Facebook Schmacebook! Return to your roots!
 

If you are reading this topic, I am kind of preaching to the choir but we're sending my blog out to the entire membership Monday. There's a lot to absorb here. It may be a little bit long winded but I feel it is very important topic. I would like all your collective feedback.

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Here we are in the middle of 2018. 2018! Say that out loud to yourself. Two Thousand eighteen! For most of us growing up in the 50's, 60's and 70's and beyond, watching Sci-fi movies of the obliteration of the world in a variety of ways from an errant asteroid, to launching Nuclear weapons, to alien invasions, was normal. But in reality we're way past the time even real life prognosticators like Nostradamus and false Prophet Harold Camping thought we'd ever make it.
In contrast to all that doom and gloom, the world has experienced some incredible advancements especially in medicine and technology. Life expectancy is a lot longer. Who would have thought that there would be 2.5 billion 'personal computers' in everyone's pocket (smart phones). Electric and driverless cars are just around the corner from being the norm. So even if you are a cynic about the world today, at least you have to admit if we are going down, we’re going down with guns blazing!

But for all the apparent impressive technology, there are potential hidden traps. We're living longer, but look at all the quality of life financial health care issues living longer has created. We have the world at our fingertips but, look at the challenges it has presented in the way our young people interact with each other. There are plenty more examples, but I think these are two good examples.

Well, by now I may have lost you and that would be a shame because I'm just getting to my point! Alas, I do not have the answers for these monumental issues. However, I have clearly uncovered a piece of technology that is doing a real disservice to our Pontiac hobby. Our hobby is nose deep in one of those hidden traps I mentioned.

Facebook!

When you see that word it may conjure up visions of a 9 foot tall bear dancing to Pit Bull's song Fireball or maybe Walmart people or a hilarious photo caption. You might also think about what great therapy it is to have so many 'buds' supporting and pulling for you when you've hit bad times. And for these reasons and many more, we can thank Facebook.

So if FB is great for social and entertainment purposes, how on earth is FB hurting our hobby?
It is a poor way to store, organize and preserve information!

There are at least 100 disconnected Pontiac sites on FB. If I looked hard enough, there's probably a Linden Green 1967 GTO owners site! Once I found it, I'd be able to share good times with my 4 other Linden Green GTO owners from around the world! Oh, but wait..... 8 hours after a member took an hour to post an interesting story about his uncle at Pontiac being the guy that was in charge of selecting the car colors for 1967 Pontiacs, it's lost in a sea of posts never to be found again! And even if you could find it, it’s only being shared with a tiny part of those who would be very interested in seeing it.

FB is NOT the place to store and organize valuable information! By now, surely we've all noticed this? Collectively, as enthusiasts, we all have something to offer the hobby. We have experiences, knowledge, hunches, advice, pictures, drawings, stories and more. Imagine if you could put all of this in your own time capsule. Now take that capsule and add it to a landfill of thousands of other capsules just like it. Is anyone starting to get the picture? We're sharing valuable information, but we're throwing it in a landfill where nobody can come back and find it! I'm not going to sugar coat it. As an automotive enthusiast, using FB in this way is downright selfish and short-sighted. not to mention, extremely inefficient.

One could argue that, 'Well, I'll just post my information again the next time somebody needs it'. The last I checked, none of us are getting any younger any time soon. Are you telling me we all have so much free time in life that we're ok with going to dozens and dozens of FB locations to post valuable information? It sure sounds like we're living out our personal versions of a Pontiac Groundhog Day to me.

Since the invention of papyrus, in order to preserve history, man has spent millions of hours trying to properly store and organize information. FB comes along and in a couple of years that activity seems to have been pretty much been abandoned when it comes to preserving our Pontiac information!

Ok, so by now, I've either lost you completely and you are not reading this sentence or if you are still reading, maybe you are starting to get my drift. But what's the big deal? The big deal is that anything worth saving and preserving, demands gathering, organizing, and storing.

So what can we do? It's quite simple, the internet gave us an amazing way to share, organize and store information and ideas. As the internet evolved, forum communities with more and more sophisticated software emerged and flourished. In these communities, whether we noticed or not, a literal encyclopedia of knowledge was being gathered, organized, categorized and stored for all time. Interactions between consumer and manufacturer helped many new products to get developed. Most of this would never have happened if it weren't for these communities. We were BUILDING something really good. But if you really look closely at the current internet landscape, a huge majority of our communities have unknowingly been caught in the “FB trap”.

