Oil and additives
 

So do you guys use fuel boosters in your gas? And what oil is everyone using. I always use premium gas in my bird, and every other month use a booster.

When I use any mechanic in a bottle its only Lucas products. The only fuel additive I use is Lucas fuel treatment. I run C-12 so I never use an octane booster. Oil is usually Mobil 1

Just a note on octane fuel additives. Many of the popular fuel additives will turn your spark plugs a rusty orange color. When you pull them the first thing your think is that you're getting water in the combustion chambers. Doesn't seem to hurt anything other than scare you to death the first time you see it.

I've always been a little leary of additives. I'm sure there are some good ones, but I've always avoided them in my high performance stuff. I may have to change my tune now with fuel injectors. I use Dieselkleen in my diesel fuel, but sparingly. Probably 3 or 4 times a year. I've been using Rotella in everything for a while, but have used and like Mobil 1.

I use VR-1 in all of my older cars and Mobil 1 in anything newer.

I had heard great things about seafom.... it worked too good. I used it in our 79 TA and the car ran like crap for months. I can only assume it did a good job of breaking up any corrosion in the tank. New carb got trash in it constantly. Filter got clogged up within miles. I eventually had to replace the tank, sending unit and lines.

The car ran great for years before this and no problems after replacing the tank/lines so pretty sure that’s what it was

I use Joe Gibbs hot rod oil in my 1971 455HO. I used his break-in oil for the first 500 miles after the rebuild. For fuel, I'm just using Chevron supreme gas with no additives.

brad penn green oil in all my old cars

Flat tapped cam engine I use 10-30 dyno oil with a 1/2 bottle of GM EOS.Tom

X2 Brad Penn 10W-40.

Never was a big snake oil guy, but Lucas fuel treatment has proved to actually work. I had put a bottle in a 5 gallon container of gas and forgot about it for 3 months. When I found it I figured I had 5 gallons of paint thinner. Nope! The gas still smelled good and hadn't discolored. I do use full syn. in my DD's and VR1 in my older engines.

All things "mechanic in a bottle" are snake oil. No exceptions. Use the lowest octane fuel that your car requires, use good oil and a good filter. That's it.

The marketing of fuels as "regular" and "premium" was absolutely genius, as they have the majority of the public totally fooled into thinking higher octane fuel is somehow better for their car. It isn't. Use the lowest octane fuel that your car requires. Period. No boosters, no additives, no nothing. Unless you enjoy spending money for the sake of spending money, in which case why not donate it to charity instead? Then it might actually do some good.

Castrol GTX full synthetic, no additives.



Frank

Castro’s GTX is the oil we use, and the gas additive I use is STP octane booster. The 400 motor seems to like it, never had any unusual color change to my plugs.

Avoid any fuel with Ethanol. It's hard to do in most areas now.

Use Amsoil in my car and truck, Mobil 1 in the wife’s cars. As for additives, the only one I’ve used is MMO.

Not hard to find at all - https://www.pure-gas.org/

Valvoline VR1 + STP oil treatment for some extra ZDDP.

Pump 91, sometimes cut with 110 or Race Gas additive when I'm going to drive the car hard.

Pontiac 350 "slightly" modified 10.38:1 measured - 93 octane, 10W40 Ford oil
Ford 390 "slightly" modified 10.22:1 measured - 89 octane (unless pulling the 16' trailer, then 93), 10W40 Ford oil
Ford turbo 2.3, factory original except SVO cam - 93 octane, 10W40 Ford oil

The only "miracle in a can" I have ever found is Rain-X, and I use it on all my vehicles.

25 years ago, when I just HAD to have something that started every day, I used Mobil 1 in the Ford in the winter. Now, I just push snow with the John Deere, and wait for the temperature to warm up to start anything else.

Jon.

Jon, as a carb person, what do you think of Lucas fuel treatment? I have had great success with it. I also use Lucas ethanol treatment.

OK - the key here is you asked what I think.

