horn stuck - 69 GTO
 

Hey guys. Looking for a little help.....
I am wiring the interior on my goat. 69, column shift, non-tilt. Hooked up the horn, put on steering wheel, plugged wires in relay and horn constantly blows.
Things I have tried (or worth noting):
New relay, new contact kit, new cancel cam, new harness.
Here's the strange thing. At first attempt of the install, I couldn't get the horn to work at all. I did all the troubleshooting with jumpers and finally decided that it had to be in the steering column. As I am pressing the lock plate to take off the clip, the horn starts blowing!! I disconnected the relay, took the lockplate off and looked for something obvious with the turn signal switch. Nothing... so - I put everything back together and now the horn won't stop blowing. (I did notice that the copper pin in the TS switch seemed a little wobbly but not enough for me to blame it just yet)
What am I missing?? Something simple I am sure. Is there a ground I am overlooking? Is there anything in the turn signal switch that I should check for? Keep in mind that I do not have everything else wired up on the dash - (just in case something else makes electrical love to my horn button) :focus:
My next step is a new switch but would rather not go that way if I don't have to...
One last thing - all of my wiring diagrams show 5 wires going to the relay. My car has 4. The mystery wire is an orange wire that connects to the relay along with the black wire with a red stripe. This may be for a different option?? Not sure.

By the way - I'm new to the site. I have read your threads for years and have gotten some great advice!! Glad to say I am a part of it now..
Thanks!

I don't think you have a turn signal switch problem. It is fixed in place and as long as the horn doesn't blow with the lock ring off I don't see a problem with the switch. Are you sure you have the upper parts of the column assembled correctly? It should be the switch, then cancelling cam, then spring, lock ring and snap ring. The cam should pass through the oval hole in the lock ring with the snap ring sitting down in the recess of the lock ring. Are you using a compressor to install the snap ring?

I knew it was something simple!!
I have switch, spring then cam. It sounds like I have the cam and spring transposed.
I will reverse asap and let you know. Thank you very much!!!

Wish I had a Diagram. I see from a 70 GTO that the wire from the relay to the steering wheel is Dark Green. If its the same, then the Dark Green is the ground for the relay. Disconnect the connector at the base of the column and find the Dark Green Wire at Car side, now the horn should be OFF, if it is, that's good. Now take a jumper wire and touch the Dark Green wire to GROUND, Horn should blow. If it does, then that proves the wiring from that point forward to the horn relay is good. If you then connect the connector and the horn blows, that proves that the Dark Green wire is shorted to ground between that connector and the contact on the steering wheel. Now take the horn cap off and take the contact out where it rubs on the ring. Connect connector at base of column, Horn blows still? That Dark Green wire is shorted in the column somewhere. Horn does not blow? connect the contact if it blows now the horn button is shorted or making contact even though you are not pressing on it. Now you should know where to look. I hope a 70 is the same? If its not the color of the wire from the relay to the column is the only thing that should be different. Hope this helps.

Thanks ted. I will go through your troubleshooting steps as soon as I get a chance. And yes, the wire is green. Thanks for the response. I will be sure to keep you posted.

Goatracer... My wife won't let me blow the horn this late at night so I started looking at my resto guide. It shows switch, spring, cam, lock plate? Are you sure you have yours switch, cam, spring?

One more question for you guys before I go through all the troubleshooting.....
My wiring diagram shows an orange wire connected to the relay along with a black wire with red tracer. Where does this orange wire come from? fuse block? under the dash? I don't remember having a "spare" orange wire hanging around. Could be my whole problem!
Can anyone check theirs for me? Maybe show a pic?
Thanks.....

From what I can tell (1970 Diagram), ORANGE wire is 12V at all times and is from a Fusible Link from the Large positive wire at the Starter. Of course it has to come through the Bulkhead Connector, So make sure its HOT 12V (if it wasnt, your horn would never blow). it shows a Black/Pink wire from the relay to the Key Buzzer switch. (buzzer is in the Horn Relay). So if you ground the Black/Pink wire the buzzer should sound. If you ground the Dark Green wire, the horn should blow (thats all with the relay plugged in, DO NOT GROUND the ORANGE WIRE, if you let the smoke out, you will need to replace the Fusible Link.

Ok. I found the orange wire. It comes off the fuse block under the dash.
Next question..... What is the "correct" way it is routed to the relay? Through the grommet that holds the hideaway air lines?

Update:
I got the orange wire through the firewall and hooked everything up to the relay.
Horn constantly blows.......
Now that I know I have all the wires hooked up as I should, any suggestions on next steps?

Another update....
Ted- I followed your troubleshooting tips and have determined that the green wire is shorted in the column. Any idea where it would be shorted or how? I would assume in the turn signal switch? Any pointers on how to fix the short?

