Engine coatings continued.......
 

So a few years back we had a spirited debate about engine coatings. Seems a couple of folks were encouraging others to go out and spend $800-1000 coating engine parts with the promise that if they did they would stand to gain 50+ hp just by doing so....:

A fella entered the thread and proclaimed that he hoped they were right because they had just done it. He privately pm'd me and said he would be in touch with results.

I'd love to hear more in this thread how that all worked out. ;)

:popcorn:

Well we know where this going. :D

Had several components coated with different types of coating(s) in a build prior to the discussion mentioned being originated.
Recent freshen revealed that the coating in the combustion chambers and piston tops was flaking off. Seemed more concentrated closer to the exhaust valve. Coating seemed to adhere to valve(s) well. Backside of exhaust were a PITA to clean.
Most bearings looked good #1 rod coating was "wiped" clean full circumference of both shells in line with the oil hole. No scoring, the Coating material was sort of balled or rolled up. #2 main upper shell had the same condition starting. Didn't hurt the crank fortunately.
Piston skirts showed normal type of indications of wear, slight scratches in bores.
Coating in exhaust ports did seem to help get the heat out of the head, barely burns paint off the exterior of the head. Satisfied with that.

Questioned the company that applied the coating(s), no help, sacrificial in some cases? Application process?

Can't comment on any real power gains, but in comparison to others with similar type builds, any gain would be negligible at best.

Hmmmmm.

So not 50 hp.



INTERESTING


And the balling or rolling up on the bearings is the same we found. That's why we stopped running coated bearings. Ditto on pistons skirts and tops.

Coated with what? Moly? teflon?

Coating(s) Calico#'s:

Bearings and oil pump gears - CT1 dry film
Windage Tray - CT5 PTFE
Piston skirts - CT3 dry film
Piston top - CT2 ceramic
Chambers, exhaust ports and Valves - CT21 ceramic
Wrist Pins and Oil Pump plate - DLC

A lit of money for hardly any return.

No, this is a LOT of money for no return!

:rolleyes:

There's a proprietary polishing process for reducing surface friction while keeping super-precise dimensions. It's not a coating.

As for the combustion chamber & slug face...that's the Coating Topic i had assumed was in question for proclaimed HP benefits

There's a proprietary polishing process for reducing surface friction while keeping super-precise dimensions. It's not a coating.

As for the combustion chamber & slug face...that's the Coating Topic i had assumed was in question for proclaimed HP benefits

LOL ^^^^^

I have some cool coating on my intake valves and anticipate quite the power increase.

The only coatings I've saw work are carbon skirt coatings. They wear fit to the bore to deal with bore distortion without scuffing. The work well and keep engine noise down. Other than that?

Theres a couple verions. Omnicron is the one we have used. Looks cool as.....

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/...psjwinmze9.jpg

Yup, that's pretty. Looks like chrome.

Eagle has a similar finishing process they claim increases power. It looks promising but I have not tested the process. Anyone have any non supplier data?

My girlfriend uses some sort of coating on her hair. One of the 12 or so bottles of stuff in the shower. Can't say it helps with HP or wear, but it does smell good :D

^^^^^this TTTMF's

One way to tell if the various coatings and products make a measurable HP difference is when specific sanctioning bodies and rules committees ban or outlaw the coating product or process. If no one pays any attention, in my experience, the HP gains are anecdotal or negligible.

Motor oil is a coating, try running your engine without any and see if it makes a difference.

What do you expect.

I expected a stupid answer from GREATGTO but damn the motor oil thing was the stupidest thing ever.

Motor Oil is a Lubricant, Motor Oil is a Coolant, Motor Oil is a Hydraulic Fluid, but Motor Oil as a coating, while true (it does keep parts from rusting), is way down on the list of what it is used for in an engine. I will give you a D-Minus for that answer, not an F but darn close to it.

Tom V.

Thermal barrier coatings for combustion chambers: probably see a HP benefit with aluminum heads. Ping?