Caviat - I am NOT a chemist, and this is not my field, so the opinion is personal, and NOT professional.

I have tried (because customers have asked me to) every fuel treatment O'Reilleys carry, including Lucas, in my own vehicles.

So far, the ONLY difference I can see in using or not using ANY of the fuel treatments, is the transferal of funds from my account to the account of O'Reilleys. They neither hurt, nor help.

The only fuel treatment I have used recently was Sta-Bil, in my Troy-Bilt until the warranty expired. Troy-Bilt stated they would not honor the warranty unless Sta-Bil was used. My guess is there is some hands under the table.

I have had MUCH worse results with oil treatments.

Over the years, we GENERALLY purchase used vehicles. We lost 3 engines that had been treated before we got them - 1 to STP, 2 to Slick-50. Not used to losing engines. We expect to get a minimum of 200k miles on any of them. Change oil AND filter at 2500 miles.

Again, the above is a personal opinion, based on personal experience, NOT a professional opinion.

Jon.

We have a similar thing going on with our mercury mariner we bought used from Car Sense. If we don’t use Quacker State oil, they won’t honor the warrantee. That oil is getting harder to find.

[QUOTE=1965gp;5925648]I use VR-1 in all of my older cars and Mobil 1 in anything newer.


X2 but do use Lucas oil products too

X3 for Brad Penn:2cents:

Rotella diesel spec oil in my old flat tappet cars, and Octane Supreme 130 TEL in my '65 GTO due to its 11:1 CR with iron heads. Brad Penn is excellent stuff, as well.

+1 on the Lucas.....I buy it by the gallon...run it in everything I own....new and old. Can squeak an extra 1.5-2.0 mpg on a trip.Plus it lubes up that fuel pump in the tank.....and keep injectors clean.

I use Castrol GTX regular oil and add a bottle of ZDDP for the flat tappet cam. My car will ping on 93 octane . When 94 was available it would stop pinging with the timing backed off a little. I have tried every octane booster out there with NO success. No harm either.
I add 1 gal. of Sunoco 112 to 3 gals of 93 Sunoco ,and the car runs good without pinging.

I only use Valvoline 20w-50 with a can of Restore additive in my GTO. And only Valvoline in any of the other engines I have. At least I know there's no sludge in any of them.

I'll add a 5 gallon can of 93 oct VR1 to pump gas in the GTO. Tho not for every tank of pump gas. Or 100LL if available.

I use Valvoline 10W-30 in the 68 GTO, the 70 Mach1 and the 84 F150 with a can of STP for each. The 2011 F150 gets Pennzoil 5W-30 Synthetic, or synthetic blend.


Only fuel additive is STP injector cleaner once a year.

I use 10-30 Valvoline race Oil in my 67 GTO. A friend who runs big block Chevelles told me about a product he uses in them made by Rislone, called Nano Prime so I put a bottle in my GTO. The car runs quieter and smoother than it ever has. You only add it once a year.

Different countries I know but for my 2 cents, but on the recommendation of my engine builder, I have ONLY used 10w-30w Diesel in my Pontiac since I've had it. Done 40 thousand miles on the rebuilt engine and its smooth and as quiet as the first start. Plenty of zinc in diesel oil to cushion any cam wear.

We can buy 91, 95 or 98 RON fuel here. I use 98 in the Pontiac and have never used any form of additives in the oils or fuel.

Works for me.

I don't understand why anyone uses diesel oil on their gas engines. It's for diesel engines not gas. I used it at one time in my 79 Formula and it ruined the engine bearings. That's one of the reasons I only use Valvoline. You might think your doing your engine a big favor but it the long run you aren't. And I've heard that from a number of retailers and those that have used it.

Sorry for the rant but I hojnestly found out the hard way. :focus:

There is no way running diesel oil would ruin engine bearings. Fact is, most high end engine builders use a diesel oil, like Rotella, for break-in oil.

