New to Forum. New to me 70 TA
 

Hi Guys!

I'm new to the forum. I looked around at various places and this seemed to be the best Firebird forum, so I'm glad to be here.

I recently picked up a 70 white TA 4 speed. Pretty basic with only 3 options: tinted windshield, push button radio, and chrome trim moulding I would gladly trade away the chrome trim for a console!!
I've owned 2 70 TA's in the past and a 70 Formula 400. I've always liked them; just been away from them for awhile.

This car is really nice. I'm the 3rd owner and I have a bunch of the original paperwork on the car, including the protect-o-plate! What's unusual to me is that the car is completely stock, and has never been modded at all. It was owned by the guy that bought it new, and then a woman owned it after that, and now me. It's had a repaint and the windshield replaced.

It has 55,000 original miles and still has the original shocks, wheels, etc. It still has the original spare which has never been on the ground and no evidence that lug nuts have ever been on the wheel! That wasn't even mentioned when I bought the car, so I was shocked when I took the spare out. This car has the smaller sway bars on it too. At first I thought someone swapped out the good ones, but after reading on here I guess it's not that uncommon to have the wrong ones. I can't leave it that way; I enjoy the way these feel with the big bars!

Anyway, lots of little things to fix and update, so that will keep me busy for quite a while!

Here's a few pics:

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...0-2017%201.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...0-2017%202.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...0-2017%203.jpg

Thanks for a great forum, John

Nice find and welcome to the forum. Lots of knowledge about these cars here.

John,
Congrats and welcome to the forum! I saw that car online when it popped up for sale a few weeks ago - it's one of the more original cars I've seen. Hard to find them like that - you did well.
I love the "no console" look - much cleaner/meaner. And I see yours has the correct shifter for a non-console car, too -- many seem to have gotten the shifter with the larger bend that was intended for console cars.

Welcome to the forum . I use to razz my old boss at the body shop....he would show me the spare in a car he bought.....said it looks like it's Nevah seen the ground..I'd say ...I bet it still has the original air in it from the factory....lol...it went right ovah his head......:)

Welcome to the forum, nice looking car.

Cool need more pix of the original stuff. Are trim rings standard on 70 and option on 71?

Any links to the for sale ad?

No, the trim rings are incorrect for the car. Removing those and getting the wheels repainted due to trim ring scratches are on my short list to do. Also the nose has some cracks in the paint so I'll need to get that redone properly too.

Changing out the stock shocks today and installing recently acquired 1.25" front sway bar. I'll keep all of the original parts, but I want the car to perform as intended. I kept thinking to myself when I was looking at the car that the sway bars looked small, then found the thread on here about them.

Still looking for a nice 7/8" rear bar.

More pics to come. Thanks for the comments guys.

John

Very nice ride, congrats!

Sweet ride. Well played sir.

Very nice rare car you have there.

Very cool, indeed! Welcome aboard!

Thanks for the compliments!

I did the shocks and front sway bar today.
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...tech/007_6.jpg

Everything I can tell about the shocks makes me pretty sure they are original.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...tech/008_5.jpg

I should be good on shocks for the next 47 years now! :)

Welcome
 

Welcome to the club and that is a super cool car. I too like the non-console look!

Mike,

trim rings are optional on '70 and '71, but standard on the '72s.

I'm surprised the front sway bar wasn't 1-1/4". I believe all '70-'81 T/As should have the 1-1/4" front bar. Some '70 T/As had the 5/8" rear bar (mine does), but were intended to have the 7/8".

A friend of mine was seriously considering this car, but couldn't agree with the seller on price. Congrats on the purchase - looks like a nice one.

When I was looking at it I thought someone switched them out at some point to upgrade another Firebird or Camaro, but then I found a thread (I think on this forum) that talked about several T/As from both build plants coming with Formula front and rear sway bars.

That really made sense to me because this car seems so stock and untouched. I really think it was factory built with the smaller front and rear bars, but hard to ever know for sure.

