Maybe it's best that Pontiac is Out of Business
 

Buick survives and Pontiac is gone. Buick continues to build and sell cars for the over 80 set with styling only a mother or grandmother could love. But in July 2016, Buick will provide a new vehicle for American consumers to purchase that will make history. The Buick Envision will go on sale in the US. It's a 5 passenger SUV. What is so special and wonderful about this Buick first? It will be the FIRST "American" vehicle, built in China for export to the US market!! With THAT kind of forward thinking from GM, my anger toward Pontiac being gone lessons a little. It was bad enough to endure the Pontiac LeMans! (the Daewoo Korean one).

Maybe Trump will get them back.
Sad deal.😬

You gotta be kidding!? Another communist vehicle like the yugo!! Buicks to me are old man's car.guess I'm dated.Dealers gotta sell them! Ugh.I can imagine getting parts.

sdob: youve gots to a honda lover! Buick had some real power houses, GSX, GS, Wildcat, c.i. 425, 400, 455.

I know.no Honda lover. GMC trucks,Pontiac cars. Those Stage IIs were something.I grew up going into local Pontiac,Buick dealer.See playground was across the alley. We used their water fountain a lot.Got to see all the Buicks. I did like the styling.Still Pontiacs for me..

Buick was stodgey all along. GSX.... dual quad Riviera's..... GNX.... these all were exceptions to the image Buick had since I remember giant porthole fenders. Elektra's...... big weird angular cars in the 60's..... 4 door Buicks were family man law to many.... but they had great ones mixed in the sedan array.... and now they have evolved into the geriatric choice of zillions..... a 25mph Buick in a 35mph zone with way slumped down short people with gray hair and fuzzy animals in the back window is a norm anymore.... waiting on the Buick Regal Limited Depends Edition :)

Arnie Palmer was getting his cars at dealer I mentioned. I think Buick had some kind of deal.Anyway I remember a brand new fire red Riviera with dual quads! It was his wife's new car. I was friends with the guys there. We bought there.

Still Mike's favorite T shirt:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...ailbyost-2.jpg

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Buick Regal Catheter & Urine Bag Limited Edition. Not that I need one! Just think how reliable the Chinese could make this model?? :) bt

NOT your "over 80 set" car ,( 2016 Buick Cascada) , .. and ANY GM truck has parts from all over the world, CHINA included..
I am NOT a fan of the 5 Buick plants in China, but hey, Even if the corp tax rate is lowered, the US has no industrial capacity to do many manufacturing needed. Then there the EPA letting plants get built, and the union labor stuff...
Oddly enough the Pontiac Solstice manufacturing in Europe is making that car with LS engines in it now ...
2009 Pontiac G3 was an import , and the Pontiac G2 is sent to and also made in Mexico, some have been imported to US privately.
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-...vertible-1.jpg
The G2.... 51 hp, inline 3 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...0&d=1461348802

GMS mark of excellence! Wonder what the business sense was behind this venture? $$$$.I'm too glad Pontiac wasn't involved.A friend was having glass block made in China. The first containers were fine afterwards quality declined.he was or is involved in the courts over this .OVER there.

Wasn't Buick supposed to be going out of business way back when? Or just rumored to? :confused13:

I try to follow this stuff pretty carefully and I don't recall Buick EVER mentioned as a division to cancel or go out of business. It seems Chevrolet and Buick are untouchable, as long as Obama and his cronies are willing to give GM handouts anyway. Cadillac was rumored to be on the chopping block back in the early 90's right before the "Northstar" conference which really changed their direction and launched a new engine platform. Similarly, the Corvette was possibly going to be dropped after the C4 series, but Chevrolet got much more serious about building a truly great sports car and the model was saved. Pontiac had a few murmurs of being axed prior to it actually happening, but the strong sales of Grans Ams, Grand Prix and Bonnevilles probably kept them alive longer than some thought. Then GM discontinued all their strong sellers and gave them the Aztek. That pretty much finished things up for them. Buick just continues to plod along, boring cars, with styling that at best is generic, at worst a Hyundai copy. I understand the Chinese love them, they can have them.

