cut and buff? Decent elcheapo paintjob?
 

Can't find a good answer online. What is "cut and buff" on a new paintjob? Is it really necessary for a driver? This is a street/strip beater, not a show car. Not even a wowza driver. I need a pretty color other than primer/surfacer. I've got the car in primer. Needs panel alignment and block sanding, which I'll do.

My budget for a BC/CC paint job is $3500 max, not a cent more out the door. Using $100/gallon Kirker. Me doing all reassembly. How do I find somebody willing to spray the car with paint I provide or specify? I just need somebody with a booth that can wave a gun.

Should I just spray it myself outside and hope for the best?

I'm in the same boat as you, doing all the work myself. For me its the first time. I plan on getting one of those cheap portable garages for outside. On one end i'll build a frame with a bunch of furnace filters and then other side a couple box fans sealing the entire thing.. All said and done it would cost maybe $200 for the entire setup. Easy cheap booth.

Can't answer all your questions but as far as what it is... A base coat-clear coat job consist of a layer of color, which has little shine to it, coated with a clear coat. That's where the shine comes in..The clear coat usually comes out of the gun with just a little 'orange peel' or 'bumpiness' to it.
Cut and buff is when the painter sands that clear coat until it's dead flat. That's the 'cut'. Not only is it 'flat' as far as the shine is concerned but the actual surface is flat and that's the purpose. They can tell that it's ready to buff when there is no more shine showing. That is, any low spots will still show shine.
Once it's all sanded totally flat, they use a buffing compound to bring the shine back. That's the 'buff'. At that point, the surface should be like glass. Flat and smooth to the eye and to the touch.
Do you really need it? No. Not if you don't care if you can see a little orange peel here and there. You can many times see a little orange peel in factory paint jobs since no one 'cuts and buffs' in the factory. It depends on the skill of the painter how much will be there before it's cut and buffed.

Find someone that does painting on the side. Most shops are not going to want to touch a job where you do prep and provide the paint because they don’t want to worry about warranty issues and their reputation.

Providing cheap low quality Kirker paint to a shop is not a recipe for success. Let them paint it with materials they are used to spraying. I tell folks that want to provide materials that I am not interested in their job.

The notion that all a painter does is provide a booth and wave a gun is not going to get you very far either. Good luck with all that... :D

Don

"Cheap" paint does not really matter if you know what you are doing. Cut and Buff is the modern term for wet sanding and rubbing out. My friends say that I am good at putting lipstick on a pig. I have been known for taking some of the crappiest finishes out there and, as they say on Ass Monkey Garage, make it look like a diamond in a goat's ass. But you really need to know exactly what you are doing and as much of what you are dealing with as possible. Nothing is worse than dealing with a finish that someone else laid out or a factory finish. Reason being is that you have no clue how much material was laid out and to achieve that ultimate finish you will be removing some, or a lot, of that material. Knowing how much to remove is something I personally cannot explain. For me its like a sixth sense. But every once in a great while even I have F'd up and burned through. It can happen, especially when you are starting with a bad finish and/or trying to get that ultimate shine. Hopefully I gave a little insight.

When it comes to paint everything has to be compatible(Primer to sealer, sealer to paint, paint to clear). Most place only deal with one brand and have learned all the tricks to dealing with that brand.

If you willing to do all the work but except wave the gun, then why not just turn your garage into a paint booth and try it yourself? There should be plenty of first time paint article out there. I know I have read several of them.

I've done all the prep work with Kirker epoxy and primer/surfacer. I can't justify $500-1000+ gallons of paint and 40 hours of labor on a car that's built out of bondo, fiberglass mat and welding rod. Car's not worth it.

I'd really like to go with Kirker's bright orange metallic but I've never shot metallic before. So that's why I'd like an experienced painter, to prevent mottling of the metallic and other weird issues. I'd also like some subtle blue metallic flames on the GTO hood scoop, and I have no idea how to do that. I don't know about midcoats, sealers, etc. I need some guidance and some experience and I'm willing to pay for it. Just not 8 or 10 grand.

http://dadscustoms.com/lvb-11125-bri...at-gallon.html

You do realize that right there is going to cost you good money. A car's condition and/or quality has no bearing on the paintwork. Custom paintwork costs money and an "experienced" painter does not lay out paint any different on a cockroach than he would a 2019 vehicle.