I'm not saying for all of us to abandon FB, but I never saw a successful Encyclopedia set that didn't have the current year's update. Our hobby grew because everyone came together. There is power in numbers. Having all that great knowledge get lost in a sea of endless instant gratification threads on endless FB sites is a tragedy.

It is time for all of us to collectively be more responsible and return to the places that helped make our hobby what it is today and to insure that all of it will be there in the future. Support your online Forum community!

The PY Online Forums- Bringing the Pontiac world together since 1991.

The PY Forums spans all the way back to 1991. Data has been categorized and organized since 1998. Literally millions of posts have been preserved forever. It may not be as fun as FB to use, but the entire community is fairly well organized by category and when it is not, the software has very powerful search options that can yield 20 years worth of very valuable information. And it's also pretty much all the same people you are seeing on FB anyway.

Also, within a year, expect a major announcement of a merging of the PY Forums with another very valuable Pontiac site to combine resources to be bigger and better than ever.

Come back, give back and make the Pontiac hobby better.

Chris

Fine with me. :) I never signed up for Facebook anyway.

Hell to the yea!!! What Chris said!!!

Edit: Matter of fact I came here today for electrical advice, knew the question had been asked before and rather than have someone re-hash, used the search engine.

Sure enough there it was, a very complete and extensive step by step explanation on how to replace the idiot lights with rally gauges by Peter Serio.

I don't know Peter personally but given the opportunity would be more than happy to thank and repay him for taking the time to help a fellow Pontiac family member.

Which in return answered my question, this is what Chris is talking about, a wealth of diverse information gathered by very knowledgeable people and collectively shared.

I am fairly new to this forum but can see at a glance from the past that, "there is strength in numbers", we can all share, help, learn and prosper from this forum.



Frank

I was thinking the very same thing about all the different Pontiac sites. I'm guilty, I'm signed up on several of those sites (but I can never remember which ones) and am constantly getting bombarded with posts where someone puts up a picture of his uncle's brother's wife's GTO, etc. It takes a lot of our time to figure out which posts are legitimate and which are not. I've met with more ignorance on those sites than I can remember. Now I've just decided to just not waste my time anymore. All my Pontiac time will be spent here.

I have never used FB.

Yes, I’m a dinosaur, so my daughter jokingly says.

I grew up in the 1950’s, 60’s and I wouldn’t trade it for any other time frame.

Muscle cars, Elvis, Beatles and Playboy just to name a few.

This PY site is Awesome! I learn from it all the time and I try to contribute whenever I can.

Someday I won’t be here and my cars and knowledge will move on.

But for now, let’s do it. Never know what tomorrow will bring.

Big Thanks for this wonderful site !!

Regards, Chris.

I never liked Facebook, also I have never seen so much Religion and Politics rammed up our butts in my life as you see on there.

PY and Ames have been the leaders in the Pontiac hobby for over 30 years, why go anywhere else but here for information and great people! I am a firm believer in supporting the companies that support our hobby.

phooey on FaceBook
the women and children can have all of it.

And please stop using links for photos and documents from 3rd servers.
Post Your Attachments straight to the Site when you make a post.

If you post them here, they will Always Be Here.
Even after you are gone.

5-10-20-maybe 30+ years from now , it will make a difference to future users.
Broken links are worthless , remember what P-Bucket did ?
They all will in one way or another.

We will be the old school real deal overlords of Pontiac to future gens.
Get used to it.
Leave them some good stuff. Not broken links.

Facebook has it's place. I like it for re-connecting to long lost friends, but not so much for communities. I prefer forums (like this) to share info.

I use both. It's true it is hard to find info on FB if you don't save it first. From time to time old saved threads I saved on here have disappeared.

