Wheel wells & the vacuum canister
 

I have repop wheel wells for my 68. I had put the originals in storage so I knew where the vacuum can, wiper fluid bottle, & rubber flaps get installed.

So today, I dug them out of storage & it appears I saved the ones from my parts car which did not have hideaways. So, I need to figure out were the vacuum can originally went. I know approximately, just not exactly.

Interestingly I found two small indents in the old wheel wells that do appear to line up with the original can & bracket. Can anyone confirm if all the wheel wells had those dimples for the canister bracket? It makes sense from a production standpoint, but before I drill holes, I thought I would check with you guys.

Just to close the thread, I measured things & the dimples are in fact for the canister. Interestingly the repop wells have the bottom hole, & its "close" to the factory location, but no top hole. Got figured out now. :)

My 69 LeMans has the dimples so I would imagine they all did.

There are two substantially different tubs variations, some have the stapled on lower rubber skirt at the back and others have an extended design with the steel coming lower down and no rubber add on. Not sure if its early-late, a plant thing or even a 68vs69 thing.

I wonder where I can get the staples that hold them in place. They are an incredibly strong wire staple, only 1/2" across. I will drill the holes, but need to find a replacement for those. Not sure if our host has those or not.

Here 'ya go...
https://secure.amesperf.com/qilan/De...A&web_access=Y

So, my plan was to pre drill & hand install the staples, after I paint the housings. Did you just bend your staple ends over? What did you do?

These wheel wells also have two extra 1/2" holes across from the holes that secure them to the top of the fender. No clue why those would be there. Going to weld them in.

any chance you could post a pic of the location for the canister?

Do you have original wheel wells? The dimples should be there for the bracket, drivers side opposite location of the wiper washer bottle, but closer to the fender. My fender wells are not in the car yet, but I could give you some measurements if you need them.

Could those holes be for the wire harness holder (not sure of the nomenclature) that holds the engine harness secure on top of the inner fender (wheel well)?

I'll take a picture later on. the are symmetrical with the two large 1/2" holes that secure the top of the fender to the fender. It does have the wire harness holes & they are in the correct location. These wells, are very much like the originals & fit very good. The just have too many holes :)

I found a picture thanks to google!

Here you can see all four holes. My originals only have the two near the inside edge.

I could use plastic plugs like the one used in the opposite side battery tray mount thats not used.
But for the life of me I can't see a purpose for these.


http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-8ncoer...0.1280.jpg?c=2

That's exactly what I did when I replaced mine. Did it with the wheelwells on the car. Wasn't too hard. My fender also still has the mounts for the vacuum canister still in place if that helps you. My car has been modified with an electric actuator to control the hideaway doors but the vacuum canister mounts are still there.

I found dimples in another set of wells that I was hanging on to for reference (primarily for the water shield locations) didn't realize they had dimples for the canister. worked out perfect. makes sense they would be there for assembly purposes. I am adding power windows to my car from another 68. all the dimples were they for the wire boots, etc. made it easy to locate :)

Did you fill in the extra hole in the rearward bottom of the of the left fender well? the originals had a hole on the right side, but not the left. it was unused & no clue what its for. After markets have a hole on both sides. The holes are close to the two body mount holes, but closer to the lower tops of the water shields.

Kinda makes me wonder if those top holes are used for sheet metal alignment for the press that makes these? seems so odd that the extra holes in the top exist.

Yep, that's what I did. VERY tedious, surprisingly so. :cry:

They are for different models (like the Grand Prix that have wider hoods and narrower fenders. I imagine that the upper portion of those tubs are used on several models across GM and only the out edging was unique to fit specific models to match fender contours. Often the dies for parts like this are actually a series of partial dies that bolt together so that different variations of similar parts can be made without complete separate tooling.

That makes sense!

So did you leave the staples with the galvanized coating, or did you paint over them after install? Guessing the trick will be bending them over without marring up the paint. have any picts by chance?

Here is a pic of a 69 GP, you can see the fenders bolt to the two "outer" holes in the tub plus one of the "inner" holes. They blocked the unused holes with black plastic plugs.

