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-   -   1971 Norwood resurrection (https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757496)

TA455HO 07-15-2014 10:15 PM

1971 Norwood resurrection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO (Post 5234822)
Nice.. an original car that can maybe offer up some info....

Does your radiator still have the tag?
Can you tell what the tank codes are?
If your shroud is original too, which one is it, the 114 or the 086?

This is a 1971 Norwood car that I picked up about 19 years ago. Numbers matching on everything except the starter. I need some motivation to pick it back up and finish it. Some things got a bit off track and I could use some words of advice if you guys are willing. Let me know if you are tired of build threads and pictures.

No tag on the radiator, but could this have been part of it? I didn't notice this bit has some numbers stamped on it until I looked at this picture. Anyone know what they indicate, if anything? It is uneven along the right edge and looks like something broke off of it.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxcuxambe.jpg

One tank has CV, with a little E in between. I never knew where to look until recently. The letters sure don't initially stand out and I thought the radiator was probably not original so I paid little attention to it all this time.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuyymjo3a.jpg

Other tank is IF

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psy6beozsv.jpg

It is a 3 row core but I can't get a good picture through the hose connections but you can tell it is thinner than your average 4 core radiator. The overflow hose is not great but still has the 3 ribs running down the side of it.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjvtctarj.jpg

Radiator shroud is 086. Dirty/dusty but in decent condition.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnul0tqec.jpg

Hose retainer is still intact and tabs are all there.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pskf25fnx9.jpg

Has those mold marks on the top trailing edge that some have talked about.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgqlgqtkd.jpg

How do I freshen the shroud without messing with the marks? Anyone deal with that before?

Shaker drain hose was even still there. Some marks on the bottom portion, but all there and still very pliable.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps0mtrwrlq.jpg

72TAMAN 07-15-2014 10:34 PM

New thread please with lots of pictures.

TA455HO 07-16-2014 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72TAMAN (Post 5234999)
New thread please with lots of pictures.

Thanks Man! I see what I can do about pictures.

Might as well document some of this stuff up front.

VIN 228871N103459

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7af4sldv.jpg

Build date 09A - 201 trim - 11 paint

The build date will probably explain some things so I thought it would be good to mention up front.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1nfak8bs.jpg

Hidden VIN stamp

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgg3ljw4u.jpg

WC block with C048516 engine unit number

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...d/DSC00306.jpg

Partial VIN stamp on engine block

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqohlwc0f.jpg

Partial VIN stamp on good old M22 rockcrusher transmission. Also shows it is Muncie (P) destined for a 1971 Production Car (1) August (M) 25th (25) M22 (C)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgc8i7sed.jpg

The underneath side of the intake manifold has a date of 8-6-70 (August 6th, 1970).

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxktgywox.jpg

483674 intake. It has a plug in that one hole that I need to remove or have removed.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psyx62lkux.jpg

Nice crisp Winters logo

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pseeniq3ww.jpg

Here is the top side of the clutch and brake pedal support bracket assembly that attaches to the instrument panel support. 8 5 70 date (August 5th, 1970). I know some of these are obvious.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps3qawtbr3.jpg

I've had the 1971 assembly manual for a number of years now because Year One offered it fairly early on. What got me initially about the 3991763 part number is it did not agree with the assembly manual which says the Bracket Assembly is 3996355. But, up in the upper right hand corner is those pesky hand written notes and there it has the 3991763 part number. Looks like they changed to the new part number on 9/10/70 if I'm reading that correctly. Anyway, obviously they were using the older part number in the first part of August.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...sc9c2619c.jpeg

johnta1 07-16-2014 07:31 AM

Awesome stuff!

Do you know the date code on the block?

I think we had a thread on the radiator tanks code somewhere here on PY.
(I think HFR had some good info on them)

I'll see if I can find it if someone doesn't post first.

Very cool thread.

:)

'ol Pinion head 07-16-2014 08:20 AM

IF is the correct lh tank code for a 4 core. IA was the 3 core lh tank used. CV is the code for a rh man trans tank, either 3 core or 4 core. Your rh tank has the letter E embossed & that signifies the tank was made in May, usually the radiator is assembled same month or slightly afterwards. The shroud i would have to ck my originals. Bill posted a chart for 70 model shrouds last week.