Man Chris and others, I couldn't agree more. Too much technology to fast is a lot to handle much less learn and absorb. Facebook, not so much for me. Never understood why it's so important to tell the whole world how many sheets of TP it took to wipe your tush this morning and have it before the world forever.
Off subject a bit but was at a stop light on a busy street a few weeks ago and watched a gal walk across the street with her nose buried in her phone in her left hand. As she got to the curb, she stepped up and walked into a telephone pole with her right shoulder. Phone never left her left hand as she rubbed her right shoulder with it, still talking on her phone. She rotated her right shoulder and arm a couple of times, then proceded to turn left and walk into the corner of a bus shelter. Can't even commit suicide right.
Py forums need to be kept THE source to lookup and add to the Pontiac info already here.

No Facebook here either... actually probably slightly aint-facebook. Never been on it, don't want to be. I really appreciate this forum, probably the closest i'll ever be to social media. I caught what you said about merging with another forum Chris. I really appreciate what you've done here, but i really hope it doesn't get messed up in the merger either, as in diluted. We've got an awesome forum and community here.

I tried facebook for three or four months and then got off it wasn't for me. It won't go away through and there is nothing we can do about, and yes it does dilute this site some I suppose. I log onto this site every day and probably will until I pass on or it does. Best Pontiac enthusiast site bar none.

Facebook and Google want to rule the world
or at least the internet - at minimum.

Seems like every other click something prompts you to sign in with your Facebook or Gmail/Google account. Or link this and that to your Fbook or Google/Gmail.

I think Bob is right - even about the toilet paper useage.
They basically want to get in the middle of everything we do.
And they want to log it, track it, exploit it.

They can kiss my toilet paper.

I totally agree with Ccass. I will go even further and say I think facebook is a cancer. It was a neat thing in the beginning, and I can see how people have become addicted to it. When my immediate family gets together(3 daughters, 3 sons in law, and 8 grand kids 10 to 24 yrs old) No one pays much attention to anything except their smart phones. Last Xmas dinner, I finnally asked everyone to put them down until after dinner. The adults (red faced) apologized and put them down. The young ones did not until their Dads told them to. I still have a flip phone and I love it, but this year I will be getting a new smart phone. I will still use it to CALL people and not text them.
I will also bet that in the work place, because of people using them for PERSONAL reasons, productivity is down to close to 50%.

No Facebook here either although I am afraid I'll have to join as I launch a new endeavor - we'll see.

Chris you have been a valuable part of this hobby for a very long time & we all applaud you for that. I think there are very few people, maybe a handful, who could claim to have done more. Thank you!

Facebook ? I don't even carry a cell phone !


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I’m not a FB’er either and totally agree with you Chris. The message is received. The problem is the younger generation isn’t as into the forum side because they don’t know any better. The “Matrix” is swallowing us all up and only us a old fogies are resisting. How do we reach the next generation of hobby?

I’m also curious about the merge and the benefits.

Interesting. I used to run a forum on our car club's web site. I finally gave up. Lack of participation didn't make it worth the work of keeping it updated and secure. I never threw away the DB though. There was some good information in there. I'm not sure what to do with it to this day. Good luck on the merger. As you noted, social media doesn't archive a damned thing.

You asked for input..... To keep a format and website alive into the future, look at what is fine for the older generations and look at what is appealing to the younger generations also. They inherit this hobby, us old dogs are old guard :)

I agree the format and archive ability and sectionalized areas on PY are king. Tidy and navigate well.

What does facebook have that appeals? For myself:

A lessor level of anonymous. Most people are who they say and visible. I believe it helps with forthright and posting issues a bit. It is nice seeing real people not handles.

Ability to have big pics in posts. And videos with play button, and preview screen.

Link and share ease of stuff.

Networking capability and business page stuff. People seeing my post can see I have a business page and click boom to that site, so it is a business exposure benefit.

The international and even in US crossing more social spectrums, of people that post. I see Firebird owners from all over world posting on FB bird site and that is way cool. I know we have international here, but it seems nowhere near the scope.

What I don't like is the transitory "for the moment" nature of FB. A big scrolling screen where yesterday fades quick. It is more a "social" aspect of hobby than real reference, expert stuff as here. Although I see some same people and some high level knowledge mixed in the huge rookie pool.

You can incorporate some from with worlds. Some web forums allow a posting with FB log in. Incorporate some feature that people like in FB. People are expecting this stuff more and more. Make an anti FB stand and that is ignoring that most people utilize it these days, for business and reference and information look up, in conjunction with Google. I thought FB was silly, was forced into it for business reasons, people asking / expecting it. Now that I am on it I see cool features, also negative aspects. Combine some of two formats (old school website and FB interactive style) and you have a winner, IMO.