The engine builders around here won't touch it. You tell them that and they laugh you right out the door. I'll tell one of the best [now retired] engine builders here and he'd throw me out the door or die laughing.

Hmmm.... Oddy, Musi, Shafiroff, Herbert all no names. :rolleyes:

Agreed
 

I put a long block in a customers 81 Chevy 4x4 SBC several years ago and all he runs is 15W40 Delo. The engine sounds good and the OP is great. One of my friends runs it in all his older HFT cars, no issues.

All that sounds good to the totally uninformed who are unfamiliar with engine and fluid bearing design, but is of course totally false. Diesel oil did not ruin your bearings, nor has it ruined anyone else's.

Diesel engine bearings are no different than gasoline engine bearings, and oil intended for diesel engines is not fundamentally different than oil intended for gasoline engines. There are additive packages that differ somewhat, but they are absolutely interchangeable with no risk of damage. Now, using a high-zinc diesel oil in a modern car with a catalytic converters and sensitive O2 sensors may cause problems with those parts, but it will do no harm whatsoever to the engine itself.

Now, diesel oil is designed for the much harsher environment of a diesel crankcase, and is thus more robust. It also has to deal with more soot contamination and diesel fuel dilution than a gasoline engine oil. The additives and properties that result are beneficial in gasoline engines as well. Conventional diesel oils are not designed for prolonged high RPM, nor prolonged high temperature use, so something like Rotella T would not be suitable in any serious race engine that sees serious track time, but it is absolutely acceptable and in many ways better for everyday road usage.

Your anecdotal story of ruined bearings obviously neglects to mention some other serious factor that was the primary reason for your bearing failures, because the oil wasn't it. So long as you were using the proper viscosity oil of course, and changing it at proper intervals.

My own anecdotal evidence includes using Shell Rotella T 15-W40 extensively in numerous old carbureted pushrod engines over the years, including nearly 50k miles on the already high mileage 455 in my '71. I used nothing but Rotella T in that engine from the moment I acquired it with 193k on the clock. When I tore that engine down at 241k miles, it was still a good runner, had good oil pressure, bearings looked perfectly fine, and I have no doubt it would have continued to run for many tens of thousands more miles. Same goes for numerous other pushrod engines that I have used it in and have put tens of thousands of miles on. Never had any sign of trouble from any of them.

But of course, just like so many things in life, people love to fall back on their one-time singular piece of anecdotal evidence, having done no additional research on the subject, and present it as a definitive argument. Anyone that understands fluid bearing design and has some knowledge of automotive engine oils would never make such a foolish claim that "diesel oil ruined their bearings the one time I used it", because that is of course absurd.

So there, there's a counter-rant. I've been fighting the ridiculous myths about oil for years, but they persist because people love sticking to their anecdotes and blaming someone else, because it's easier than accepting reality sometimes.

I’ve found that engine builders are some of the biggest purveyors of “ oil brand such & such ruins this , sludges that “ folklore . Most diesel oil is classified HD and suitable for gas . Any modern , name brand oil is high quality and more than capable of profecting anything most of us drive . If your machinery requires more zddp - buy according , no need for additives .

What do you consider prolong high RPM? On a long trip (3-5 hours) at 65 to 70 mph, my engine is at 3200 RPMs.

I have heard this several times before and I am in agreement, but a lot of people seem to agree that the "lead substitute" is necessary if you are running an old engine that hasn't been upgraded with the hardened valve seats. What are your thoughts on this?

Wow! I had no idea just how many different fluids are out there, makes sense though, so many engine combos out there too.

About 25 years ago when I was building my first Pontiac engine I contacted Ken Crocie at H-O Racing numerous times when he offered a tech question phone line for his customers.

During one of our conversations I asked him which brand of oil he recommended.

His answer was "on sale".

Buying whichever brand was on sale at a discount was his advice. Ken didn't have a preferred oil brand to recommend. For many years I was using Havoline 10w-30 in my daily driver 455, with a coupon I was paying $0.39 a quart for it. The inside of the engine always looked clean and I never had any oiling related issues.

