1968 Ram Air 2 F.A.S.T. Firebird Breaks into the 9's !
 

First Pontiac ever in the 9's. Congrats to Rick Mahoney and Scott Tiemann for a whale of an effort over the years to get to this point!

Jody

Congrats to Rick and Scott!

That's an awesome time, especially on those tires they run?

:)

That's a great accomplishment and timely, too. There is a nice article about the car in the brand new Pontiac Perfection Magazine. Just got mine yesterday.

Great job guys! Impressive!

Very impressive .

Got a link to the Pontiac Perfection magazine so I could get a subscription, Mike?

Tom V.

Sorry Tom, It's the Poncho Perfection magazine, the new Don Keefe Project. I posted the wrong name. It's available digital or print. I am old school and like to have a paper magazine as long as they are still printing them. www.ponchoperfection.com

Congrats to Rick and Scott!
Back at the Spring Musclepalooza race, Rick told me he was pretty confident that it would turn a 9 at the MIR race. I guess he was right! :D

Congratulations Rick and Scott! :thumbup:

Dang, that's impressive. Nice job

Nice!
But why do those RAIIs run so well. They are just iron D port intake port with round port exhaust.
They seem to run as well or better than RAIVs.

Congrats!! That is incredible!!


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RAII is round port just like RAIV


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Combustion chamber differs from RA III & STD.

Sooo, can someone post the combo?

Its 511 CI with 15-1 CR,solid roller 264-264 and 720 lift.Makes 700 HP at 6500.Tom

4.5 arm?

The point Dragncar was trying to make is the fact that the RAII intake port is not a raised port like on the RAIV head. It's essentially the same standard-size intake port you'll find on the common high-compression big-valve D-port 400 heads, such as the 1968 #16 head.

Most all of us are aware they're a round-port exhaust head, but again quite unique and unlike every other round-port head because of the standard-size intake port.

Huge congrats to Rick and Scott, simply an amazing accomplishment! :thumbup:

Amazing for sure...gettin that thing to hook up seems quite the accomplishment...Congrats guys!

Ah, OK. Thanks!!

Bart,I would say those II heads are WAY bigger than a IV head now.Tom

No doubt! :cool:

But the pure-stock RAII is quite a performer in its class as well, as we know from the performance of Jim Mino and Truman Fields.

Congrats Rick & Scott - Pontiac power :)

Great accomplishment guys, well done!

When you get involved with Pure Stock and FAST it makes sense to pick the vehicle with the most advantages.

The 1968 RAII Firebird is one of those.

It is light, has good heads, intake, and excellent exhaust manifolds. This automatically puts you WAY ahead of something like a 1979 Firebird, which came with "D" port heads, much heavier, and crappy log exhaust manifolds.

It's more about the laws of physics here than anything else. Power vs weight, the most power in the lightest chassis will always run the best numbers......Cliff

I think what is surprising to most is why we aren't seeing this being done in a '69 bird with a Ram Air IV setup. Did the '69 pick up that much more weight? Or was it just easier to source '68 parts?

744HP & 667 TQ!!!

Congratulations to Rick & Scott - they have scienced the **** out of this car, the drive-line, the rule book and their approach to racing. This car has been evolving since before it was built and they have a lot to be proud of.

The fact they compete against and beat 1000+hp Hemi's and aluminum big block Chevy's is just the icing on the cake! :D

I think if the same people involved chose to build a 69 Firebird, they would have similar results with a Ram Air IV. There may be some subtle differences but the rules allow enough modificatins to work around them. These cars have the stock appearance but are essentially Super Stock cars with lousy tires and a more stock appearing suspension. They make Super Stock power and every inch of the car under the acid dipped skin is full on race car. I just love watching these type cars but would like to see a better, safer tire rule. I assume everyone realizes these F.A.S.T. cars are a deep pocket operation and that is likely why a 69 Ram Air IV is not out there at least this year. I know some of my Super Stock friends have large investments in their engine programs. To be competitive in NHRA making similar power, a 50K engine is more the norm than the exception. Making nearly double showroom power and looking stock takes lots of smart decisions, tremendous effort and the necessary funds. These guys make us proud.

They have been campaigning that car/engine for several years now and it is great that they have "raised the bar" for Pontiac engines and cast iron parts to the heights that they have.

Truly an accomplishment!

Tom V.

RA IV vs RA II
 

My understanding is there are several reasons why the RA II are prefered over the RA IV. The RA IV cars had a inlet "screen" sitting over the carb on the factory ram air setup. The screen is restrictive and results in poorer air flow through the carb compared to the 68' RA II ram air cleaner factory system. Understand, these cars MUST run the correct factory install air inlet systems.
Secondly, the 69' Firebird is heavier than a 68'. It's all about power to weight ratio

Correct, 69's and considerably heavier than 68's with the same options, but a FAST Class project could quickly make them closer in weight with some effort.