Haha thats a good point. But a lot of money is in the materials and the prep work, yes?? If I use less expensive materials and do as much of the prep work as I can, it should cost less right? This car was painted with rattle cans, poorly. I found golf balls and coke bottles embedded in the trunk bondo.
Anything is going to be an improvement.

Are you saying that any decent painter isn't willing to do a budget scratch and shoot with BC/CC? Forget any flames or anything. It's always got to be $18K showcar? How much time is involved in scuffing the sealer, resealing and then doing BC/CC with no cut and buff? 20 hours? At $100 hour that should be 2 grand labor, right?

Maaco.

A friend of mine got a Macao paint job on his driver and it looks pretty good. 200 to 400 labor is what I have read.

Maaco has four paint packages to choose from, including Basic (1 year warranty), Preferred (3 year warranty), Premium (5 year warranty) and Platinum (5 year warranty). The different packages are designed to meet the needs of any customer's financial situation, but each package has a different durability and appearance grade. This means that a Basic tier paint job will not look nearly as good and will not last nearly as long as a Premium tier paint job. If you wish to change the color of your car, there is an additional cost.

I too would suggest MAACO. However, I would check around with the franchises in your area. Their guys are painting cars everyday and should know their way around a spray gun pretty good. You can select the level of finish that suits your needs. I almost had them paint my 77 for a pretty decent price. I talked to the owner at length and his shop did 'special project cars' as well as the weekly specials. I talked to 3 different maaco shops in my area and only one was receptive to my needs.
If you have the equipment and dont really car about the quality you may as well paint it yourself. As pop always said "you're not going to learn any younger".

Last time I checked, Maaco didn't do "flames".

Maaco
 

Our local Maaco shop employs an exceptional painter that previously worked for a high-end shop. Like some painters, he's a little eccentric and Maaco was willing to accommodate his quirks and schedule. Neeless to say, our local Maaco turns out great work at a great value.

So he can take the hood to someone who does flames. Should be affordable with the $3000.05 he saved by going to Maaco.

Not a Pontiac but my Dodge Charger that I attached a picture of was sprayed with Summit Racing single stage urethane, which I believe is Kirker paint. I also used Summit Racing primers on the car when I was doing body work. I would estimate that I have somewhere around $600 to $800 invested on the paint/primers/thinners. I just can't afford a $10,000 paint job.

Summit's paint is re-labeled Dupli-Color which is Sherwin-Williams.

That is the first thing that came to my mind when I read this!

As far as I know Summit paint is made by Kirker....

Don

That's a cool car.

Internet wive's tale.

Hi guys this is my 4k paint job from a body shop guy doing work on the side. He did the finish body work and block sand bc/cc and cut and buff. I paid for materials and rented a booth for him to spray from another local shop. Ask around guys are looking to make extra cash.

Forgot to mention we used Diamont RM and SPI universal clear coat which the painter had never used. He liked the CC so much he said he will be using it on his other jobs customer permitting.

You have to be very careful when you do this. Just because someone does it for a living or does it on the side doesn't mean they know what they are doing. The guy that did my McLaren GP claimed to have 30 years experience. When he was done, I took it to a guy that really did know what he was doing and had it re-done. I told that clown right out, just because you've been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean you know what the fuk you're doing!

Well at this point you haven’t offered any proof of your assertion so I’m going to say your position is an internet wive’s tale.... :blabla:

Don

And you?

I buy through the Summit Pro system as well as know people at the Ohio location. I do not know how to post Brad Kemp but he is the one who told me first hand several years ago. I will be waiting for your "proof". :rolleyes:

My next door neighbor’s second cousin twice removed knows a guy who knows a guy who works cleaning the floors at Summit in Arlington Texas.... :pound:

Don

Cut n buff
 

Chief I get what you're saying. I think if you do your due diligence you can get someone that you are comfortable with. Looking at their prior work would be highly recommended. Trust me my first go around didn't work out well. But I learned my lesson quick.

Iam going to get another beer....I’ll be right back..

Well that's just it. I was referred to this guy. Never seen any of his work prior but the guy that referred me had work done by him. Just goes to show, some people see "shine" and figures it looks like a million bucks. :rolleyes:

Without going into extended detail, did you ever see anyone try to feather paint delam? Then burry it with primer and smooth it out with a DA?. Those were just 2 of the dozens of issues.