John

Here are some of the stampings I have found on the car for you numbers guys!

Trim tag:
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...%20Tag%202.jpg

Engine Block:
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...lock%20VIN.jpg

M20 Trans:
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...ns%20Stamp.jpg

3.55 Posi Rear Axle:
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...0Stamp%204.jpg

Wow!
Congrats on the super cool Trans Am!!

Welcome here!!

Congrats on the T/A - it is a beauty!

Love the photos and the originality of the car.

It's been my observation that the small (Formula) rear bars were on a LOT of '70 T/As... perhaps more than half. The smaller front bar also shows up somewhat regularly, although not as common as the rear.

Would love to know why this was.... engineering issues, supply issues, assembly mistakes?

The old shocks look like originals. I'd hang on to them (in a box... not on the car :)). What did you replace them with?

Yes, I'm going to clean the originals up a little and definitely hang onto them.

I replaced them with Bilstein B6 series.

John

Nice!

Does anybody know if the incorrect bars were installed during a particular time span and from only one plant? I would have guessed that the wrong bars would have been more likely installed on an early production car, especially when it is an all new model like the second gen birds were at this time. I believe mine came with the correct size bars and it is a February built car. This one is a later build date and I would have thought they would have the bugs out by then.

And along the same lines.....did later year Firebirds also use the 7/8" bar? I'm trying to figure out what years I can search for one from.

Thanks. John

Here is what I have in my notes:

SWAY BARS:

Front Bars:
ALL '70-'81 T/As & Y96/Y99 equipped Formulas came with 1-1/4" (1.25) front sway bars.
Std. Formulas had 1-1/8" (1.125) bars.
Std. Birds had 15/16" (.938) till 1975, then it increased to 1"

Rear Bar:
1970-72 T/A & Y96/Y99 Birds = 7/8" (.875)
1973-77 T/A & Y96/Y99 Birds = 13/16" (.813)
1978-81 T/A & Y96/Y99 Birds = 5/8" (.625)
1978-81 WS6/WS7 equipped = 3/4" (.750)

:)

Not for sure on the lack of the bigger bar in 1970.
Don't remember a bulletin on it?

:confused:

Great info, thanks!

Looks like pretty limited usage of the 7/8" bar.

John

I don't normally get too excited about a spare tire :) but when I got the car home and got the spare out of the trunk I was kind of blown away. A brand new (old) Goodyear Polyglas GT F60-15!

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...20Jack%203.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...20Tire%201.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...20Tire%204.jpg


And just like the tire, the wheel looks brand new. I don't think it's ever had a lug nut touch it.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...20Jack%206.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...20Tire%205.jpg

As I get things sorted out I'm really liking this car. After finishing the gas tank I took it out cruising for a couple hours. It's a real joy to drive.

John

Beautiful car! Gotta love a T/A that has never been screwed with!

I'm with you on wanting a console. They look good without them, but when you're driving them it's a different story.

I understand the want for a console, but I'm guessing I'm not the only person here who thinks that it's unique enough, that I (personally) would not add it to such a correct car.

huh - I would have thought the spare wouldn't be a ralley wheel - cool find!

Yup X2...... I wanted to put a right hand mirror on my 67 Gto....it's not on the PHS ...so it don't get it.

Now you went and put the spare on the ground.....What were you thinking ! :)

Nice! Engine bay pics please.

I've been thinking about buying a T/A and am open to various years (well, all years!). Mind if I ask the price range this car fetched?

I've seen (and owned....) small bar cars from both plants. Build date seems to be random throughout the model year, too.

More pics to come.

The car was more than $40K, less than $50K.

John

Thanks. If I can find one in half as good a condition for half the price, I'd be happy! LOL

That makes sense! :)

From following these cars for a little while, it looks like the early T/A's are finally getting a little more recognition and appreciation for what they are and what they represented.

