Stroker 400 turbo build.
 

Just got my 400 back from Butler.pro gram splayed caps,bop dual lip rear seal,eagle 4340 4.25 crank,scat 6.8 .990 2.20 H beam rods,ross 4.15 pistons coated on tops and skirts,tnt total seal rings,comp hyd roller 238/234 .541 114,port matched 4150 victor to my butler ported 7k3 heads that have been freshened up. msd dist,coil,wires and digital 6 box.still need push rods,cometic head gaskets,head studs,build my own exhaust and all my turbo parts.turbo will be borge warner s475 or 80.need suggestions on wastegate,bov,hat,boost controller,a/r gauge and anything I'm missing.will be a self modified blow thru carb set up.no intercooler at this time but will be incorporated at a later date.I'm in the process of file fitting my rings at this time.


This is the original 50k mile engine out of my 72 catalina that I've run on the street and bracket raced for 20 years and is going back in.had the stock 400 with a little cam and headers.3500 stall and 9in. with 4.56 gears.running 8.0 at 83 mph.time to step up and it's a big step for me.I'm very excited and hope I can make the pontiac God's happy.questions, comments and suggestions welcomed.

More engine parts pics
 

More engine parts pics

Built my own oil pan
 

Built my own oil pan and made it dimensionally like a 8 quart moroso.going to buy the pick up tube and screen from moroso and should work great.

Cool deal. You will get many suggestions, I run a S475 tial MVR gate, turbosmart racegate BOV , had Kevin from CSU built me a blow thru.
The turbo car will not like all that gear you have, while you are working on your oil pan, do not forget an oil return from the turbo. 10 an return is recommended with no up bends.
Keep the photos coming, good luck, it is a blast!

Do you have that much ground clearance for the pan?

Block looks good, like the piston coatings.

:)

Looks like a lot of nice parts, cool to see another turbo Pontiac!
How much power are you planning, pictures of the car and plans for the chassis?

Looking good so far. I wish I took more photos as mine was going together. Going in the Catalina?, agree on needing a gear change. You'll be closer to 6.0 soon and very driveable.

Noticed the stock dip stick tube. I'd like to see how you make that work with the splayed caps. I don't think the inner tube will fit and a stock wind age tray won't either. Looks good though, I'm doing a 433 but with a 671.
Keep the pics coming!
Rob...

Got a 3.89 gear that I've run for years and still in perfect shape.may have to go to a 3.70 or 3.50.can the turbo return line run into the front cover at the fuel pump hole or should I go into the front of the pan.thinking that it should exit above the oil in the pan.I did lower this car a little by cutting a coil and a 1/4 out of the front but I think the pan will be ok.it rode nose high and I had to get it down.no dropped spindles for this car that I know of.I was a ford senior master tech at the time and aligned it myself.didn't know about the dipstick concern I'm going to have.I'll look at and see what's going on.Butler tells me 800hp with 12 to 15lbs boost.I'd be happy with that.I'll be conservative and will take some time to sneak up on that number.there's going to be a learning curve.bought this car from a old man for $800.he got it from his sister who was the original owner.it's always been in my home town.the old man painted it with a brush and house paint.it still has the house paint on it.couldn't find a gear and I put a 9in ford in it out of a 75 merc.moser axles,detroit locker and Daytona support.had a driveshaft made with thicker tube.made my own driveshaft loop.poly bushings,boxed lower control arms.I've got the instant center at about where my knees are at sitting in the car.pinion angle 2 degrees down.no cage or roll bar.interior is completely stock.made my own trans crossmember.removed front swaybar.made front suspension limiter. 400 trans was built by me with tci kit kolene steels and I think Kevlar bands,govenor is tricked out too.would love to do a 4l80e.More pics tomorrow

As long as the oil return lines are down with no up turns or curves. My turbo is mounted on the passenger side so I went to the front right of the pan.
I used a 8an line to my oil pan for a dip stick. while you are building you pan you can weld a bung in for it. My canton pan had a bung so I used it. Now my dipstick can not blow out because the an fitting holds it in.

Car pics last season
 

This is it.I was loading it up to go to the track.my number has always been P400

Thanks JSPONT I'll consider all of that

No problem, I have been thru my learning curve already!!!
Here is my dipstick set up, I did make it shorter than the photo. I copied this idea from another person on another site.

Attachment 425641

awesome sleeper I like it !