From what I have read you're both right. The single stage products are Kirker and the BC/CC is the shrink and wrinkle; er, I mean Sherwin-williams.

Never looked in to it but ever look in to getting in wrapped.

It's more than one coat of base.... your money should go into a good clear, restoration shops base paint covers very well.... you want to lay your first coat of clear, just like your last. Coat,.less orange peel, the easier it will be to cut..

Personally, I would never paint a car that someone else has done the body work, primer, and surfacer on proclaiming it to be "paint ready" and take it for granted that it is, indeed, ready for paint. That is a sure-fire recipe for disaster.

My last job was on a '66 Corvair convertible that the owner had done extensive body work on. He tried every body shop within a 200-mile radius to find someone to finish the job, and nobody would touch it. All they are interested in is quick in-and-out insurance work. We happened to meet at a local cruise-in and worked out a deal to follow the recipe described below. Although he did a decent job at body prep, I still spent 100+ hours getting it "just right".

The first thing to do would be to sand it and prep it for another coat or two of sandable primer compatible with the color coats to be applied.

Next step is guide-coat and block-sand every square inch until it is perfect. If more sandable primer is required then rinse-repeat.

Only then would I consider "waving a paint gun around", and it would only be with a high-quality paint such as PPG Concept or the equivalent. Why? Cheap paint is just that, cheap paint. When it starts to deteriorate due to heat, cold, and UV exposure, folks will only see a crappy looking result. I can't speak for everyone, but I do have a reputation to uphold.

Bottom line: MAACO for the OP

I used Macco for a paint job. I gave the painter a $100.00 tip up front and asked if there is anything he could do to make it as nice as possible. It looked OK when it came out of the booth but had some dirt in the paint. He said "I'm sorry about the dirt but He laid extra coats of clear on it. I took it home, wet sanded and buffed it, and it looks great.

One word MAACO. That’s what I am doing. I am having final body prep, base clear with four layers of clear, three different colors if you count the different glosses used in the interior of the car and reassembly for 6500

I got the maaco paint job back in 2003 and it has held up well. $1400 with a final cut and buff.

All the flaws are of my making, amateur body work by me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d43a857ad4.jpg

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I'll probably go that route if I don't paint it myself ... I'm just looking for OEM quality.

If you want OEM quality then you want nitrocellulose lacquer. And before anybody says it, yes, you can still buy it.

Nice to see a "non-converted" LeMans. Looks good with the TT's too.

Nice car! Paint looks great to me after 15 years. Your body work and prep must have been better than you give yourself credit for.

Mine is a 68, I thought by then they were using acrylic lacquer.

But I'm not talking materials, I mean quality of finish, so a half ass BC/CC compared to a half ass whatever the factory used in 68 :)

Thanks, the car was purchased new by my grandparents and gifted to me in 98.

Thought about converting to a GTO many years ago but at the time money was short so I kept it a LeMans, glad I did.

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This is/was the first and only time I "restored" a car so I guess I got lucky. I didn't know this site existed until I was well into the reassembley stage.

If you see it in person you can definitely see some of my goofs.

But thanks for the compliment.

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That looks good. I would totally be happy with that level of results. What brand and color paint is that?

If you go the macco route, 2 rules of thumb, don't drop. Anything on the paint, it will chip, and don't leave out in the sun for prolong time.. keep it garaged, and use a car cover so nothing accidentally hits the car.. it's an economy paint and collision shop, you will not get high quality materials.. and if you ask for 6 coats of clear, the painter will say sure, and laugh as he is shooting the car... the words you get what you pay for..

I have no idea brand other than what maaco provided as their premium paint.

I have the color code if interested.



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What do expect for $1400, lol.

I drive it alot year round in the Florida sun and have not experienced any fading or peeling.

I will agree the paint is not very thick.

I fully expect to be painting in the future but as long it keeps holding up so will I.

Besides the car is for fun, not an investment, money pit maybe.

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Camera shots can make a car look stunning ! ....Looked at some pics on line of a 66 gto ,a few years back.....Called the guy and made an appointment to see it...Wow !!.....I told the guy...my hats off to the photographer...lol