I'm in need of a CV coded rh tank for one of my longtime projects if anyone reads this & has an extra. Cash buyer or possible trade for what you need.

The Boss 07-16-2014 08:38 AM

Any chance you have a whole picture of the topic car?

Subscribing.

TA455HO 07-16-2014 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head (Post 5235141)
IF is the correct lh tank code for a 4 core. IA was the 3 core lh tank used. CV is the code for a rh man trans tank, either 3 core or 4 core. Your rh tank has the letter E embossed & that signifies the tank was made in May, usually the radiator is assembled same month or slightly afterwards. The shroud i would have to ck my originals. Bill posted a chart for 70 model shrouds last week.

I'm in need of a CV coded rh tank for one of my longtime projects if anyone reads this & has an extra. Cash buyer or possible trade for what you need.

Oh. Ok. So that is IA. Thought it was an F but it is leaning a bit and now that I know it should be an A that's what it looks like more than an F.

Thanks Roger.

I was IM'ing with Telly last night and the conversation went like this -

Chad: CV is one rad tank. What this other tank? I see an "I" and something else.
Telly: F
Chad: Ah, I was upside down to it. Yep.

So, thought from that it must be an F from the conversation. But, at first I thought it was VI as I was reading it upside down. Flip the V over and you have the makings of an A.

TA455HO 07-16-2014 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Boss (Post 5235152)
Any chance you have a whole picture of the topic car?

Subscribing.

Before or now? When I first bought it in 1996 it looked like this. That is me with my hand on the car and my buddy Tim looking on. A little less hair now but mostly the same. I mean me, not the car...

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...hp?albumid=251

RamAir 07-16-2014 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TA455HO (Post 5235188)
Before or now? When I first bought it in 1996 it looked like this. That is me with my hand on the car and my buddy Tim looking on. A little less hair now but mostly the same. I mean me, not the car...

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...hp?albumid=251

Subscribed, very cool...link no worke

TA455HO 07-16-2014 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnta1 (Post 5235113)
Awesome stuff!

Do you know the date code on the block?

I think we had a thread on the radiator tanks code somewhere here on PY.
(I think HFR had some good info on them)

I'll see if I can find it if someone doesn't post first.

Very cool thread.

:)

Thanks John.

I had to go look at the block this morning to make sure I didn't misstate this. It is simply H31. Roger said this in a PM to me from some time ago. He said N104xxx build without knowing my VIN at the time, which is not 4xxx but 3459. Pretty got dang close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head
WC (048516 H31 lines up with what I have for a N104xxx build. I do not have a bunch of engine info on early (pre strike) WC builds out of Norwood.

Of interest, H31 is the only date cast, I've run across that skipped the 0 for year cast.

As far as dates cast,
H240, H260, H280, H300 (a Sunday! personally examined this block & wrote it down) H31, I010, I020, I040, I080 have all been documented as late August early Sept 483637 455 block casting dates. I100 also may have been used (trying to confirm with a better pic).


TA455HO 07-16-2014 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramair (Post 5235223)
Subscribed, very cool...link no worke

Can you try again? I didn't realize I had my album set to private... D'oh!

Thanks

72projectbird 07-16-2014 11:15 AM

The link works now. As rough as it looks in the pics, it looks like a great car!

2manyT/A'S 07-16-2014 01:53 PM

Well,Chad....it's about time you dusted that one off..............

Last month I started tinkering on a 72 that I bought back in 89........hadn't started it in years.......a bit of TLC and it lit right up....just like I shut it off a month ago......

Did you wanna have a RACE to see who gets done FIRST? :D

TA455HO 07-16-2014 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72projectbird (Post 5235253)
The link works now. As rough as it looks in the pics, it looks like a great car!

Thanks for checking that link. Stuff always works for yourself but you never know how it might break for someone else. Car body was pretty rough. Guy was going to make it into an Autocross car but he decided to go with a Corvette instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S (Post 5235347)
Well,Chad....it's about time you dusted that one off..............

Last month I started tinkering on a 72 that I bought back in 89........hadn't started it in years.......a bit of TLC and it lit right up....just like I shut it off a month ago......

Did you wanna have a RACE to see who gets done FIRST? :D

A favorite expression

'problem with engaging in useless activity is never knowing when your done'

And I can't even see the finish line from here...yet!