I wanted to use fuel pump hole for return also, but like JSPONT my turbo is on passenger side and couldn't get it there without having part of the line level so I too went to the right front of the pan. People had me a little paranoid about the return part of the setup so I went way overkill with -16 line, but it works lol.

Basically you have gravity feed now back to the fuel pump, Lol!

Always keep a couple of good fuel tank vents on the car when you do that, because every
cup of fuel returned to the tank will have air trapped in the fuel.

The EFI guys say, if you push the fuel forward thru a 3/8" line, then send it back to the tank with a 3/8" fuel line because the engine will always consume some of the fuel and you basically just have a loop circuit up to the fuel pump regulator and back to the tank with the engine robbing some of the fuel during the fuel loop.

Tom V.

I plan to use the fuel pump hole as a vent for the bottom end on my Firebird, I drilled and tapped the other side of the front cover for a 1/2"npt and will have a -12 oil return.
With 800 HP the body will likely want to roll from all the power, I would think you would want that front bar back in and likely a rear bar too.

Thanks for this post, I forgot the inner dipstick tube on my engine, thankfully the engine is still on the engine stand and if I wreck the pan gasket taking the pan off I have another gasket set.

More pics
 

Short block about done.still working on pushrod length and i've got some idea's on the headers

More pics
 

Sorry bout the upside down pics.didn't know how to get em right side up.

Looks good! Nice engine porn.

Cool project. Looks to be a fun sleeper.

Have a soft spot for that body style... 1st 455 I ever drove was my Grandmothers new 71 Bonnie!

Victor intake question
 

Fitting my intake and looked at how ports matched to intake without fel pro gasket and doesn't look optimal at all to me.intake was suppose to have been port matched to my heads but looks off.with the gaskets on its worse.Looks like the whole intake needs to drop maybe .060 or maybe more.can a new victor be cut to get where I need to be?

Pics problem
 

Somebody's got to tell me how to get these pics right side up.not smart enough to figure it out.spent a hour trying different things but give up.

Here you go.

With D-port heads, I would think the head ports need work to match the intake port?
(the Victor has big port openings?)

With the intake gasket (does it match head ports?) on and the intake bolted down, take intake off and see what the impressions look like on the gasket?

If the bottom of intake port also needs to go lower, you can mill the intake, but it would basically just fit your heads then?

Have the heads been milled previously?
Possibly the intake side of head wasn't also milled if so?

:confused:

Yes , block has been squared up and so have the heads.with gaskets the intake is even higher.

Looks like you will need to trim the intake where the valve covers sit too. If you run aluminum covers you have to. The Victor is made for a wide variety of heads so it has a ton of material on it. It's like a trim and cut to fit.
The Northwind(KRE) will need less work and is a little shorter.
If you need .060 you split that to each side, and take the gasket into consideration.

No problem cutting the intake that much. I had to do the same with mine. Measure the gaskets thickness. Sounds like you need that much and a little more.

Nash/Warrior intakes were pretty thin (in comparison to the typical Victor New Intake), and they still sealed up fine.

The Victor intake, as was said, has a lot of material to play with to get close to where you want to be height wise on the port.

Get the height right, then work on the sides a bit to match stuff up.

It does not hurt if the head port is slightly larger vs the intake port but hard to have with a stock Victor intake port stock (with the design of the Victor intake being based off RA-IV port applications).

Tom V.

What do you think about epoxy on the top of the intake runners and clean up the bottom of the runner to get the ports lined up.I don't have a machinist in my area that I trust to mill my intake.what brand epoxy and where do I get it?what kind of prep for epoxy.or should I just Send this intake off and get it milled.what is estimated cost for that procedure?

In my opinion I would mill the intake before using epoxy. You would have to go pretty far into the ports to straighten them out and I'd be afraid of it coming loose. Splash zone is a good epoxy that people use for this kind of stuff. I've used it before. It's good stuff, but it was $75 for the two parts years ago. BES in Sunman Indiana milled my intake for $120.
If it helps we milled .120" from my Victor to get it to sit right. My block has been milled too.

I think you need to mill it ...

Its alive
 

Ended up getting intake milled then cut the crossover off.crossover was so low that the valley pan was interfering even after clearanced as far as I could go.I had to clearance for the intake also,drilled and tapped factory crossover to 1/2 npt and -10 line to the back of the heads.Finally got this engine together and ran it today on engine stand with full exhaust and cooling system. Found out my turbo cam that was suppose to be a 4/7 swap wasn't.says right on the cam card.after start up noticed with temp gun that 4 and 7 wasn't right.swapped back to normal firing order and all good.

