New edelbrock heads
 

Just ordered a bare set of of their 60609 cnc heart chambered heads with repositioned sparkplug .couldn't get much info on this site's search .Just wondering if heads come with seats ground ?

Looking at summit it don't look like they are ground.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60609

What are your intentions with them?

Ported? Street / strip? etc etc?

The seats won't be cut and the guides will need to be honed...a lot!

X2 with Paul.

Please post up pics when you get them!

Thanks, Kris

I'm assuming that those Edelbrock aluminum heads come with push rod guide plates, would that be correct?? Thanks, Carmine.

Guides,longer valves and valve job no brainer.My original edelbrocks would have needed all of the above ,plus I'll be able to run higher seat height.I was hoping seat's were cut and guides reamed though ,so when they arrived I could put them on my flow bench.

Here is a pic of flow bench fwiw

The valve job applyed will greatly influence flow numbers which should be nice and fat starting at .300" lift.
If these heads will flow more then your last set I really think you need to go with 3.73 gears out back.

Your Bench looks similar to one of Smokey Yunick's test rigs. I helped Jim Butler and the Boys with a similar set-up (4 cylinder Tempest Block) many years ago.
Give you an "A" on this one. About as close to uniform testing as you are going to get without spending lots of $$$$.

So what are you using for a vacuum source?

Tom V.

ps I built a bench for a 4 cylinder engine that would allow me to read each cylinder at the same time and also compare distribution
of the air to the runners in the manifold, the head, and the cylinders.
This bench was also capable of reading positive (Boost) pressure distribution to each cylinder.

Thanks for A rating Tom,vac is being produced by 3 5.5 10 amp vacuums ..they will generate 28 inch up to about 240 cfm .using a Flowquick .I get real close results .Setup lets me take 4 port readings in 10 minutes due to the quick change over from cyl to cyl.There is also an extra vac that is used for entrance porting using the quick disconnect system.Thanks again Tom

28 inch test pressure up to about 240 cfm is fine.
Bob Mullen (426 Hemi Cylinder Head Porter) flowed a lot of stuff at lower test pressures vs 28" and his stuff ALWAYS WORKED.
Tom V.

Nice set up Tom,one other thing that cut alot of time when testing was the modified 1 inch thick radius block that bolted to the port entrance .I did the putty thing for a few ports too many.

I have a similar plexiglas plate (matches stock E-Heads) that has slots so I can position it over the port opening properly. I use button head allen bolts so that the airflow disruption is minimal.

So are you a member of the Flow Bench Forums?

Tom V.

Yes,same here bolt head is almost shallow with radius block .No forum yet sir.

http://www.flowbenchtech.com/forum/

Have to sign up but they are great people and will like to have you join.
Only takes a short time. Tell them that I suggested you join and post up your picture and your vacuum source specs.

Tom V.

cnc heads
 

What size valves will you be using and will they be used on your current engine ?:old:

Don't know yet , I'm would like a 1.9 install height and thinking 2.19 intake and retain the 1.66 exhaust valve.

watching this post
 

Looking at the same heads for street use. using Hyd rollers and checking what is being done for assembly for valve dia, installed height, rocker arm manufacture and of course can they all be under a factory valve cover? Thanks for sharing info
Paul

cnc heads
 

How do most engine builders get 1.9 I.H. with E heads ? :old:

Need a 5.275" long valve.

Well just you see the brand new Edelbrock heads all I can say is that they are nice.The exhaust port exit is small ,but may reduce any reversion.Not sure 1.66 or 1.77 valve.Chamber is as advertised smooth and shiny.Edelbrock should have made these mods when their 1st head came out.Hope to send some pics

I could see a 1.77 valve on a 400 cfm E-Head but many suggest about 70% flow for the exhaust side vs the intake side.
My little 1.71" diameter exhaust valve and port flows 255 cfm at 25" of water test pressure, which would say that the intake
should be 365 cfm with no flow match issues.

How much airflow do you want out of these heads Joe?

Tom V.

Are you talking about the round-port or d-port heads? Attached are pictures of a 72cc chamber and an 87cc chamber. Both are d-port heads.

These are round ports Paul. Tom not going crazy no pressed tubes,something similar to my high velocity 305 -310 cfm @ 600 with 2.11 valve.I've got 1 intake port that flows real good mid numbers 212@300/244@350/260@400/278@450/[email protected]/[email protected] porting is hard to duplicate ,left angle and right angle seem to be always different

A good solid 300 cfm head will be fine for a 630 HP type engine and very easy on parts.
Butler builds a ton of them.

Tom V.

Thanks Sir,I know flow numbers are just part of the dynamics, as long as the ports are kept small and tapered.

Are these the heads you just ordered?