What's the plan for the '72? Full restoration or ??

72projectbird 07-16-2014 07:16 PM

Thank God the car never got turned into an AutoX car. Leave that to the Firebirds and Esprits :D

Pepi 07-16-2014 08:18 PM

I am not tired of build threads or pictures. Go for it!!

keith k 07-16-2014 09:12 PM

Looking forward to seeing some progress!

2manyT/A'S 07-16-2014 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TA455HO (Post 5235353)

What's the plan for the '72? Full restoration or ??

Well................long story short.......I actually started working on TWO 72's (at the same time......) recently

The one I just lit,was a driver that I took apart for body and paint before the turn of the century......was going to color change it...(11 to 26).... and stalled.....it's an auto...saddle interior...with one of those funny tape decks.....:D

The other one I bought in Jan 2000...in pieces....code 11...black standard interior, M22 and rear console.....

Didn't really have a direction on EITHER until a month ago.....

The automatic car will remain true to invoice/cowl tag......and the stick will be color changed to 26....(couldn't find a decent,affordable blue one to buy....so I'm gonna make one!)

Both cars will be built to "detailed driver" level......

I don't have the time or patience for building perfectly restored cars..(OR thinking that I do.......and am tired of ones that don't run or drive....:old:

Interesting sidenote.......Both of them were built in late Sept/71 and the VIN's are 12 #'s apart......likely were in sight of each other on the assembly line......now they sit on my assembly line....side by each....waiting to get put back together again....42 years later...

Sorry to "jack" your thread....but you DID ask......:focus:

NOW....can we talk about my truck? :D

TA455HO 07-17-2014 12:02 AM

Sounds like a lot of cars there. Don't know how you do it. Lol.

Continuing on....

Engine block cast date - H31 as mentioned previously.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscivxgfpi.jpg

Engine block part number - 483677

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psenf74y3j.jpg

One of my own personal favorite numbers

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgoag3gbg.jpg

Crossover is in nice shape. One ding in the top sheild. Dated either 6 30 70 or 8 30 70. Really hard to tell even with some china marker on there.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspv5gx7va.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdri1st4q.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psyjkusexa.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdhwql6uv.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psr48eyeld.jpg


Distributor already refresh by our very own 70RAIII. It's a 1112073 - 0 G 7 (July 7, 1970). A Tuesday?

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuzoljowf.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvnfl4mk2.jpg


Carburetor is 7041267 - XB - 2080 - 208th day of 1970 (July 27, 1970), which was apparently a Monday?

Still has the rubber gasket around the float bowl vent.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps6nhhzhvr.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pshwxpevrq.jpg

Alternator is going back together - 1100927 0 H 7 (August 7, 1970). A Friday unless Siri is lying to me.

If you look close at the trio-diode it has 3 lines of print on it. Not sure about first line, but 528 is partial part number and third line is date code - 0 G 31 (July 31, 1970). Also a Friday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxhiapxwn.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswubxcobb.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psyc9cjy1q.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszpcrlxsx.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscbwnc2jt.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuac8gs2e.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspgt28mrv.jpg

Coil is a 424 B-R - Ohms out good and no buldging in the bottom so hopefully it produces a spark still.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psl21twndd.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxfxzimrf.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnzspnig5.jpg

Judge273 07-17-2014 06:55 AM

Very cool pix.

Love that a early 71 is being documented.

Early block date H31 missing the year?

johnta1 07-17-2014 07:06 AM

no year date number

:)

Judge273 07-17-2014 07:22 AM

John are you answering my question? Makes most sense.

The Boss 07-17-2014 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnta1 (Post 5235778)
no year date number

:)


Why couldn't it be August 3?

Judge273 07-17-2014 07:38 AM

Chris, I believe that because of the early WC cast numbers makes it a 70. So Aug 31 1970 makes sense and vin helps that deduction.

TA455HO 07-17-2014 09:50 PM

You guys all OK with that so far? When in doubt I fall back to what Roger said.

So here's some more "project progress pictures". Say that ten times fast!!!

Water pump casting number 482138 with the large "71" cast into it. Slight nick in the spacer mounting surface.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psksvaaeaw.jpg

Dated G020 (July 2, 1970). A Thursday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscelpsp0o.jpg

I also came across an NOS in the box 9790522 part number 1.069 group number water pump. This is the 482138 casting number. Same pump using either number. I saved the gasket off in a folder so it wouldn't get smashed.

