72 SPORT GT 455HO CONV
 

this is a loaded up rare ragtop. really unique color

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Pontia...Ba~yKR&vxp=mtr

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First thought was Forrestt had a White / Gold car like this .

and turns out that is Forrestt selling this one !

I'll check my stuff and try to see if i have anything on either car , or maybe they are the same car .

This is a picture he shared on here a long time ago .
The PHS he shared way back was always a crop shot and none i have showed the lower ledger portions.


Just now saw he has a picture of it on the auction when it was White
The man has had some Ultra-Rare 455 Verts over the years.

This one was a Zone Brass Company Car from Zone 18 and 997 Internal Use
Could have other Invoices on file with PHS if lucky
Its a multi-invoice car for sure , discounted etc ...

This is the Full Copy of Invoice listed on auction now.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1527659278


http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1527659278

Hey Guys... yep..time to let it go..decided it needs a better home than I can provide...soo rare it should be in a "collection or museum".. this time around I really made it as correct as possible...it does hurt to let go..second car I ever did around 20 years ago...there is an emotional attachment:sorry:..Hey Baron...great info!..(zone brass etc) how do you see that on the phs?? Amazing your knowledge on this stuff!::hail:

beautiful car, Forrest. You did a great job with it

Great car Forrest - Rick Hendrick's Green automatic Sport went through Mecum Kissimmee and I though had sold but is on the roster for BJ in CT next month.

I'll be watching both of these with interest. Good luck!

the 5 % car usually meant that

love the car

So sad to se it go, but one's circumstances always change. I'm certain it will find a good home!
Good luck with the sale, Forrest, and please keep in touch my friend!

BTW - the Brittany Beige / Saddle gut / black top is simply stunning!

Forrest , it has most all the indicators possible , without also having Invoice #1

9D Memo - ZSI 18 xxxx
Discount 5% notation
No HoldBack Amount
Delivered to 18-997 Zone 18 Hdqtrs - Internal Use Code
License Fee
Probably a 20 , 25 or 30 in lower left corner area of ledger -- too fuzzy to read.

No Doubt About It

You should call Jim M personally at PHS and inquire if another Invoice is on file.
You will probably have to pay again if that isnt a freshly bought sample.
72 is a good year for multi-invoices still being on file
Jeff Harper had a 72 455 Lemans with 3 Invoices

What is the Body Build Date on Trim Tag ?

Hey Baron..date on build/body tag is 5C (3rd week May)...block date is 1st week of may.. kinda cool that it may be one of the last of these muscle bound ( 455 h/o) Pontiac A bodies sold?? Your info is not making it any easier to sell this.( more reasons to love the car!)..:confused13:.. I really appreciate the info!.. May have to end the auction and relist because ebay does not allow editing the description or photos after a 1st bid anymore...I always added to description/ and photos in earlier ads ( two or more years ago) because of all the questions I get..they changed the rules again! oh well..!..The guy that owns Zaxbys ( a huge restaurant chain). is a good friend of someone I know here in ga.. he is building a huge classic car museum a few miles from me..trying to get him to buy it.. that way I could visit my car whenever!:D

Forrest, your GT convert looks REALLY SHARP repainted and striped in the original color combo. GLWS!

Pretty sure he was the guy that bought a bunch of Milt's cars when he had the auction at his place.

The "general standard" deal on those company cars was 3 months or 3000 miles.
Whichever came first.

Another "general standard" was a $5000.00 cap
Big Shot Brass Hats could run on up to around $5500.00 range - like yours.

*standards almost always have exceptions > for the nit pickers

Promo / Show / Marketing / Eng-Dev , could be any dollar figure on the menu.

Here is an example of what an ordinary Georgia Sold PHS for 1972 looks like , to compare.

No license fees , Memos , Discounts , etc ...

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1527778283

okay, cards on the table
your ad listing is a Mess.
Not saying you cant sell a car.
You've sold many before.