This may be the best way. Take a test light and hook it to positive battery. disconnect the relay and put the test light into the terminal with the Dark Green wire. if it lights up, then the wire is Shorted. Now get the steering wheel horn cap off and take out the contact from the button to the ring. Light goes out? Horn contact is shorted or making contact when it shouldnt. Light still on? take off steering wheel and take ring off, keep taking things off until the light goes out, by now you should be close and keep it up until you get the light to flicker and you will make a connection of what you are doing to make that happen, There's your Sign.

I unhooked everything from the relay, hooked test light to positive battery, put probe into terminal with green wire. No light. Good news I guess but now what?

Ok. I'm an idiot. Forgot to plug in harness at base of column.
Now the light comes on!!
It flickers and eventually goes out when I pull the lock plate away from the copper pin in the turn signal switch. I can touch the lock plate to the outside of column and copper pin and it comes back on. Does this mean my turn signal switch is bad? Possible exposed or broken wire?
By the way Ted.... You have been a huge help so far!!

I cant picture in my head what you are looking at, but you are there! Between that green wire and the copper pin is your problem. Now you know more than you ever though you would about horn wiring.

So true!!
I pulled the turn signal switch out. No apparent problem I can see. Gonna order a new one and cross my fingers that the old one was worn out.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again!

Get a jumper wire and a battery and ground the turn signal switch with a jumper wire and the test light on the green wire and see what you can do to make it light up. That green wire is getting to ground somehow. I just hate for you to get a switch when it may be easy to fix. Good Luck, Ted

Got the new turn sign switch in. Installed it, hooked everything up and no change.
Horn still blows, test light still lights up in green wire from relay. The test light goes out as I pull lock plate away from copper pin. Same as with the old switch. Absolutely no change whatsoever.
What am I missing here????

horn blower
 

Could you take a picture of the way you are putting it together, something doesn't sound right.

Hey gold.
At what point of install would you like to see a picture?

A picture of the turn signal switch, then a picture of the way your installing the turn signal cancelling cam. I was reading back, I believe the spring goes under the cam.

I will post the pic shortly. The spring does go under the cam. I've had it that way the whole time. After the post suggesting the spring was on top, I checked the resto guide to ensure I had it right.

Attachment 372177


Not sure why the first one was sideways.....

So is the horn going off as it sits in the picture, with no other pieces installed?

No. When everything is hooked up the horn blows.

When you install the lock plate-cancelling cam the horn blows? Could you post a picture of it installed?

Yes. I will post a pic tomorrow. I did the test light as suggested. It stays on until I pull the lock plate off of the copper pin on the turn signal switch.
Can I ask what you are looking for with the pic?
Thanks for the help.

Does it blow with the lock plate off and you pushing down on the white horn slip-ring piece?

I'm guessing you mean the cancel cam?
No. When the lock plate is off and I push on the cancel cam it does not blow.
I did just notice that the brass strip on the back of the cancel cam has tabs that come to the front. The lock plate is touching those brass tabs. I would bet that is causing the constant ground I am getting thus causing the horn to blow.
Is there supposed to be something between the cam and the lock plate?
I just looked at a cam in the Ames catalog and it looks like it has a rubber gasket on the top of it.

I am trying to remember if I every saw where there was a thin plastic piece between the lock plate and cancel cam. But it sounds like that is the problem. Do you have a parts breakdown of the steering column?

I do but it shows nothing between the cam and plate. I wonder if the plastic gasket - or whatever it is - is part of the cam......?
I'm going to make something to put between the two and try it this evening.

Horn works!!!
Apparently the lock cam was touching the brass tabs on the front of the cancel cam causing a ground.... Whodathunk??
I took a door panel water shield that I'm not using, cut a piece out to fit between the two and viola!!
Thanks a million for all of you guys help. Although I feel kinda dumb, I learned a ton from all the advice. Most importantly...check the simple stuff first!!
Oh well. Horn works and I never have to worry about a new relay or turn signal switch.
Thanks again to everyone!!!

I don't think there's supposed to be anything between them. Just a thought -- I wonder if the lock plate is on upside down. If that's possible, would that do it?

Edit: jadams, did you have to use a lockplate depressor tool to take the lockplate off? If you didn't need to, something is wrong (like maybe the plate is on upside down).

It's not. I checked that. Bevel is pointing up towards the steering wheel.
Strange, I know. Possibly a flaw in the cancel cam? Who knows....

Gotcha. Interesting...

Glad you figured it out.

And yes.....I had to use the depressor.

Some good useless knowledge for somewhere down the road I guess......

Thanks