9790522 1.069 All V/8 .................. PUMP (w/gasket) 1 1971 1971 1-8

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psy5j194gb.jpg

Also has "71" cast into it. Also the 482138 casting number. Bolt holes are unused. Spacer mounting surface has no nicks.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psm29kvfnt.jpg

This one is dated G060 (July 6, 1970). A Monday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps2wj9d14w.jpg

LH exhaust manifold 478141 LH - Looks like an H240 (August 24, 1970). A Monday. .

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psiyo0mcax.jpg

Getting a good picture of the date code is elusive. Does it help to be further away? I almost think so.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pssxezca6e.jpg

RH exhaust manifold 9799721 RH - This one is dated G060 (July 6, 1970). A Monday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psymhcpxlv.jpg

Here's another item restored some time back by 70RAIII. The booster was covered in black paint before I sent it to him. He said it was a nice one with no pitting. Slight ding in the lid and I'm not sure that lid is original or not.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps6lo8rmed.jpg

Has the "EB" on the forward snout.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxuhn6moa.jpg

Drilled and tapped bosses, "PM" stamping on the proportioning vale bracket. He does nice work, no question.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspwhe8sqn.jpg

195 on the back side of the 12 o'clock tab.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslu9sot9r.jpg

236 on the front side of the same tab. This is 236th day of 1970 (August 24th, 1970). Another Monday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psep2icdhh.jpg

5470409 casting number, 1 1/8 for the diameter, the D9 and down at the far end is another 236. I assume this is the same date as on the tab above.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psaezrvvuh.jpg

That's it for tonight. Gotta go mow the lawn.

70RAlll 07-17-2014 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TA455HO (Post 5236304)
You guys all OK with that so far? When in doubt I fall back to what Roger said.

So here's some more "project progress pictures". Say that ten times fast!!!

Water pump casting number 482138 with the large "71" cast into it. Slight nick in the spacer mounting surface.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psksvaaeaw.jpg

Dated G020 (July 2, 1970). A Thursday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscelpsp0o.jpg

I also came across an NOS in the box 9790522 part number 1.069 group number water pump. This is the 482138 casting number. Same pump using either number. I saved the gasket off in a folder so it wouldn't get smashed.

9790522 1.069 All V/8 .................. PUMP (w/gasket) 1 1971 1971 1-8

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psy5j194gb.jpg

Also has "71" cast into it. Also the 482138 casting number. Bolt holes are unused. Spacer mounting surface has no nicks.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psm29kvfnt.jpg

This one is dated G060 (July 6, 1970). A Monday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps2wj9d14w.jpg

LH exhaust manifold 478141 LH - Looks like an H240 (August 24, 1970). A Monday. .

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psiyo0mcax.jpg

Getting a good picture of the date code is elusive. Does it help to be further away? I almost think so.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pssxezca6e.jpg

RH exhaust manifold 9799721 RH - This one is dated G060 (July 6, 1970). A Monday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psymhcpxlv.jpg

Here's another item restored some time back by 70RAIII. The booster was covered in black paint before I sent it to him. He said it was a nice one with no pitting. Slight ding in the lid and I'm not sure that lid is original or not.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps6lo8rmed.jpg

Has the "EB" on the forward snout.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxuhn6moa.jpg

Drilled and tapped bosses, "PM" stamping on the proportioning vale bracket. He does nice work, no question.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspwhe8sqn.jpg

195 on the back side of the 12 o'clock tab.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslu9sot9r.jpg

236 on the front side of the same tab. This is 236th day of 1970 (August 24th, 1970). Another Monday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psep2icdhh.jpg

5470409 casting number, 1 1/8 for the diameter, the D9 and down at the far end is another 236. I assume this is the same date as on the tab above.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psaezrvvuh.jpg

That's it for tonight. Gotta go mow the lawn.

Your booster "195" number is actually a "1957" number.1971's have the 1957 stamping,FWIW 1970's have a 0426 stamping. No idea how that was decoded..And yes, I remember your booster. seems most painted black were done so to cover rust/pitting.Yours was actually protected by the paint. rare to find the front 1/2 of these boosters pitt free.. nice to see the car is comming back together..that plating will last easily another 20 years..

skunkwerks 07-18-2014 04:15 PM

Looking good
 
Looks good. Nice progress. I am starting one of my 71 455 HO cars and it is good to see a documented car with original parts. Love the M22 Code tranny. I have one too.