Headers
 

Just about got my headers done.cut up some sbc stainless turbo headers with pontiac flanges and made these.not perfect by a long shot.1 5/8 tubes,2 1/2 outlet.

Nice! getting closer. I call the one header I made that goes around the steering box Frankenstein!! It aint pretty but works perfect!

Headers
 

Thinking I need to cut flange for expansion.what do y'all think? Also do I need flex couplings or bellows on both hot pipes to the turbo?I'm looking at the Vibrant brand couplings and or bellows.want to header wrap all of the hot side and need a recommendation on that as well.

I did not use flex couplings, nor did I wrap the crossover, only the down pipe. The stainless I used was thick and so far no issues with any cracks. I used a bunch of stuff from Vibrant. It is all good. To be on the safe side you could weld in the flex couplings. Some say it helps. I also matters what and how you mout the engine. solid mounts and the engine does not move, rubber mounts and the engine will dance up and down so the coupling could be needed. I did the poly mounts but have the engine chained to the frame, It does not move.

Awsome project. Subscribed.

Stainless tube DOES expand and also gets longer with heat.
Stainless parts do not need heat wrap to keep in the heat.
When you trap heat in stainless pipe it just grows even more in dimensions.
Non-stainless pipe will destroy itself from the inside with thermal wrap.
If you are trying to keep away from parts like Brake Master Cylinder, etc
use 1/2" clearance heat deflecter shields to keep the parts cool.
Massive amounts of air pass thru the engine compartment when the vehicle is at
any speed over 30 mph. It will carry away the heat unless the part is wrapped.

Food for thought.

Tom V.

DONT cut the header flange! Instead slightly elongate(fore/aft) bolt holes for center 2 bolts...next 2 bolt holes outboard from there elongate a bit more and finally the 2 outboard bolt holes elongate a bit more than the previous 2.
Direction of elongation should be away from tubes!
This will allow for expansion and help keep headers sealed

V-band joints..pipe exit side should protrude 3/16" and entrance side of joining pipe should be recessed 5/16". This isnt just for a pilot! It allows for expansion without stressing the clamp excessively AND the protruding piece will expand inside the receiving flange more than than the flange around it and greatly improve seal...
(if pipes actually butted up against each other expansion will lead to cracked flanges or broken welds. If butted flush at flange, expansion will stretch v-band and likely leak)


Toms suggestions on heat wrap... consider it a warning of sorts. Sheilds are a better alternative!

IF heat wrap on your primary hot side actually helps boost response your pipes are likely way too big!
Yours arent too big!

Turbine sheilds are easy to make... from a stainless tea pot or other similar shape.... Walmart and/or dollar stores or even Goodwill stores for cheap shiny stainless pots or other items that could be used to make other sheilding.

Bruce, we typically used one "Master Hole" at the center of the head exhaust ports, (in the case of the Pontiac one of the two center exhaust port bolt holes). This fastener had minimal clearance around it. Then as you posted, the expansion slots in the flange for the other fasteners were slotted with more room outward of the fastener. We used a .060" growth dimension for each step. Center fastener slight clearance around fastener, next two fastener positions (bolt diameter + .060" sideways outward), then next two fasteners (bolt diameter + .120" sideways outward), all allowing for flange growth. DO NOT SPLIT THE FLANGES, SLOT THE FLANGES , (as Bruce posted).

The flanges were always a minimum of 3/8" material and in some cases up to 1/2" thick
flange material. The fasteners were always stainless. The carbon fasteners failed easily on the dyno under our 6 hours at WOT type duty cycle testing. This is high load/rpm ocean offshore boat type test conditions.

Stainess fasteners cost more but would live a long time in a dry land vehicle type environment.

Tom V.

I'm not understanding this new format on this site.seems a whole lot harder to get around on here.got more parts and getting close on finishing the mock up

More pics

More pics

Nice progress, looks good!

Go down to the bottom of the page and you can change back to the old format. There is a drop down on the very bottom left side.

Great pictures, and build, It will help me when I go from a procharger to a single turbo. I was going to buy a Chevy weld up header kit, and modify much like you did..looks great, thanks for posting!

That carb looks awesome, looks like the piping is fitting in nicely.

Very Nice Work on the Package, especially with the header type parts vs the cast iron manifolds. 70bird has run a single turbo in that basic location for years with excellent results.

Got some pics of your frame turbo mount design?

Tom V.

what size primary's are your headers made with?