Not another forum. Another very complimentary website. Other than future updates and some normal house keeping, the PY Forums will largely function as it always has. There will just be more information and additional contributors at your disposal. Trust me, you will like the addition.

Great to hear. Looking forward to it. Just didn't want to see anything taken away from this forum... it is the by far the best around. The information and documentation here is invaluable. A lot of the most knowledgeable people in the Pontiac world are or were here, and I wouldn't want to see it go away or be diluted in any way shape or form. I know this forum was your baby from the start Chris, and appreciate it greatly. Sounds like it's going to be the same, only better.

I never had interest in facebook or twitter;
I only signed up to FB at the urging of my uncle - and even then after i signed up, I realized that it was not what he painted it as (he wanted my to somehow get in touch with his niece on his wife's side; think dating site)...

I stuck around...

It is kinda nice to have a degree of interaction... but the interaction is only puddle deep.

I agree whole heartedly that forums are a superior format for sharing information ect - to the point that I am in charge of a site, and in spite of currently having a google block (because of an intermitant redirect which came after the site was hacked a couple times) which has not been fixed, I continue to pay hosting fees...

right now, I find that FB is nice to see:
- what family/friends are up to
- what is happening with local clubs ect
- great for local classifieds (cars or parts)
- great for niche classifieds (eg: Second Gen Graveyard)
- great for niche hobbies (eg: vintage video game groups)

But it has a negative, almost addicting side, where, if you're not aware of it, you feel compelled to see what has happened since you last logged on...

I have been taking a conscious move to step back from FB - it sure helps that the FB/messenger apps require my phones OS to update - which I refuse to do...

These observations about the merits of Fb are spot on. We are currently looking into ways to take advantage of some of the convenient and attractive features of FB.

Remember guys, I never said that I wanted you to boycott FB. It has it's place. My appeal is to have everyone take a step back and think.

Well, I don’t get out as often as I once did. I can touch base with former co-workers, family and friends, who want to discuss other things besides cars.


Also I found my dream Bandit TA on FB. ;)


To each his or her own!

It’s a fair point. I do try to google my automotive issues before I come and beg for help with a new thread. I’m often referred to old posts. Only issue being important photos and dead in my cases. So maybe that’s something for our PY hosts and other message boards to consider. If we are trying to preserve, we need to preserve all the content, not just the text.

That said I’m active on both. There is faaaar more misinformation on the FB groups. A lot more people who don’t even have a car, which shouldn’t be the bar for entry, but crap info is more likely to come from someone who isn’t an owner.

Facebook marketplace is taking over craigslist in many areas. Which I like. It’s harder to make troll accounts I think and you can direct message the person you are trying to buy from.

I agree and like the Market Place too!

All good reasons to participate on FB! :)

I am a member of a few Pontiac groups on Facebook.. but they are pretty
lightweight.. ( as is most of FB anyway)

If I am looking for answers to technical questions or how-to type things..
I definitely start here on the Ames ( ex-PY) forums.. the boards here
allow for more in-depth talk about issues, clearances, things to look out for..etc..

The biggest benefit of the FB forums is a bigger pool of users to find someone
that might have that unusual part I might need for one of my cars.. ( just got
a mast antenna and base for my 66 Ventura for example)

There are also people on there who obviously dont know crap about pontiacs
specifically and it can be nice to nip some idiocy in the bud before it gets nuts.

I have referred people to this site for more reading.. dont know if they ever took it up..

Thanks again for the knowledge here.. its still one of the most valuable Poncho sites..

John

Not to jack my own thread but...….

Just for the record, it's always been and still is the 'PY Online Forums' We still own, manage and run the forums. :)

As part of our merger agreement, Ames has been the title sponsor since Performance Years and Ames merged a little over 3 years ago.

if a new merger takes place , can you also change the URL back to Performance Years ?

Or URL of just PY.com

Almost everyone still calls/refers to it as PY , or some now PY / Ames

No one has adjusted to maxperformance or uses that moniker.
Its basically an unknown entity amongst the hobby.
PerformanceYears Forum was well known and a long living legend in most circles.