I think you have your info wrong.

The Aztek had a brief run (2000 - 2005), but was discontinued at the same time as the Bonneville and the Grand Am. The Grand Prix was still being produced through 2008.

The G3, G5, G6, G8, Solstice, Torrent and Vibe were the vehicles in production at the end in 2009 - and Pontiac was still a pretty vibrant brand with models that were desirable.

Pontiac, in 2006 (without the Aztek, Bonneville and Grand Am) sold 410,000 vehicles compared to Buick's 240,000 in the United States.

In 2008, in the midst of all the turmoil in the auto industry, Pontiac (without the Aztek, Bonneville and Grand Am) sold 267,000 vehicles compared to Buick's 137,000.

Buick biggest seller for Buick was the Enclave in 2008 - a vehicle that already had the GMC and Chevy clones. Buick had nothing the American public wanted. Nearly 45,000 of the total 137,000 Buicks in 2008 were Enclaves.

Our thanks to the current administration for the forced elimination of the Pontiac brand.

The G6 was sold as a 2010 model, as was the G3.

GM and Pontiac

Who was in office when Olds went away?
Who was in office when Firebirds went away?

Don't blame current admin. for GM's (Lutz) problems.

I think Lutz used prez as a convenient escape goat.

Lutz was already planning to get rid of Pontiac (and the others) but didn't have the balls to straighten GM out.
Had to have someone else do his job.

:confused:

I had a chance to see some internal GM documents about future products about 10-11 years ago and there wasn't anything for Pontiac beyond 2011 or 2012 (can't recall exactly)- certainly no new product. It appears as though a G8-based GTO was being considered for 2010 but that was about the only thing of significance to enthusiasts.

With America's history of building cars, and that we do still build things (boats, planes, big stuff with lotsa metal) I believe it is totally bottom line oriented what is happening with offshore manufacturing and not some restrictive atmosphere explanation. It is important to America's future we discuss and find ways to change this trend. Pretty bad when our part of the labor for the automotive food chain is primarily the car salespeople. Asking people to not buy foreign is about impossible though anymore.

Actually, this is not true, and it hasn't been true for several years.

[QUOTE=Formulabruce;5566100]NOT your "over 80 set" car ,( 2016 Buick Cascada) , .. and ANY GM truck has parts from all over the world, CHINA included..
I am NOT a fan of the 5 Buick plants in China, but hey, Even if the corp tax rate is lowered, the US has no industrial capacity to do many manufacturing needed. Then there the EPA letting plants get built, and the union labor stuff...
Oddly enough the Pontiac Solstice manufacturing in Europe is making that car with LS engines in it now ...
2009 Pontiac G3 was an import , and the Pontiac G2 is sent to and also made in Mexico, some have been imported to US privately.
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-...vertible-1.jpg

I saw this car at one of my accounts last week. Its really good looking. I would think the focus with this model is to attract the younger hip crowd.

Barry's staff didn't understand cars and thought GM had too many divisions. Plus Pontiac was 'performance' and performance isn't green.

The G6 was introduced in 2004 as a 2005 model. My wife had a 2005 G6 as her company car while working in Lethbridge, Alberta.

The G3 was introduced as a 2009 model - the only year it was produced.

Work at a buick dealership for oh say 3 years, see what comes through the door as far as customers. Retired people make up the bulk, as well as doctors and lawyers that want a staid looking car and maybe aren't really wanting to spend a pile of money on it (read cheap).

Buick is never ever going to be an excitement car line, they may have had a couple performance cars in the past, but they aren't going to be putting the bulk of their clientele in them. The Opel line brought more young people to Buick than probably anything else they've had, and that was decades ago.

Since most people look at their cars the same as a washer and dryer (appliances) and read Consumer Reports as a guideline of what to buy in automobiles buihog will keep selling cars at a much reduced number than Pontiac did.

Any dyed in wool Pontiac guy, especially after GM dropping Pontiac, isn't going to switch to buying buicks because Pontiac is no longer an option. GM conceivably lost any true Pontiac guy/girl forever by the closing of the Pontiac division.

