What fuel pumps r u guys using?
 

I need a high flow EFI pressure fuel pump for my Catalina. I need it to supply 50+ psi and up for a turbo install. Horsepower wise it must supply possible 1200 to 1500 HP and my 2000cc injectors. It is also a full street car and would see miles on the road. So it has to be hardy enough for continuous use. I'm also looking at E85 although our area just changed over to E54 (damn it) but I could also require it to run alcohol.
I'm OK with electric or if I need to, go to a belt driven pump. Any insight you guys have or direct experience with these higher HP pumps that you can recommend to me, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
Mark

Weldon Racing Pumps

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I run two electric pumps, a smaller one for driving and trying to help keep fuel temps in control and a big Aeromotive pump when in boost.
Moving large amounts of fuel all the time will heat the fuel to boiling and that will cavitate a pump to ruin.

Anyone running the Holley twin pumps? They have a big one but do not recommend it fir any street use, especially in temps over 90 degrees. The Holley 200 can be run as one pump and then your system can activate second pump when needed. But I'm afraid the 200 will not flow enough????
Anyone running belt drive pumps on the street? I've got a 150A Hilborn pump but I'm not sure how they stand up to street miles? I would have to find out what psi the pump makes at lower rpms also. I have to be sure I have the minimum (50ish) psi at idle.

I'd prefer to run an exterior pump too. Not sure I want to go into my fuel cell to modify it to run an in-tank pump/pumps. But it can be done if necessary.

Mark

Mark here is the pump that I use . Its continuous and is a reliable pump for the street. This is the one big chief used with is first car as a dual set up.. You should check it out..

http://www.magnafuel.com/protuner.html

Race pump is a Waterman Mini Bertha, second pump is a Prodigy 42402 which has a built-in speed controller that can be an external source like Holley Dominator EFI.

http://fuelab.com/products/race/prod...r_efi_in_line/

I have a belt driven Weldon pump, after needing to add a second electric to keep up.

Have a Waterman cable drive with a Weldon mechanical, which is made by Waterman and private labeled.
Give Jim at Weldon a call. Great amount of knowledge and very accommodating.

Mark...give Hilborn a call http://hilborninjection.com/ they can tell you what you need to know about your pump .

BTW they are also a dealer for Weldon and Waterman products

Nothing that would work on your car Mark. I'll try harder next time around.

You should use a fuel pump controller on the street. Aremotive makes one. It PWM's the pump when fuel demand it low and increase as fuel is needed. Keeps fuel temps in check for street driving.

I pulled the plug on a Magnafuel 750 on E-Bay. $437.00 which I thought was a great price (free shipping). I was looking at Magnafuels site and they do not recommend pump controllers, at least not for their units? I was surprised to see that. Not sure where I saw it but it was because of the strain on the pump at lower voltages. Or I think that was it. Causing damage to the motor? This pump is good for 20-120 psi and it's supposed to supply enough fuel, boosted, for 1600 hp. I think I'll be good, LOL. Or, the motor will hit 1600 HP---once---and the pump will not matter anymore! HA!

Mark

A picture of planes refueling in the air just crossed my mind.... run a quick connect to the car your racing and fuel his car too

Mark. You should call them and ask them about a pwm pump controller. It does not lower voltage to the pump but instead sends a pulsing current to the pump of 12v at diffrent duty cycles. Aremotive does not suggest a controler for there pumps that regulates current either. That is why they developed the pwm controller. On a side note i have ran an A1000 with e85 for over 2 hours of highway driving with out having fuel heating issues.

I used an A1000 on my turbocharge '73 TA too. It ran fine. But It does not move enough fuel for my needs on my current car. My TA ran a CSU blow thru 850 carb and the A1000 worked great. I do remember reading about the new controllers pulsing the pump too but I forgot about that until you posted it. I may look into it. Thanks for the heads up and reminding me.

Mark

1,500 HP on the street?!:oogle:

I had the complete Weldon set up on my car before the upgrades. It did have the Pulse width monitor (PWM) as well, the purpose was to Lowe the pump speed while having enough volume to run the car in street applications. All the pwm does is lower the pump speed in order not to overheat the pump while on the street.

A great setup but without a second pump just wouldn't keep up with E85 with the cars power. Combine that with the noise output with a second, I went cable drive.

1600 HP would rip my poor bird in half. Are you bringing that thing to Pontiac Heaven Mark? I wouldn't mind seeing it make a pass.

another option is to talk to Josh Davis at Fuelab. They have great products and even better service.