Friction reduction coatings; probably see a HP benefit in the rear gearset & transmission, maybe in the engine. Seems to mee that the high-loading surfaces are better-off with a polish and Redline lubrication.

Agree, the anti-friction coatings must do something, because almost all the OE's use them on piston skirts. They do it for mileage and emissions. Coating allows tighter piston to wall clearance which means fewer hydrocarbon emissions. Anti-friction results in less heat and more HP. The real question which nobody can put a number on, including the coating manufacturers and sellers, is how much HP gain. Is it 2 HP on a 1000 HP engine?, 8 HP? They never want to put a real number on it. Certainly isn't anywhere near 50 HP or as I said, sanctioning bodies would be all over it. We run "hard anodized" pistons in our car. That could be considered a coating, I guess. We do it to provide a greater margin of error in our tuning. The soft aluminum piston is shielded from melting a fraction of a second longer with the coating than without. Think of it as the difference between a regular fuse and a "slow blow" fuse. So in a sense it makes more HP by remaining a piston longer than a glob of melted aluminum. Coatings have their place in an engine, but there are many more cost effective places to spend $$$ first.

You definitely can get coatings poor if you do everything.

Seeing sludge on windage trays and in oil pans even with regular oil changes I usually get mine teflon coated. Piston skirts since even Sealed Power coats them and piston tops. Usually bearings partly because mine sit for a couple of months before they get started and figure cold start it could help. It helps PolyDyn is local and I can drop stuff off and not have shipping costs. They do headers also now.

But the new 455 for the 81 got no coatings but the pan.

With a micro polish and a coating coating like microblue on the ring gear and bearings it's possible to run thinner dif fluid. Possible help there.

Problem is pro stock re-Coats often I'm told. By a very reliable source.

Mike, hmmmm, if your ring-pinion is still swimming in 80-90W then please look into draining it ut, wiping everything clean, solvent spritz, then reload with the Redline stuff. Definite reduced temperatures.
....and reduced parasitic HP losses.

What do you guys think of Swain's coatings for piston skirts to reduce piston to wall clearance?

Works great for that application.

https://www.line2linecoatings.com

Check them out.

I'm running Dewco lube. If I didn't know better I would think it was 10 W 30. Super light weight

I saw a commercial once where you could run slick 50 and drain the oil out of your motor with no damage....

The skirt coatings are there too reduce the effective piston to wall clearance while dealing with more bore distortion. It reduces noise without scuffing. That is it.

If you think about it, the friction in the power cylinder boils down to rings rubbing in the bore and the skirt to wall clearance shearing oil. Tightening the clearance up reduces oil film thickness increasing friction.

Check the Red Line stuff; likely thinner, likely slipperier, likely never get dark colored after many runs.

Custom Lubes and Coatings have a place, putting them in the right places is sometimes a learning process.

Tom V.

So I shouldn't be running 80w 90?

Yes....otherwise you'd be too fast because you have E-heads. ;)

Ha. and not in your TH400 either.

Hy guard is close to that lmao

A gentleman I work with that has a few big motorcycle wins under his belt in a couple classes running Harley's has tried coating about everything at some point. The only thing he coats now is piston pins. He didn't comment that he found any power, just longevity in that part of the engine build after coating that specific component.

... 1000% on the money ... :usflag:

... c'mon Mike, you gotta step up to the 0/10 ultra thin weight stuff, and see what really low oil pressure looks like ... :eek:

He's talking about rear gear oil. Not motor oil. And 0/10 is chicken chit. 0 /2 and 0/5 is trying! But not for me.lol

... I know, I saw his pretty blue stuff laying on top of the heads, at Norwalk , I was just trying to make him laugh ... Lol

Next year a few of the OE's will introduce oil that has 0W/-7 viscosity. Also 0W/-5. That's some thin oil! All about fuel mileage with the OE's. That's a negative viscosity number I am trying to show.

Mix 0-5 and 0-20

Running the bearings again they look perfect

So my 10-w30 is thick, lol