So do these A body repops fit the GP, or your saying the die that makes them aftermarket probably has the top half somewhat universal to fit more cars?

I suppose GM probably had one mold for each model car, hence just the two outer holes.

Is that picture from your endless 69 fleet? :) Amazing how far away the fan is from the radiator!

No, I didn't take any specific pics of that. Pretty straightforward. I actually used the original holes in the wheelhouses. One hard part was holding the guard in place while trying to drill matching holes in the guards. I work alone here and I've got long arms but that was a bit of a chore. Holding the staples and trying to flatten them with something from the other side was just as bad.
I left them bare. So far, there is a trace of rust on the ends but not bad. It should be a pretty easy chore if you've got a spare pair of hands around to help you hold things in place.
I SHOULD have put it all on before assembling to the car!!!

Not too worried about it, I was just curious how you did it & was wondering how well the finish is holding up on them. makes sense that the ends would rust as they are probably cut off & bare steel on the tips.

As I get older I have become a gluten for information & enjoy taking note of how everyone does things. Can learn something new even on some of the smallest of details. In other words, I have become a putz. :D

But as an example, I just realized the ends of the staples would be bare steel. makes perfect sense why, but I would not have though about that without your comment.

It's one of mine! The inner fends don't interchange because the outlip is different to mimic the contour of the fenders. If you look carefully at original inner fenders you can see the line where the outer and inner dies met. You can actually see it on some original paint 69 quarter panels, the bottom half of the stamping die was the same on hardtop coupes and on convertibles but the upper half was different. Where they meet you can see the imperfection on the contour of a virgin panel.

Don't know if this helps but here's a few pics of the driver side inner fender and vacuum canister mounted. 1969 GTO Convertible.

Interesting! I never realized how different looking the 69 can & bracket is from my 68.

is that all original equipment?

I can't say for sure how much is OE. Its been restored. My guess maybe 20 years ago. The engine is not #s matching but it does have a correct 400 and a 69 GTO Qjet. Since the engine didn't match, I decided to swap out the TH400 for a 4sp TH200-4R. You can see the relay for the transmission on the inner fender. Thrilled with the tranny upgrade.

I've never seen a canister that looked like that. I've never had a '69 but I don't believe they changed it from '68...I could be wrong though.

According to Ames, 69 GTO had a 4 rib cannister and alot of the aftermarkets have a 19 rib cannister.

Here's a picture of the one out of my 68 after bead blasting. I believe it's original to the car. I never really understood the rib count in the books. Is this 4, 8 or 9 ribs? :o

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...8&d=1493719852

Thought I'd post a small follow up on the staples. I removed a couple of the originals & after looking at them decided to look in my basement.
I have a box of senco construction staples. 1/2" x 1-1/2" long, 16g a galvanized. To my surprise they fit perfect.

Only thing I noticed is when I cut them to the same length as the originals, then bend them over the ends are a bit long where they overlap each other. Might try another one, but cut them shorter than the originals. The original staples make kind of a messy looking arc that I have no way of reproducing anyway.

So then this got me thinking. I can get these same construction staples in stainless. Only downside might be that they could be brittle and break off when I bend the ends over. but they might hold up to one bend & thats all I need.

call it a hunch, but I am willing to bet these construction staples are the same thing they are selling in the kits, just shortened. nothing special at all it turns out..... :)

68RT

I make my own out of stainless paper clips. They stay looking nice and don't rust. Once you find the right wire diameter in the paper clips it's easy. I've done this for many restorations, including the cork air cleaner seal on baby birds, rubber radiator shrouds, etc...

My car had the same holes with plastic plugs from factory,may have been 69 and later deal

I happen to be working on the inner fenders of my fathers 69 as we speak. It's an early Sept 68 build. I'll snap some pics today and maybe it will help you guys decipher early and late differences.

I can tell you it does have the rubber dust shielding on the lower portions of the fenders that was mentioned earlier.

Here are shots of the driver side inner fender. These are original to the car, 9C 68 build date. Has the 4 holes on top, the lower rubber dust shields, and has several dimples around the area where the vacuum canister would mount, but I believe it would be the 2 dimples perpendicular to each other on the outer edge closest to the fender. Also has 4 more dimples above the control arm area. Not sure why.