Keep posting and we will keep givin you support.

Will be a nice car when you get it finished.

TA455HO 07-18-2014 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skunkwerks (Post 5236785)
Looks good. Nice progress. I am starting one of my 71 455 HO cars and it is good to see a documented car with original parts. Love the M22 Code tranny. I have one too.

Keep posting and we will keep givin you support.

Will be a nice car when you get it finished.

Thank you. I love the M22 trannies. Stay tuned for some questions coming up. Any advice and opinions are welcome.

TA455HO 07-18-2014 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70RAlll (Post 5236373)
Your booster "195" number is actually a "1957" number.1971's have the 1957 stamping,FWIW 1970's have a 0426 stamping. No idea how that was decoded..And yes, I remember your booster. seems most painted black were done so to cover rust/pitting.Yours was actually protected by the paint. rare to find the front 1/2 of these boosters pitt free.. nice to see the car is comming back together..that plating will last easily another 20 years..


Thanks for that extra info added there and for all your help with the distributor and power brakes. I'm hoping you'll do me another one or two along the way. If you read this can I hit you with a quick PM or e-mail about one need?

TA455HO 07-18-2014 11:47 PM

OK, here's what's going on with front suspension portion of the project. A long time ago I got these NOS upper control arms. Ball joints are riveted in. They come painted all black and at the time I was not aware of the dipping they did at the factory that left the tip unpainted. So I could try to replicate that some. It mocks up fairly well so far.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psv5cd33oc.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmqj2nplo.jpg


OR I could go a slightly different route here.

This is, at least, one of those "choices". So I could probably go either way.

I've got the original upper control arms. They both have the old ball joints removed and are glass beaded. Still need a bit of clean up but not too bad.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqouimrtq.jpg

One is dated coded 0 G 30 (July 30, 1970). A Thursday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvdpd3ruz.jpg

Other is dated coded 0 H 18 (August 18th, 1970). A Tuesday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslfdfth1y.jpg

I do have a pair of the 3986009 upper ball joints.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psp8f7thou.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslcoyuamb.jpg

And also a pair of the 6259679 upper control arm shaft kits.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscb7nigbg.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psd6nmeabm.jpg

I wouldn't be able to go without riveting in the new ball joints. Bolts just wouldn't seem right. I just found out recently that Scott Tiemann can rivet ball joints in.

Should I use the original control arms or the NOS ones? I guess some of that depends on whether or not Scott would be willing to help me out.

====================

Now here's a similar situation I need to get taken care of with the lower control arms.

I don't have any NOS lowers to fall back on, so there's that, too.

I do have the original lowers all apart and blasted.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psneohedez.jpg

They both have a large "A" on them but I don't know what that would indicate.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjrk7y6gr.jpg

One is dated 0 G 29 (July 29th, 1970). A Wednesday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psekifjlua.jpg

One is dated 0 H 4 (August 4th, 1970). A Tuesday.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrecqsejy.jpg

The front and rear bushings are NOS with Harris Silentblock on them but I don't have boxes. They do seem like they will press in nice and tight. And the bolts that pass through them fit perfect. No real concerns there other than a hint of flash rust on one of them that I need to clean off.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psih8e2rog.jpg

I also have a pair of 9756251 lower ball joints

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7xr1gozz.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pskvqu03cj.jpg

But, they are too loose by exactly ten thousands of an inch. I know the lower ball joints were replaced at some time and the honed out the opening for aftermarket ball joints. In fact I still have those ball joints and they fit nice and tight.

Is there anything that could positively be done to the opening on the lower control arm that the ball joint passes through to close it down ten thousands? There is plenty of load bearing material to support the ball joint and they wouldn't pull through, no way. They would just be slightly loose in the hole and I can't do that.

I'd appreciate any advice or thoughts on those two items.