The 70 T/A I owned back in the 80's recently went thru a full rotisserie restoration and sold for somewhere in the $80-$90K range. It was perfect, but at that level you almost can't drive it anymore. Great for a collection but not so good if you want to enjoy the car.
I had the history on that car back to 1972 because that's when my older brother bought it. Never used in winter from then on so it was always a nice car with clean floor pans, frame, sheet metal, etc. I tried to make contact with the new owner but the seller wouldn't give me that info but said they would pass it on and the owner could contact me if he wanted. I haven't heard anything yet.

This car that I bought I really like because it's in very good condition, but not so much that you can't drive the heck out of it! :burnout:

John

IMHO, that was a downright reasonable price.

I am pretty sure this is below the recent price trend for an original (and beautiful, needing nothing) 4 speed '70 TA!

Another (late) welcome to the forums and congrats on a nice original '70.
On the topic of Formula sized bars on a TA, I've seen primarily Van Nuys mid through late build dates. But this could be more due to the fact that I live in the Northwest where we were shipped mainly VN builds. I was all ready to chime in that your TA must be a VN until you posted the Trim Tag with Norwood info. At least it is a fairly late build date at 06B.

Thanks! There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason on the wrong bars according to the various threads I've read about it.

"Spiral" shocks ... haven't seen any for years .. Better hang onto 'em.

Or sell them to me.

So, a 1970 TA recently sold for 80-90k? First, that's a large number with a big range...

Is there a link?

I like that number. Finally getting some respect or just a overzealous buyer

I honestly don't know what the sale price was. They were asking $89,999. I assume they got something less, but I don't know how much less. Here are the links I have to the ad. The asking price isn't in all of these but it is on one of the lower links. Also look the the link with all of the restoration thumbnails and you can see it looks extensive and correct, so if one of these cars was worth high dollars, I think this would be the one.

http://www.prestigemotorcar.com/web/...le_v2/19082142

http://www.prestigemotorcar.com/web/...s/19082142/#00

http://www.prestigemotorcar.com/web/...York/19082142/

https://www.smartmotorguide.com/L49363396

I bought the car in 1984 and I sold it around 1992. The Pontiac dealer in a neighboring city bought it from me. I had sellers remorse a couple months later and called the dealer to see if I could buy it back. :D

I still have my envelope full of receipts and info on the car.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...20Envelope.jpg

I could probably start a thread on the car, but the short story is that my brother bought it in 1972 with the idea of making it into an SCCA road race car. He did do some limited racing with it at the Regional level. The only mods he did to the car were bolt-in roll bar, windshield retaining tabs, rear window retaining straps, headers with side exit, and race tires on 15x8 Corvette rally wheels.

So the car was street driven very little after 1972 and was in great shape because of it.

I remember one oddity of the car. The VIN stamped on the engine and trans was off one digit from the VIN of the car. Engine and trans were stamped 228870N120254, but the car was 228870N120255.

You should just add to this thread. All oddities are interesting and it's still relevant. Love to see pix and all too.

I have had a few questions on the original shocks that were on the car so I cleaned them up a little. Each shock has a part number and date code.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...leaned%209.jpg



The fronts are date coded 114-70 with part number 3192132.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...leaned%203.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...leaned%207.jpg


The rears are date coded 142 70 with part number 3192293.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...eaned%2010.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...leaned%202.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...leaned%206.jpg

I'll box these up and store them away with the rest of the parts that come off of this car.

John

That is amazing to still have all 4 original shocks! I wonder if they can be rebuilt so that you can put them back on the car? Cool stuff.

As I recall, there is a guy that rebuilds those shocks. It's not cheap, but in cases like this it's worth considering.

The 70’s are really going up I thought I did good at $ 45,000 for mine 2 1/2 years ago that was a frame up.

My theory on the smaller bars. The Birds were built along side the camaro and from what I've heard the workers didn't care to much for building the Birds. They didn't want the T/A's running circles around the lowly camaro so they put smaller bars in trying to level the playing field. :)