Personally I've used numerous different brands of oil including diesel oils and all were more than satisfactory.

You can use the cheapest, recycled, no-name oil and it will work fine! The secret is that you have to run around the car backwards three times before you pour it in!

Most oils advertise a full warranty against an "oil related failure" ... my guess is not one oil company since the dinosaurs were alive has had to pay out a claim.

Only engines I've ever seen that NEEDED a special oil, were engines that were in a state of tune or modification that far exceeded the original design parameters of a stock engine.

As far as flat tappets go ... if you had old school US made cam core and old school US made lifters ... you could probably use any oil made and still be fine. Maybe it wouldn't go 150,000 miles, but it wouldn't wipe a lobe at 5,000 miles.

I had some loud lifter noise on my 455 swapped into my 65 F250. Marvel Mystery Oil. Fixed it. I have used every brand of Oil From RPM Delo., Havoline. Q State ,McMillan,Sears, Wards,Pennzoil,Wolfs Head, Cam2, and 15 cent re refined oil back i n the 60's. I read one time that the government is the biggest single procurer of oil so all oils must pass their specs to be able to sell to it.

Exactly like oil filters. Yet the scaremongers will claim this and claim that about Fram filters. LOL!

To be fair, in the interest of an honest debate, this would be more due to the difficulty in proving that any failure was the fault of the oil itself, rather than a mechanical fault within the engine, or abuse, etc.. the cost to investigate and prove that would be far greater than most people will want to pay in the hope that maybe they'll get reimbursed later by the oil company. Most people know that's only just going to cost them more money and time in the end, as the oil company will of course fight any claim, with much more legal might than most people can compete with.

That's fairly high for a diesel engine, but I wouldn't consider that high RPM. You can't ignore the context of my post, which was referencing race usage vs. street usage when talking about prolonged high RPM usage. 3200 RPM at a steady, low throttle cruise is not hard on an engine. Routinely giving it full throttle to redline is much, much harder on it, and diesel oil would not be approriate for that kind of abuse.

My experience is that it is totally unnecessary. I've run numerous non-hardened seat engines for many miles on modern fuels with no additives, and have disassembled many more, and have seen no conslusive evidence that there is anything to worry about on a street engine. I think it may be more of an issue on race engines, maybe on higher compression engines or engines that are regularly driven hard, but on my street engines with lots of miles I haven't seen it be an issue. Again, my '71 455 with 241k, never used any additives, and all but one of my valve seats looked pretty decent still. The one exhaust seat that was bad was on a cylinder that was running a little low on compression due to tired rings, and that cylinder was burning a good bit of oil. I suspect that contributed to the exhaust seat pitting, as the others all looked good.

I've taken apart a bunch of virgin, untouched engines that showed no sign of excessive valve seat wear either, despite running tens of thousands of miles on modern fuels. I think it's much ado about nothing, to be honest. I've seen too many engines run too many miles and have too little wear to think there's anything to it.

Yep. And how many of us have run a quart of Marvel or ATF mixed in with our oil to try to free up sticky lifters? How many of us have used a wide spectrum of viscosity oils in our engines to counteract excessive oil burning, try to bump up oil pressure on tired engines, and maybe even just because that's all we had left in the garage? How many of us have had old tired engines where the oil was heavily diluted with fuel due to blowby or excessive rich running, where the oil was broken down or old and thick or full of carbon, etc etc., and all these engines survived just fine? The idea that an oil of the recommended viscosity but with a slightly different additive package can destroy bearings quickly is just absurd.

Thank you for your reply and was not ignoring the context of your post. I was mainly asking your opinion if you thought a steady 3200 RPM was considered too high for the diesel oil on a street driven classic. I have been using the ZR1 Vavoline 20W-50 in my street driven classics, wasnt sure if I should switch over to diesel oil or not.