Thanks
Chad

70RAlll 07-19-2014 12:34 AM

Corvette Specialities or something like that in Sheboyghan Falls Wisc. will rivet upper ball joints for $45 each side. did great work on the 2 sets I sent them.The lower ball joint is always a problem once you remove the originals. I am only guessing here, but think the removal of the originals opens up the holes just enough that when you try to install NOS lower ball joints,they are always loose. I have tac welded in the inside,know one guy who tac welded on the ball joints mating surface then ground down to gain that difference.. your problem is a common problem is what I am trying to say. your solution will involve a welder one way or another.. good luck.. and call the Corvette place, they did a 2 day turn around and didn't scratch my freshly painted arms.. great job for the cost..

Norwood 07-19-2014 01:34 PM

AHHHH...Bill, I can do the rivets.;)

70RAlll 07-19-2014 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norwood (Post 5237306)
AHHHH...Bill, I can do the rivets.;)

Craig.. I know I asked you about this.. Are we talking about the same rivets??the upper ball joint mount rivets? 1/4" or so shaft with 3/8" or so heads?? guess my age is starting to show.. I can't imagine why I wouldn't have asked you about doing these.. anyway, there you go.. send it to Craig.. I know I will next time I need these done..

Norwood 07-19-2014 04:21 PM

Bill, have you seen different fonts used in the stamping of the eb? Is the pictured the correct in your opinion?

70RAlll 07-19-2014 07:39 PM

Yes. I have seen a smaller,almost like a currently stamped font,and the large stamped font as shown here.I will say the one shown here I have never seen from a Pontiac except a Firebird.The smaller font I have seen from Firebird's and GTO's. Guess what I am saying, every time I received a smaller font master cylinder to restore,it came off a GTO except twice off Firebird's. I bet I received 40++ of the large font master cylinders all from Firebirds.I don't know if I am correct or not, but I believe,at least 70-71 models,that the large EB is the correct for Firebird's and the small EB is for GTO's. GTO's used the exact same mater cylinder in 70-71 model years as Firebird's did. I had a guy with a GTO swap me his smaller font because he thought it was a restamp. I explained to him what I had experienced and that his smaller font was correct for his GTO,but he was dead set he needed the large EB. Funny thing, 6 months later he called asking if I still had the small EB.The "experts" at a show told him the small was correct not the large.. funny..Craig.. why are you asking??

TA455HO 07-19-2014 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norwood (Post 5237306)
AHHHH...Bill, I can do the rivets.;)

Ya Craig, I was wondering since it seems like you rivet many other items. Would you be willing to do mine? They are a fairly stout rivet as I'm sure you know. These are about the best I could find if any were needed.

http://amkproducts.com/bulk3.asp?part=B%2D10775

Not sure what you'd think of those.

Can I send you a PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70RAlll
Craig.. I know I asked you about this.. Are we talking about the same rivets??the upper ball joint mount rivets? 1/4" or so shaft with 3/8" or so heads?? guess my age is starting to show.. I can't imagine why I wouldn't have asked you about doing these.. anyway, there you go.. send it to Craig.. I know I will next time I need these done..

Thanks again for all the information that you share. Don't be surprised if you get a PM.

TA455HO 07-19-2014 09:18 PM

Oh, I meant to say that I got this brochure from Hanson Rivet in California. They have a machine that would probably do the trick there on the left, or one that looks basically like it. Don't really need one for the limited use. I'd have to start doing lots of other peoples to ever pay it off.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps9ufuhf4p.jpg


My aunt called me the other day in desperate need of a new computer since she is still on XP and IE 8 and her bank started blocking her. Today I set up a network between the new and old computers and did the whole configure and transfered all her files and favorites. Set up new shortcuts on the Start screen. I hadn't touched Windows 8.1 until today. Took quite a long time and so we went to lunch there near where she lives.


Boeing has always had a huge presence in Washington state and especially in the city of Renton near this place we were on Lake Washington. It was one of their original locations from way back. They still build the 737 there and I remember my Dad in commercial construction had a job doing a rework on some office space, which is right inside the plant on sort of a upstairs balcony overlooking the plant floor. He got to bring us kids in for a tour one day and here we were up on this balcony about 4 or 5 stories up overlooking all these planes being built with several HUGE gantry cranes overhead.

Anyway, that building is in the background in at least one of these pictures.