I plan on running two of the "Bosch 044" fuel pumps that do not drop pressure at high flow demands. They will be installed in a Surge Tank at the front of the vehicle. Plumbing from the surge tank will go to the Engine Fuel Rails/Regulator and return to the Surge Tank.

A pair of the Walbro / TI Automotive TIA485-2 F90000267 Fuel Pump 450LPH fuel pumps in the Tanks, inc fuel tank will feed the surge tank.

The Walbro and Bosch 044 fuel pumps will be staged as far as fuel pump demand on what pumps are on and when. The engine will be a boosted engine configuration but will be street driven with one tank EFI pump and one surge tank EFI pump "on" at lower HP levels.

Tom V.

I have been stuck on the road when a single efi fuel pump set-up died.

If you can hear your fuel pumps you have way to much muffler! LOL

Tom, I really would like to run a front tank, but I'm nervous about having any tank/supply up in the front of a street/strip car. I've been thinking of building/installing a tank up front for the strip only, leaving it all empty for normal use, using valves at the injectors to switch from gas coming from the rear tank, then switch to a front tank for the strip. I believe the 91 swill we have here should allow a safe 14 psi with correct tuning and that would be about 1000hp on the street. The front tank would then supply E85, or alcohol for the strip. We just changed away from E85 down here to E55/E54 because of some law about flex fuel crap. My 2000cc injectors should be fine for alcohol at 1200 HP and up. I do have a nice 3 gallon pretty/shiny surge tank I could mount on the firewall. I could use a smaller rear pump to supply fuel from the rear tank, into the surge tank, then use my big pump out of the surge to supply the engine. Then drain the surge thru the engine system to run alcohol with the rear tank, pump, and lines closed off. The return from the regulator bypass can run back to the surge tank in each system. When I'm using the system for the 91 premium I can open the surge return to go back to the rear tank. Just lots of plumbing.

Mark

PM to you Mark.

Tom V.

NO tank on firewall !!!

Build a dual fuel sytem!

For pump gas street use, a RobbMc Power surge may be your best bet for street use. (1000 hp rated)(1100 carbureted)
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...owersurge.html
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/ins...PowerSurge.doc
In street mode you should only need something like a Holley or Mallory pump if no place for a stock pump on your setup.


Build something similar for when you switch to ethanol. (with an appropriate supply pump)

Use two main tanks in trunk. One for each fuel. You'll need changeover valves on both supplies and main tank returns.

Your MS3 will support a flex fuel sensor. I was reading the "?" marks in the settings in Tuner studio and think that should work well.
As you switch tanks over it will sense the fuel difference and compensate accordingly.
Anything left in rails will only slightly affect actual percentages of ethanol in either tank and flex fuel sensor compensates for it.

Get yourself a drum of E98 for racing and run pump gas for cruising.

All great info guys, thanks.

NO tank on firewall !!!
Lol Bruce. Remember, my firewall is 15 inches ahead of the clutch area. Right at the center/middle of the motor. No normal firewall safety problems with clutch explosions.

Mark

Mark...keep in mind a surge tank located up front (or anywhere) is safer full than empty. Empty it has fumes which are explosive. At least liquid gas/alc isnt explosive.

Good Post Aaron and a concept often missed in discussions about fuel systems.

Tom V.

Very true Aron and great catch/reminder. I do know this however I failed to think about it as I was considering my alternatives. My biggest concern for a front mount surge is the fuel leaking if punctured in an accident. Then contacting hot surfaces. If I use a front mount surge tank of some sort (I have one purpose built 3 gallon surge tank and one 3.5 gallon Moon tank for consideration), I would use them as first return destination after the regulator and then overfill back to the rear tank. That way it would be full almost all the time except under full fuel flow (WOT) where it might drop in level if the rear pump does not completely keep up with demand. But that would be a very short lived time. It would be full all other times.

Mark

That is exactly the way that the Autocross systems are set up and function with their Surge Tanks. Tank always full unless the fuel demand lowers the fuel slightly if the pusher pump cannot keep up.

The surge tanks I use are made out of .120 wall heat treated aluminum and would survive many potential crashes scenarios without a potential puncture.

A ripped off fuel line or a lousy mounting system (like Daddy Dave's NOS bottle flying out of the car in his crash) would concern me more than the potential fuel leak after doing a quality surge tank installation.

Tom V.