These pics should show all those dimples if you can make the pictures big enough.

I played around with drawing to highlight the dimples. Driver side inner fender.

The 2 on the right I drew a line between I believe would be for the vacuum canister if the car were equipped with hidden headlights.

The other dimples circled I'm not sure of their purpose.

And here are more dimples found around the control arm area. Again same driver side inner fender.

The 2 holes I drew a line between are where the factory had plastic wire loom holders.

Did you paint yours yet? Just sprayed mine last night. Can't decide if I like them or not. The ended up close to 30% gloss, just above a satin I would say. Seems close to original, but looks a little dull. I'm never happy though, so I have to try to take that into consideration.... :(

If you find them a bit low gloss now you probably won't like them in a few weeks, gloss will recede over a few days and weeks.

This omni MTK, has been pretty good. So far the steering column, heater box, etc has stayed the same sheen it looked after 24 hours. I for sure don't want it any more to the satin side, so hopefully its stays put. If they would have come out too glossy, I would be worried about that too. I am my own best enemy ;)

I second guess everything lately

I have noticed both PPG & SPI epoxies do that though. they seem to loose gloss for up to a week, possibly more.

Yep, painted them 2 weeks ago. I went fairly glossy, about 80%. It has gloss but still has a nice sheen to it under the lighting. Like North says, this stuff will dull more over time. After 6 months of engine heat it will probably lose 10-15% of it's gloss. So I tend to go a little more initially. Did the firewall the same. Since the heater box is supposed to be glossy I went 100% on that with a base coat/clear coat that I had left over from another job. Overkill but this isn't a concours restoration, more of a correct appearing hot rod.
Control arms are aftermarket and powder coated black, then the dull plastic fan shroud etc....so there is a lot of contrast under there.

what paint lines/products are you using? I have been painting for many years & I don't really see that happening to an amount that its noticeable & I have flattened a lot of parts. If they are getting flatter, its such small amount I can't see it. 5% I suppose is possible, but its not like 60% gloss is turning into 45 or 50%

just curious.

To be honest I love the look of flattened urethane clears, but there is no good way to fix a white scratch on flattened black. :)

I use BASF products. The flattened black stuff is just a single stage mix.

I use the semi flattened urethane clears. Did my wifes entire car with it, mainly just to seal the primer. Wasn't interested in painting it yet as she daily drives it. I can live with the chips and scratches it will get much easier this way :D Maybe in a few years I'll paint it.

Funny though, everywhere we take it, I get asked all the time "what color is that I love it" When I reply, it's just primer with satin clear, I get some really funny looks lol. Here's a pic of it.

If you look in the street section I have several pages posted of painting dad's 69 GTO. I blew this one apart and painted everything for him. Towards the end you may be able to see some of the black done in the engine compartment. We just finished assembling most of the front end today. I think it's called "painting dads GTO"

flattened clears are awesome looking, no question.

I also like the look & texture of SEM's trim & euro black sprayable (quart cans) paint. problem is, it has no harder & a drip of just about anything beside water can stain it. Otherwise, it has an excellent looking finish.

I know what you mean. That's one of the reasons I covered that car in satin clear, because the primer alone stains easily.

Took an original wheel house into the shop, heated up a patch of undercoating & diligently wiped it off using only a plastic scraper & wax / grease remover as to not monkey with the finish.

I feel a lot better now. :) its really close in sheen & texture. Took a few photos where I tried to catch the same lights in the shop.

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http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1500941916

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...2&d=1500941924

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...3&d=1500941932

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...4&d=1500941993

Just stumbled on this from opg after getting their annual "holiday savings" flyer.

They appear to have a correct looking vacuum can, First thing I noticed was the ribs looking correct, but the image seems to be photo shopped.... especially the vacuum fitting ;) Hhhmmmm. thoughts?

https://www.opgi-static.com/common/G...?v=11820131509

Year One has one with the correct ribs also.

Is it possible these have been revised & maybe our host also has this style now?

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...9&d=1509496627