Buy owning the Indianhead Acres T Shirt business, plus wearing my own shirts daily, I've talked to scores of former Pontiac customers/owners that won't ever buy another GM car, and I'm one of them. My wearing the T shirts many, many times start conversations about PMD and GM dropping of the division. Just talked to the security guy at Best Buy last night about the subject after he noticed my shirt.

GM thought of Pontiac people as GM people, WRONG. Surprisingly many Pontiac people are also ford people, look at Tom Vaught..............;) I also sponsored 2 brothers by building their engines for a Pontiac dirt car that were ford lovers as well as Pontiac lovers

If I, "really would rather have a buick", I would have bought one years ago. I've never wanted a buick anything that they've offered at anytime during my lifetime, never will.

My wife would like a Jeep, and that's probably going to be our next new/newer car. Not a real fan of the shysler corp either, but I damn sure won't buy another GM anything. :rolleyes:

I continue to buy GMC trucks because I'm loyal to the local dealer who used to sell Pontiacs (and still hosts a mostly-Pontiac car show every year). I have no loyalty to Government Motors as a company.

Eric

The Sirrotica post #23 sums up my feelings and experience almost 100%. I worked at a Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealership and have worked with hundreds of GM dealerships as a trainer for decades. When Pontiac went out of business, EVERY SINGLE dealer was crying the blues of lost sales they will NEVER recover. They are all smart enough to realize that the PONTIAC customers were the ones who were loyal, even when the product was not the best. Most Buick owners bought 1 or 2 cars, generally the last cars they would drive before giving up their license and being driven by loved ones. Yes the Chinese love Buicks. That's great. Yes Buick built a handful of really nice looking and performing muscle cars. But if you think about the GS 350, 400, 455, GSX, they were a response to Pontiac OWNING the GM performance market with the GTO and LeMans. They had to do something. What about the RIVERA? Again Pontiac created and owned the market with the Grand Prix. Buick had to respond. I don't hate Buicks, I would just never own one or new ANY GM vehicle as long
as I am able to drive. GM will get along just fine without me, selling Chinese built Buick SUV's to the American Masses. I agree with Sirrotica again on this point, for 95% of the new car buyers out there, a car is just another annoying appliance that you have to "waste" your money on to get around. Why do you think Toyota, Nissan, and Honda sell so many cars, appliances? And since refrigerators, washing machines, and dishwashers are made in China, most Americans probably won't care that their next Buick will be built there too.

As to Buick - I agree 100%.

GM didn't lose all the dyed in the wool Pontiac guys. I think they retained the majority of them.

I'm a dyed in the wool Pontiac guy - and won't switch to Ford/Toyota/Chrysler/Honda or insert name of another car manufacturer here...

My dad sold for an Olds/Cadillac dealer and two different Buick/Pontiac?GMC dealerships over his automobile sales career that stretched from the late 40's to the mid 90's.

I have a pair of Chevy's, a Pontiac and a Caddy for my toy cars. My daily drivers are a Pontiac and a Chevy. My company car is a Chevy. My future purchases will come from Chevy, GMC or Cadillac.

LS EVERTHING now equals "Pontiac" eh?

Who cares...if you wanna play buy a Chebby titled GM today with Pontiac cladding and call it "Good Day Sir!" Really a Pontiac???

Nope! Nada! No way Jose!

http://www.2016releasedateprice.com/...04.01.47-1.jpg

PS: throw in some Lambo doors too, cause "that's Pontiac?" Not even. :gag:

Don't think that GM's target customer for the 2016 Buick Encore is that concerned where the car is manufactured. Some may be, but Americans have been purchasing cars built in various Asian countries for years now (unfortunately :usflag:).

On the other hand, if GM decided to move their truck line assembly to China, I would think most potential US truck buyers would say good bye to GM.

YES!!! Agree. Still gotta buy made overseas then. I like GMC I have 2015 2500 SLE very satisfied,overall.I enjoy towing with my truck,comfortable.pricey.

These are NOT for the "over 80" crowd guys...
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-...vertible-1.jpg

While many cars are an appliance, many of ours were too, back in the day..