When they finish with a 737 at the plant they bring them across a bridge and use the Renton Municipal Airport for the first flight. That same airport is used by lots of small planes, too. Including float planes. But, there is no dock for the float planes to even tie up next to. And the water is shallow on that end of the lake with lots of trees sitting on sandbars. So they have this fleet of pickup trucks with trailers that they use many times a day to bring the float planes in and to launch them on this "boat" ramp. That no boats ever use.

These are some of the trucks they use. Supposedly the only airport in the country that uses trucks like this. This is not photoshopped, I promise.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps4b7bgvbn.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psceptsufn.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjas0lcmr.jpg

A different angle. This one has little wheelie rollers under the back end. The older Chevy has tailpipes out the back.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psprobjm7d.jpg

Another chevy over there in the distance.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psb9thzrt8.jpg

And a silver Ford.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspwdvirgv.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswdn9oe8h.jpg

Just thought you might enjoy some of those pictures. :cool:

:focus:

Ya, OK. Back to topic....

Thermostat housing 478144 ready for paint. Some pitting under the radiator hose area. Otherwise, not bad.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7y9mw8em.jpg

And some fresh, what should be NOS, 1969-1970 RAIV and 1971-1972 455HO intake manifold crossover washers. I should have bought dozens of these at the time. I know I paid less than $3.50 each, probably around $2.00. Nice square shoulders. I dunno, you tell me.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnbtuxify.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pshe4gntb4.jpg

Norwood 07-19-2014 09:42 PM

Pm me for my info if you want me to do the rivets. I have presses up to 100 tons.

Norwood 07-19-2014 09:43 PM

Bill I ask about the font because I currently have two eb's and they have the small font. And who better to ask then you��

70RAlll 07-19-2014 11:09 PM

CRaig.. I say the small EB is more than likely from a GTO.. As I said in earlier post, a couple 2 or 3 that I have seen from Firebirds had the small EB, but am not sure these were originals to those cars.May have just been found by FB owners and sent to me for resto.. I think the "community" accepts both as correct, they are metered the same so either will work ..if available, I would suggest the large font on our 70-71 FB's.. can't confirm if 72's used EB's, think they did.. not positive though.. others more familiar with 72 model years can speak to this.

Transamric 07-20-2014 01:50 AM

I'm loving every bit oif this thread! Learned something already. I didn't know Harris made the control arm bushings. I thought I'd seen Saginaw on those.

How about the master cylinder color, guys? I thought we were leaning towards a light shot of black spray vs. a natural metal look. Is this one of tbose could have been done either way deals?

70RAlll 07-20-2014 02:45 AM

'ric.. I agree that semi gloss lacquer black is correct. I did this work for Chad,I bet every bit of 4-5 years ago. It wasn't until a couple years back that I finally "saw the light" on the masters having black paint originally.So that grey color is my bad,not Chads.. Chad you should hit it with a single coat of black. It still has the plastic port covers I sent,just turn it upside down, and spray it.Wouldn't worry about using a rattle can on this part, get semi lacquer from NAPA or similar place..

Brewster 07-20-2014 07:54 AM

From what I have seen the 72 f bodys did sport the small EB at least thats where mine came from. :hooray:
Also after you paint that master black send it to a machine shop (or Craig ;))and have those machined areas cleaned up on a mill for the original look. That front stamped area will have to cleaned up with stripper and protected before that repaint though.
Love the selection of parts and options. Restoring a car now a days to an original level is hard, time consuming and expensive route. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing with us all!
Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70RAlll (Post 5237609)
CRaig.. I say the small EB is more than likely from a GTO.. As I said in earlier post, a couple 2 or 3 that I have seen from Firebirds had the small EB, but am not sure these were originals to those cars.May have just been found by FB owners and sent to me for resto.. I think the "community" accepts both as correct, they are metered the same so either will work ..if available, I would suggest the large font on our 70-71 FB's.. can't confirm if 72's used EB's, think they did.. not positive though.. others more familiar with 72 model years can speak to this.


1971WARBIRD 07-20-2014 01:30 PM

linking in. good info for when I get to mine.

Transamric 07-20-2014 04:08 PM

How about GM's supplier(s) for control arm bushings? Could there have been multiple suppliers of these for "F" bodies as there was for "A" bodies?

TA455HO 07-20-2014 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transamric (Post 5238010)
How about GM's supplier(s) for control arm bushings? Could there have been multiple suppliers of these for "F" bodies as there was for "A" bodies?