If you look at the cars in FAST that run the best numbers, they are always relatively light vehicles with very good engines in them. This includes big block Corvette's, Hemi cars, Torino/Mustangs with 429SCJ or 428 engine options, etc.

Here is a link to some of the cars showing the racer profiles:

http://www.fastraces.org/members/fas...nu-items/ghp28

I recall comparing ship weights from my 68's phs documents to Debs 69. Both convertibles... dont have my 68 docs anymore to show numbers(went with car 12 yrs ago). Debs car was only slightly heavier.

But... Mine had the t400 - hers the t350, mine had power top - hers is manual, mine had power brakes - hers doesnt, mine had remote mirror- hers doesnt, both had power steering but hers came with a cooler on the variable ratio pwr steering. If mine had been optioned like hers it probably would have been 75-85 lbs lighter.

The 67-68's might also have slightly less frontal area but at this level I dont think you could see a difference at the track.

The 69 seems to have slightly more rear overhang which would seem an advantage but the 69's front has alot more pieces to it so likely negates any rear advantage.

Pat "Air" Wendling ran a RAIV '69 back years ago when his 11 second runs put him in the top ranks of FAST. That car was featured in HPP and they detailed all of the "tricks" he had done at the time. That car was low budget compared to this '68.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/pon-0...upgrades-mods/

For those that haven't seen it before- this is what a 9 second Pontiac motor looks like. Note the 3/8" fuel line and cast long branch manifolds.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...2&d=1268871406

That's just crazy. I've seen this car and his pure stock car. The attention to detail on both the cars is incredible. Big thumbs up to all the people involved with this project.

Amazing...
 

but not surprising...congrats, guys!!! I too have seen both cars in action and they were both incredible...even then!

Someone ought to sell these log manifolds with the exact mods that ran 9.90's. I'd buy a set.

What ever happened to these early Firebird race guys? Roy and Mike McKinney

They were fast like like Rick and Scott in their day. Rick and Scott's stuff is very impressive
considering the rules.

Tom V.

A shot of the Tiemann/Mahoney 'Bird from last weekend.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b8&oe=5888DFEF

If I showed you guys a picture of my Formula right now you'd laugh your asses off. The trans fluid is now seeping way beyond the underbody of the car.

F.A.S.T. '68 Ram Air II Firebird
 

CONGRATULATIONS to Rick Mahoney & Scott Tiemann for their amazing 9.99 ET at 136.80 MPH pass with their F.A.S.T. (Factory Appearing Stock Tire) 1968 Pontiac Ram Air II Firebird at Maryland International Raceway this past weekend!!!

This was with cast iron RA II heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, a tiny Q-jet 4BBL carb and a full closed exhaust system with a crossflow muffler! Not to mention...no traction bars and running on skinny 7-inch wide G70-14 reproduction rear tires!!!

Imagine...a 9 sec Et at 137 MPH with NO aftermarket aluminum heads, aluminum intake, big Holly carb, tuned exhaust headers with open exhaust, fancy 4-link traction bars and huge 12 inch wide slicks...to put this amazing feat into perspective!

It is a fantastic feat just given the tire handicap alone. I have also enjoyed watching your fantastic Pontiac over the years. In the early years running NMCA. I was struggling with my 421 2+2 and you made it look easy.

Serious Pontiac bashers out in Flint where I used to street race. That car would be a riot.

Yup, "D port' and the like...

A Ram Air II Firebird was one of the fastest STREET cars in our part of the country, Chebby 396-375 killer. Unfortunately Mr Stevens, may he rest in peace, made a mistake getting away from a civilian vehicle coming his way in the lane he was in. The left lane.
Two lane blacktop road and the car was destroyed and Mr Stevens killed.
The civilian vehicle and the other race vehicle were unharmed.

Street Racing is not always a happy experience for some. Mr Stevens was a good guy. RIP

Tom V.

Aren't they long branch rather than logs?

I hear you Tom. The track is unquestionably safer. The safety crew alone says it all.

Congrats!!!!

congrats guys! Amazing for sure. Rick is a nice guy too.

Congrats on a fantastic run!!

I believe it is in the intake manifold.

As I seem to recall, there was an intake manifold flow comparison done several years ago in HPP;
If I recall correctly the reduced depth in the plenum directly under the carburetor for the aluminum intake manifolds actually hurt performance on the top end - so that infact the standard cast intake manifold flowed better than the RAIV/455HO parts.
BUT!
When a carb spacer was placed between the intake and carburetor of the RAIV/455HO setup, the increased depth resulted in performance gains...

So to me, it's all in the intake, and how the two piece RAIV intake actually has the bottom of the plenum too close to the bottom of the carburetor.

The fact that Mr Mino (of RAII notoriety) has spoken up congratulating you two on a fantastic accomplishment seems to be the icing on the cake!

Only the 72 HO intake has the raised floor - the others are the same.