ground strap that runs to the firewall. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswmuuknfs.jpg The old seal is still in decent shape. It's got a bit of overspray on the backside but is still very pliable. I could probably bend it into a figure 8 if I wanted to. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pshownpmrx.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswvcosx3l.jpg Part number molded into it. 481697 http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdb2gjl0z.jpg Yes, pliable enough for a figure 8... http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psfugz2ahi.jpg Air cleaner top lid has been blasted and painted. Too shiny? This is part of 6486669 http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps8v3o5tva.jpg Underneath side http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuswjwwoi.jpg One of 2Manys favorite parts. The 481991 pipe. I primed this after blasting to keep it from flash rusting. What was the thought on the finish for these tubes? http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspztbonww.jpg This is visually the same duct as 479482 and 483652 but is the replacement 9797496 part. It should fil the void. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrugai0ix.jpg Here's a 479212 elbow with the flat at the bend for clearance. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrenxoiez.jpg http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psepijwn80.jpg And an original with tower clamp. I'll try to get a close up of that later but it is a 2 5/8" Wittek with a 4/70 date on it. That's about the oldest thing I've seen on it yet. Not positive that is original. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psaczm6evl.jpg The old heat riser shroud. I've had some of these parts replated by a local cad shop (twice now) but they always start to turn a light green over time. Maybe I need a new cad plater. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvesmkkls.jpg And the shroud from passengers stove. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdgi5r2vg.jpg The 3959115 Switch Assembly for the shaker flapper activation. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszadfnduq.jpg And the 9788460 Clip (same as 9796744) to hold the switch to the bracket. http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1qs6ff3w.jpg More soon..... |
When you paint the master, just take some blue painters tape, place over the flats where the ports are, and then paint it. Many think GM machined those flats after painting, even heard hotshot professional restorers say this. My take is they didn't do machining after painting. I think the master cylinder was machined,ports assembled then to protect the ports from getting paint they put tape over the flats,which is why we all see originals with that flats unpainted.
Use Aero Propellar in Blooomfield Colorado for your cadmium plating. Ask for Chris.. His work is what is on your brake booster, really does great work. I have silver parts he did 4-5 years ago and they still look perfect.. |
Bill might be correct regarding the flat machined areas however this unit has already been painted thus machining or stripping is the only options. Mine was bead blasted and left a rough finish thus the need for machining to replicate the original appearance.
My original 73 unit had a six digit part number stamped into the machined area over the port. This was a small font compared to the date code stamp. Replicating that is another topic for sure. |
Has anyone figured out what that small stamping on the port opening flat is??I have seen more without it, but without a doubt have seen some with it.. seems it is hit or miss if yours got that stamping.. none of 3 I have here have it.. the ones I have seen ,from memory, started with a "cs" or something similar?? like a 2 letter then a string of numbers stamping ??
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