Yes, I've seen Harris Silentbloc and General Tire myself so could have easily been several I'd guess.

TA455HO 07-20-2014 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norwood (Post 5237570)
Pm me for my info if you want me to do the rivets. I have presses up to 100 tons.

Wow, 100 tons!!. Best I have in my garage is 30 tons. And while I have a great bearing splitter that's about it for accessories so far. I'll PM you later.

Thanks all for your help and encouragement. Here's some more intake related stuff.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps0m3aclkt.jpg

Here's the stove pipe elbow part number 481991 for the right side of the engine. Should be original. They are a bit thicker metal than the reproductions that I've held.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps21y8f7z0.jpg

Here's one you might call BS on me about, but this car when I got it, had a thin lip shaker scoop. I know there was some carryover from 1970 and it says some of that in the assembly manual but I couldn't find the section I was looking for yet. It seems to be in nice shape. No cracks. Getting close to ready for paint, but now I was reading how Mr. Norwood redoes those, too. Well, take a look.

Part number molded into the underside 481689

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psudpg9s1r.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxp1zbslw.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1bi68tga.jpg

The flapper door works very smoothly.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psd8gemedm.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslq2xn9yg.jpg

Do you think some repair work done here? Seems like a lot of sealer.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psq6n3jfor.jpg

A hole on the trailing edge that I believe is for the ground strap that runs to the firewall.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswmuuknfs.jpg

The old seal is still in decent shape. It's got a bit of overspray on the backside but is still very pliable. I could probably bend it into a figure 8 if I wanted to.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pshownpmrx.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswvcosx3l.jpg

Part number molded into it. 481697

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdb2gjl0z.jpg

Yes, pliable enough for a figure 8...

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psfugz2ahi.jpg

Air cleaner top lid has been blasted and painted. Too shiny? This is part of 6486669

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps8v3o5tva.jpg

Underneath side

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psuswjwwoi.jpg

One of 2Manys favorite parts. The 481991 pipe. I primed this after blasting to keep it from flash rusting. What was the thought on the finish for these tubes?

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspztbonww.jpg

This is visually the same duct as 479482 and 483652 but is the replacement 9797496 part. It should fil the void.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrugai0ix.jpg

Here's a 479212 elbow with the flat at the bend for clearance.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrenxoiez.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psepijwn80.jpg

And an original with tower clamp. I'll try to get a close up of that later but it is a 2 5/8" Wittek with a 4/70 date on it. That's about the oldest thing I've seen on it yet.
Not positive that is original.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psaczm6evl.jpg

The old heat riser shroud. I've had some of these parts replated by a local cad shop (twice now) but they always start to turn a light green over time. Maybe I need a new cad plater.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvesmkkls.jpg

And the shroud from passengers stove.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdgi5r2vg.jpg

The 3959115 Switch Assembly for the shaker flapper activation.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszadfnduq.jpg

And the 9788460 Clip (same as 9796744) to hold the switch to the bracket.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1qs6ff3w.jpg

More soon.....

70RAlll 07-20-2014 07:51 PM

When you paint the master, just take some blue painters tape, place over the flats where the ports are, and then paint it. Many think GM machined those flats after painting, even heard hotshot professional restorers say this. My take is they didn't do machining after painting. I think the master cylinder was machined,ports assembled then to protect the ports from getting paint they put tape over the flats,which is why we all see originals with that flats unpainted.

Use Aero Propellar in Blooomfield Colorado for your cadmium plating. Ask for Chris.. His work is what is on your brake booster, really does great work. I have silver parts he did 4-5 years ago and they still look perfect..

Brewster 07-20-2014 10:41 PM

Bill might be correct regarding the flat machined areas however this unit has already been painted thus machining or stripping is the only options. Mine was bead blasted and left a rough finish thus the need for machining to replicate the original appearance.
My original 73 unit had a six digit part number stamped into the machined area over the port. This was a small font compared to the date code stamp. Replicating that is another topic for sure.

70RAlll 07-21-2014 12:02 AM

Has anyone figured out what that small stamping on the port opening flat is??I have seen more without it, but without a doubt have seen some with it.. seems it is hit or miss if yours got that stamping.. none of 3 I have here have it.. the ones I have seen ,from memory, started with a "cs" or something similar?? like a 2 letter then a string of numbers stamping ??


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