What are the numbers at 100 and 200?

Nice numbers...why the change from you previous eheads in your signature?

Flow numbers are from the best port with previous heads ,which I would like the new heads to mimic.The previous heads were to become a semi wide port(no pushrod buldge).Then went back to original pushrod layout.Installed heads ran some 1/4 miles there was always a ticking that wouldn't stop from valve train.Removed heads found pushrods were taping the bronze inserts,also noticed a lot of reversion.When I went to wide port I didn't have a flow bench.Anyways after opening the port to make way for the much bigger entrance ,then going back to the original entrance the port ended up having a backwards taper.Now heads have been filled to regain taper towards the bowl.CS is very important.So now I have a head that full of splash zone and a chamber I mig welded up to try to create a heart shape.So this led me to the purchase of the 60609 head. I m will be reinstalling the old heads just to see if there is an improvement now that the port taper is going in the right direction.I'm still learning this porting game

Practical. So i regret tossin a cracked 455 block AFTER several head gasket stencil efforts for a tabletop flow bench.

I use a brushless motor to spin 1 vacuum cleaner disk to 58,000 rpm. My 2-stage series brushless approach was the bomb for flow and depression.

I still have the other half, I'll give it away.I should have kept the cam tunnel intact so that a cam could be installed .

Today I was comparing the new style chamber to the old style edelbrock O ports I have,using modeling clay.Applied the scallop chamber to the old heads.Flow tested ,numbers went up 10-15 cfm at every .050.between .350 and .650 lift.Found the motherload of hidden flow.Now to get the welder out and start filling those 93 cc chambers with scallops. FWIW.

Any photos?

Good Job. Maybe those Edelbrock Guys Do know a thing or three about Pontiac heads.
(Or, they had some good advice from someone.)

Tom V.

I've read somewhere that "the chamber is an extension of the port" I can say that with certainty it is a true statement.

Ok sent heads to the Butlers for hone and valve job.They suggested going 2.19 intk (fine with me)and 1.77 exh.I think the 1.77 is a bit too much ,too close to intk valve.Thinking 1.66 would be fine.What do you think?

I used a 1.71" Ferrea Ford Exhaust Valve that was very close to the right length vs the stock 1.66" valves.

(954) 733-2505

Tom V.

Intake flow wise in regards to the chamber, take a paint strainer that close to a 45 degree taper, or make it a 45 degree taper.
Cut the bottom off close the the valve bowls Throat size but smaller and drop the cone in the bowl so that it contacts the 45 degree seat.
What do you see for chamber wall contact?

I would like to say something here and it's not ment to be mean or make you feel bad, but when a racer like Art Peterson and many others can run mid 10s with a 400 cid motor the same weight car as yours , but restricted by iron D port heads leads me to say your barking up the wrong tree by looking for greater air flow for higher power levels, you need better average port velocity numbers to make fatter average power numbers that are more useful!

Once again , what I posted in my last above paragraph is to state that either your not making the power you should with the combo of parts you have, or your making the power and not getting all of it to the ground!

Steve the heads that Butler has or getting are untouched bare 60609 .I know it's a confusing thread.Butler recommends the 2.19 and 1.77 exhaust.I Don't see the need for 1.77.As far as power yes there is a whole lot more on the table.Reason for lack of power are ,too low spring pressures 450 lb over nose,next is port had incorrect taper,next fuel pump flow insufficient.Fixes...getting much better springs ,heads have been replaced with cnc chamber 60609 that Butlers will get (in the mail) Fuel system has been changed to Tanks Walbro intank pump with new tank.So now I'm asking if I need the 1.77 exhaust valve.This is where I'm at now.

Ok just got off the phone with Butler he received heads and informed me that there is no problem with going 1.77 exh.Next issue is whst type rockers I should run?looking at crower stainless steel

I would take Butlers recommendation and fly with it!

Stated- "...leads me to say your barking up the wrong tree by looking for greater air flow for higher power levels, you need better average port velocity numbers to make fatter average power numbers that are more useful!"

A fwiw and for conversation only, a rocker arm with a 0.170" offset will allow the pushrod bulge to be completely eliminated on a Edelbrock cylinder head. No pushrod sleeves necessary. This what we did using a T&D shaft system with a set of semi-machined castings delivered without the pushrod holes. I didn't want the intake runner volume huge. The ports ended up a little over 1.250" wide and about 2.300" tall and the intake runner volume was only about 234 cc's. They flowed 329 cfm at .700" lift (28") and supported 700 hp at 6900/7000 rpm on a 4.125" stroke 450cid engine. The valves were 2.150" diameter.

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Joe445, my post above was to support steve25 comment quoted. But the numbers I posted were not on pump gas. Thay were based on 11.2 compression with the heads.

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