But this is sort of one one of those Mopar Money type Lemans
Not that easy , Chris and Rick have been at it for a while already.

1 wall of solid text - needs some paragraphs and spacing.

Give just the raw car details first.
Short commentary on unique factors and production totals.

I would get Brittany Beige somewhere in opening description - in case an interested prospector has a wife, daughter, grand-daughter named Brittany.
That name exploded in the 90's. Almost everybody has somebody named Brittany now.
Might create some sub-conscious attachment.
But wouldnt try to make it a big deal about lowest production color or yada yada.

I'd do the Brass Hat Zone connection in opening too , but wouldn't go over the top with yada yada there either.

Anything that is matching numbers - VIN stamped - correct date - list it out
Block code
Carb code
Intake
Distrib
Exh Manifolds
Trans
Rear

Working AC , Cruise , Accessories , key buzzer , seat belt buzzer , etc ... nice tidbits like that.

List out anything that still needs buttoning up or replacing to be dead solid correct or fully functional. That instills confidence and minimizes "what else is swept under the carpet" thoughts.

Buyers want to know how much more expenditure are they looking at to get one as close as possible - without having to ask 4000 questions just to get the basics covered.

Your car is great and you always do great work.
The general public doesn't know you or have faith in you.
Matching numbers claims dont always pan out the same - spell it out piece by piece.
Show you are using facts , not just words.

Then after all that , write the book.
Car/Owner history , condition before restoration , restoration depth , everything you can think of... all the yada yada with a cherry on top.

$20 to get a duplicate title in NC when you lose track of one.
Maybe Georgia isnt too different.
Out of State prospects arent going to like reading - Bill of Sale Only.

DO check with PHS about multiple invoices.
That will be a knock out punch , and leave less explaining to folks who arent as much up to speed on those things.

This is a poor copy , was one of The Boss's parts cars.
But representative of what Invoice #1 would look like for your Car.

The main thing of interest to see is the lower ledger where it says
Pontiac Motor Division - ZONE 16
Charlotte NC

Yours will be like that - except ZONE 18 , Atlanta GA

When a car has multiples , still in existence , hard copies , even the weakest can see it plain as day. Life gets simpler and potential interests rise.
Not really additional monetary value involved - just an extra interest.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1527780569

To further Todd's advice and to overcome a line I have heard quite often, yes it is a LeMans but so was EVERY other GTO that year. In 1972 the GTO went back to being an option code on the LeMans.

Also make a point to mention that the Convertible GTO was canceled way back in the early spring of 1971 but that if you were astute, and knew what you were doing, you could build one of your own drop top, top horsepower A-Bodies - and that's what your 1st owner did, stacking the GT option in there as well.

Good luck!

Good strong points there Boss.

I would even maybe go so far to say

you could build one of your own drop top, top horsepower A-Bodies , with GTO endura - GTO scooped hood - Ram Air Induction - massive exhaust manifold exhaustion.
Everything a 455HO GTO Vert "would" have been - except for the O following GT .

oooo
i like that

-and that's what your 1st owner did
would replace that with
-and thats what this car IS

since the first owner terminology could get a debate from the wacky type

extra interest can create a few extra dollars , sometimes .
Interest is primary goal , the more the merrier.

eh , yeh , money works that way too
i'd be merrier if i had more of it :2cents:

Wow!! Lots of info and you are all correct...I am shutting it down to do a "rebuff" on the listing... lots of info you gave me...I guess I really fell apart listing this car.. ( Freudian slip, not wanting it to sell!)..anyway will redo it it per your thoughts.. can't thank you enough!.. Should I refer potential buyers to this forum ( done this in the past) for my history in car restos and past pictures?? Maybe get the moderators to delete these post on the listing advise? L.O.L!

I ended it.. Never done this before.. hopefully does not piss people off!...will revise per your suggestions and WILL TAKE MY TIME doing it!...great new info to publish,, Thanx! This is getting exiting!