When giving suggestion to others to check it or out , or referencing something about a topic on another site - back to this site .... i don't think folks are finding it.
Or not finding it easy enough.

Have had some say to me in recent years what a shame the PY site went down. lol

Oops ... Sorry.. should have known I guess because I had wondered why
the name was never changed to Ames forums..

Anyway.. still great work and keep it up..

John

As it's been said, they both have their place. More detailed info here on Pontiac, more knowledge here.
FB has more pics, more of what's happening right now, more for sale.

I check in with FB. I spend an hour or so here.

Yep, all true. I said from the beginning that FB, is a cheezy, halfassed webpage that could be so much more, but the designers must be lazy. That said, it's easier to sit in an armchair and browse conversation rather than sit at a desk. Forums just don't come through that well on cel phones. Funny thing is some of the more active Pontiac people I've seen on FB groups have never even been on here..

I was happy to read that you try to keep all of the member's posts whenever possible. I was on the "Pictures site" today (for the first time (DOH), and saw a ton of pictures of member's Pontiacs and other info like Engine Pictures and Parts Pictures.
I will have to spend a bunch more time over there from now on. Thanks Chris C.

Tom V.

Smart man!

I can think of one...

I'm on FB because that's how I keep track of old high school/work friends and family members. I'm on ONE FB Pontiac site(same one as Mongo) but spend far more time here. Chris, thanks for keeping this the premier site for Pontiac performance.

I have a couple friends that live on the 62 pontiac and 63 pontiac FB pages.I dont do FB,twitter or any of them.Tom

... "never seen so much Religion and Politics rammed up our butts in my life as you see on there"

This is why I bailed on Facebook...coming up on 1 year now. Too much hate, lies, disinformation, name-calling, slandering, insults, etc. What was briefly fun turned into a garbage bin for me, so I quit.

Still love PY after all these years!

Harvey

Not a facebook user either. I will poke around with my wife's page now and again. I am a Pontiac guy, Pontiac info is here. So are many very knowledgeable people. This works great for my needs and interests. Thank you for the forum.

X2, lol, have in the past quickly scanned a few FB Pontiac sites on wife's FB when we were roadtripping & wife was driving. Just don't have time for the nonsense that FB brings. Also do my best not to use Google. Longtime held belief here is Google & Facebook are both beyond evil. Thank You Chris for continuing to provide the best Pontiac site on the Net!

Yeah I “unfollow” lots of people. I don’t mind people speaking their mind now and again but if daily all you post is negativity in whatever form, even good friends get unfollowed. That and new mothers. One baby picture? Okay. But they never stop at one lol.

But the Pontiac Midwest Group is cool. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen several members from here on there. I like Marketplace more and more.

I have a Facebook account, but rarely use it.
People talk on this site. Facebook is flash and blurbs. Maybe both have their merits, but when I need advice, I'll take it in long form.
Funny thing is, both of my kids (actually 23 and 25), told me just recently that they don't do Facebook anymore. My son said it's boring and my daughter said it's greasy.

yes..facebook is for old folks is what the kids think..its jumped the shark for them

Another thing that turned me off from Facebook is all the advertising. It seemed that half of my feed was ads. If I looked at something on eBay, it would appear in my feed over an over again as if they were forcing me to buy it.

I wouldn't use FB, or the others, if they paid me to. It's trouble with a big T just waiting to happen.

Don't keep us in suspense, what's this merge? Could it be The Ultimate GTO website? I heard it's having a bit of a problem.

Ditto. My phones are screwed to the walls of the garage and barn... and have ROTARY DIALS.:rolleyes:

FB is absolutely great for this hobby, but like any other thing in life, it has it's correct place in the tool box.

I'm with all of these folks also. My apologies for not using PY as much as I used to, but my building (?), fabricating (?), etc. have been tapering off due to age (mine).

Your points are well taken, Chris. If this hobby is to continue, we all need to add our expertise(s) in one place. Maybe you Facebook users could politely explain to FB folks who seem to have an interest in our "addiction." After all, this forum, IMHO, has some of the top expertise in Pontiacs of any place on the web.

As an added shot at FB and other social media sites/apps ... I heard it said that users of such sites are no longer "customers", they are now the "product." FWIW. I don't anticipate becoming a "product" of PY.

I look forward to your new endeavor, Chris.

Ogre