No phucks to give really as image above looks same as current VW (and others) offerings and prolly using same drop-top mechanisms ;)

[QUOTE=android 211;5567507]Barry's staff didn't understand cars and thought GM had too many divisions.

But GM did have too many divisions. That was one of the things that brought GM down - a business model that was irrelevant for the times.

.....yet here we are in 2016, with 4-door sedans that can go 0-60 in under 4 seconds. :rain:

[QUOTE=Diego;5570378]Alfred Sloan spent considerable time, money and energy creating all those different divisions, and the pinheads at GM made them all the same in the 80's. A generation of people (like me) grew up seeing all GM products as "the same."

Sloan's time and effort is irrelevant. And to suggest all those brands were made the same is not quite honest.

It's been said before: GM was GM's worst enemy. I can't blame the company for trying to maintain its organizational structure, especially with peripheral complications like dealerships, but GM tried to carry the load for way too long (among other things).

I'll just add this and leave:

The current trend to make modern Pontiacs from Camaros etc. and LS everything is really disheartening.

But I've got to check myself and seriously ask: Is this the same that loyal Studebaker, AMC, Olds, Packard, Plymouth, Hummer owners felt?

So...for me...take a Fiero and trying to make it a Ferrari or Lambo is equal to taking a Camaro and trying to make a GTO or Trans Am...she may be cute and expensive, but...:rolleyes: :drum:

:2cents:

Really?
 

Pretty disheartened here:http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=676268

And here:http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=769673

Dick move!
 

And WTF is that B-Man? You're all in for the LS bolt ins - good for you congrats! I'm not really...

Need I say more?

Edit: on second thought...you know what? You win. WGAF about any Pontiac really, right? Clone, copy and paste as if Pontiac never existed...winning?????

Just saying you looked pretty happy with the goings on in those threads.

:D

Dick move?

How about you injecting your dislike of the LS trend into every thread possible, regardless of the subject matter.

Troll move.

You needn't say more.

Interesting your direct hit on me...calling me a troll...as a Mod...

I call 'em as I see 'em.

As a Mod I would know.

Calling me a dick?

Not smart.

Quit while you're ahead.

Or not.

Got your bullet handy Barney?

http://youtu.be/x_wLVCLPx0

Got it.

Pretty much agree, but I am done with buying "new" anything, and that includes Ford, Chrysler/Fiat, and all the foreign makes. And GM did betray Pontiac (and Olds) loyal customers for years in "steps". First the different divisions engines thrown in there, then the look alike/drive alike cars of the '80s/'90s, then the eventual discontinuation of the divisions. I will just continue to enjoy and use my old Pontiacs and Oldsmobile into the "Golden years". I work on all makes of cars during the week, sure don't want to drive one when I am not there. And I will add that no Chevrolet has ever really "done it" for me either. Just look at the interior for instance of a '65 Grand Prix vs a '65 Impala, or a GTO vs a Chevelle.

Goatwgn makes a good point about the Pontiac interiors. It's interesting that as much as I love the traditional Pontiac V-8 and all the decades of work I have put into making them faster, it's the styling and interiors of the 60's Pontiacs that initially hooked me almost 50 years ago. The quality of the interior VS a Chevy of the era was like comparing a Yugo to a Rolls Royce. 50 years later, some Pontiac interiors are original and still in great shape. Virtually every Chevy interior is shredded beyond recognition in the wrecking yards. The difference is startling when you walk the yards. Exterior styling is subjective of course, but even hard core Chevy guys love the look of the dual scoop Pontiacs with the hood tach. Many of my die hard Mopar friends admit those Pontiac front ends were some of the best looking designs ever to come from GM.

Buick won't be the only one sent from China to North America to sell. The rest of GM is headed the same way.

Hopefully Trump will be elected and stop our jobs from leaving the US and going overseas. If you would notice, every business that has already left the US is send products back to us that cost more than when we made them here in our own country. IE.... Levis jeans. Check the price on a pair of their foreign made jeans and see what they cost now.

A capitalist making companies produce in America?

That ain't capitalism .... And please use the other forum for politics.