Forrest, I wish you had brought that car to the BOP show a few weeks ago. I would have loved to seen it there.

Forrest, do you still have this car? I work for 5 Star Automotive who own the original Lamar Pontiac dealership building. They said I could use if anyone wanted to take pictures of their cars inside the showroom.

DANG that's loaded up. I have a 72 lemans 455 HO that has around 30 options on it.

No problem to me if they even delete the whole thread .

Its M_C's thread to start with , he probably doesn't mind either.



I posted that Black 72 Hard Loaded Hardtop invoice as a reference.
Don't remember whose car it is , but don't think it was Forrest's car .:noidea:

why are we deleting the thread???:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Forrest put it on the table about deleting all the advice from Boss and myself.
It should be self explanatory.

I countered with just deleting the whole thread.

They have permission to delete any or all of my posts from the thread.
No problemo :beerchug:

In semi-related news , now when you click on the link Gary posted -
it takes you to an auction for another 72 Lemans/T41 Vert listing !

1 owner
400 - 2bbl ! wow
Buckets with Auto on Column
Window sticker is cropped not to show color codes
likely has had a color change
$20k B-I-N

They must've had about 17 engine options on a 72 Lemans

No problem if my posts get deleted - just trying to help a brother out.

Relisted it today.. I talked with Jim At PHS.. he verified it is a zone/brass car;).. But no other invoices.. oh well.. good news anyway!:D Thanx Baron!..and thanx all for the nice compliments..I hope the relist is up to standards Baron! :Ithink: best I could do..deleting the thread just saves my pride on what a lousy job I did on the original listing!

Oh. Hell! That would be cool!! problem being getting the car there.. It friggen rains every day now...let's see what happens next few days.. :popcorn:Thanx!! I will try.. What a great idea!!:D .

New eBay link to Brass Hat Brittany - 455HO GT Vert

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Pontia...t/263732279421

Hope it goes to the Moon
its a Sweet Sweet Piece !

If eBay allows you to contact previous bidders somehow, you might could let them know you have updated and relisted.

Happy birthday Forrest and good luck with auction.

Beautiful car Forrest! Oh and HBD too

Thanx guys for the b'day wishes!.. Chugging along with the sell.. talked to some pretty well know guys and some not...but a few are very interested...one guy I talked to.. his father bought one like mine new in '72 (but not endura option, has the 455 h/ o). and still has it!. and he ( son) always wanted one for himself..it may take a few weeks for a sale maybe longer.. no rush...is kinda depressing the bidding is not higher at this point.. no worries as of yet.. I'm sure there are people that have not seen it yet..time will give us an answer!...just went for a short drive with a/c.on . top up ( next drive TOP DOWN!)..listening to Sean H. on the FM..It really is like driving a new (1972) car, there's only about 75 miles, if that on it since finished..God I really would like to go for a long "cruise" .., but can't risk a scratch or something..Damn....I love this car...well, I still have my "70 GTO"..(first car I ever did, first car I ever owned in 1975) ..That goes to my grave with me! thanx again!

Endura was a mandatory option when you selected the 455HO due to the fact that Ram Air was part of the package.

my BAD...I should have known that..talked to too many people last several days about 455 H/O's....he sent me pictures of his dads car ( convertible..very nice..painted twice since new)...It IS a 350!...it's the the son who wants the 455 H/O ( maybe mine?) for himself!....must be my older age..ya know..thanx Boss..

71 could get the Chrome Nose with 455-HO , just for conversation.

Most of the bidding usually takes place in the last 2 minutes on auctions of these upper end cars. Never can tell until its over .

Thanx Baron..Got a guy in Kuwait ( did I hear OIL WELLS?) that would like to know what I want for it.. said he cannot bid..sold a car to a guy in UK several years ago and another to a guy in England...wonder what the problem is for him??.. . his question and my reply is posted on the auction site..several very interested people..who knows?? It will be relisted again when over..

Something doesn’t add up as selling internationally happens all the time unfortunately. I’d let him figure it all out and see what happens with the others.

Kuwait guy's phone number +965 69693088? He texts me monthly asking "Last price, how much please?" about mine.

Well..I don't think I have ever been that disappointed in an auction..It's not over yet.. in 18 years or so cars always sold after the auction ended..I usually have a least one person look at the car "in person".. not this time..oh well..we'll chug along and pray for better interest in the near future.. Possibly some collectors/ potential buyers were not aware of the auction..This car is worth more than $50,000.00..funny thing is Haggarty insurance ( Heacock classic) has it insured it for 90,000.00 ...they agreed on the value..maybe if a live auction (Mecum,,etc..) shows up near me I'll take the car....Thanx for all the cheers!..Pontiacs are BEST!! and deserve more..

You are correct.

Did you pull it before it ended? When I clicked on the link you provided it stated that it was not longer available and said 'Here's something we though you might be interested in' and it displayed the auction o6f a 63 Tempest convertible. I've never seen this before. Don't be too disappointed in Ebay now days. Seems like it's mostly bottom feeders looking for a deal. Too many people have gotten burned on cars that were over described and there is no trust left in this world. As far as a Mecum or similar auction, the only way you will get close to real value there is to have it as a feature car in all their advertising for that auction. I sold my nice 65 GTO at Mecum in Kissimmee in January of 2017 and it got lost in the sea of other nice cars. 3000 is too many cars to compete with for a buyer. It sold for considerably more money at the Mecum auction in PA 6 months later by someone who bought it from the guy who bought it at the auction in Fla.

Hey Jerry.. nope.. let it end on it's own..how much time was left when you clicked on it?..well..I got a question for y'all.. what do you'all think it's worth?.. I'm going by the sale ( or no sale? $69,000.00) of the green lemans sport (not GT) link attached ....and the appraisal for 90,000 (insured for that) from Haggerty ( hancock classic).. not much else to go on..as far as similar cars that sold...My thoughts were at least $70,000... got a few messages from bidders what my price is..A while back I sold one of those 70 GTO 455 ram air conv., after auction was over a guy from Austria asked what I wanted..Said 72,000.00 ( I believe,) no haggle and it was done, that was SWEET!... The Wife is really naggin..DON"T SELL THAT CAR FOR LESS THAN 70,000..!!!:mad: She's hung up on it being insured for so much...can't get it thru her head..it will sell for what it is worth!?:confused2 Thanx Guys! Link: https://azure.barrett-jackson.com/Ev...ERTIBLE-125094

Forrest - that same green car (Rick Hendricks) bid to and/or sold at Kissemmee this year for I believe $89,000 but has since disapeared from their results page. It is due to be up again in a few weeks at Barrett Jackson in Connecticut. I would venture to guess yours is better restored and certainly rarer being the GT.

Mine has been listed on Cars On Line for over a year, here and other boards, has been in Hemmings and on e-Bay, is completely numbers matching like yours, wears every stitch of it's original body work, is unrestored with 1 repaint in the 90's of it's factory color of Lucerne Blue over Tuxedo, is a 4spd Sport with 35 factory options and at 75k is a no sale.

These are the Judge Convertibles of 1972, but nobody wants to pay up for them.

I feel like between 60-70k is a real fair trade value.
As in modest and still a safe value for a buyer.

Frame-Off , Round Port , Convertible , Brass Hat PMD pedigree , Matching #s
aka its worth more than that - but more would be a tight squeeze.

With that said, some of the final wording in description made it sound like you were looking for 100k or better. Could have hampered some hopes.

To me , the pictures mostly made it look more like Sierra Yellow or Mayfair Maze color zones.
Historically the least desirable / worst bidding / worst selling colors in modern times.
BrittanyBeige is more towards a muave sandstone brown-ish grey tone.
Just didn't feel the real color in the pics.

Will send a PM later tonight with some thoughts for consideration.