Car choices for my teenage son
 

My oldest son is a lost cause on the car guy front but my youngest who is turning 16 this June is showing interest and promise. I've been teaching him to drive for over a year and he is willing to learn to drive a manual.

Knowing how important your first cars are in what a person's tastes are as a car guy, I'm being a little picky on what I get him. The 2 things I absolutely refuse to buy him are a 4 banger import rice rocket or a Ford.
My first choice for him would have been something 60s, small block, 4-spd, but he only seems to like the more expensive cars that are way out of my price range (which is about $5K-$6K).

What would you guys recommend that is more modern and in my budget? I'm thinking a 1998-2002 V6 6spd Firebird type of car. I don't want him having a V8 quite yet, but if the right one came along I would just put a restrictor plate on the TB and limit the throttle travel. A V8 also means higher insurance for him tho. I'm having a difficult time coming up with good options.

I bought my oldest a 2001 Toyota Corolla and he is happy to have it. I for sure want my youngest to have something "cool" to turn him into a car guy hopefully.

What does HE think? I think that's more important than what any of us will tell you.

Do you live in the snow belt? A rear wheel drive Firebird may not be the best choice for a new driver.

I live in CA. He wants a Firebird like one of mine (a 92 & a 69), but those are out of my price range :( Which is why a 98-02 V6 Firebird comes to mind. Just something sporty with RWD and a manual.

I bought an '85 Firebird new. V6, 5-speed. It was my daily driver for a bunch of years and I loved it.

Eric

2 door G body

So you refuse to buy him a good first car like a Civic or a Corolla but you will buy him a GM car like a Chevy. LOL! That made my day.

In order of importance:

(1) Your insurance agent's opinion
(2) Your son's opinion
(3) Your opinion
(4) My opinion

Personal experience: when my son turned 16, he wanted a T/A. Insurance agent said no. Not an extra $100/month, not an extra $500/month, not an extra $1000/month. Just no. He suggested starting with something else, building a good driving record for 2 years, and then they would insure the T/A. My son did, and the insurance company did. Your experience may certainly differ.

I won't tell you what 1969 4 cylinder import we put him in to build his driving record, but he was disappointed that the T/A wouldn't outrun it ;) Still loved the T/A.

Glad that your son will at least listen to your advice.

Good luck.

Jon.

I wouldn't rule out a 3rd-gen. Despite the earliest models being almost 40 years old now they're still cheap. A nice example can be had for under $3,000. Most of the time it takes a seller to go under $2,000 to actually find a buyer. The MPFI V6 and feedback carb/TBI 305 V8 engines are reasonably reliable and easy to get parts and work on. All of them are well under 200HP that a 4th-gen V6 Firebird makes.

Well put.

Honestly, what ever he gets, it's going to get bruised and probably on occasion driven hard.
I'd say get something that is economical in respect to both purchase price, and for maintenance costs;
That being said, forget the seemingly scandalous history of the car, the 2005-2010 Cobalt (or better yet G5) is really a good car.
You should be able to get a really nicely equipped one now for a song.
Just check with your insurance company if they penalize for a two door (many consider two door cars to be sports cars)

I bought my '09 Cobalt (albeit an SS) brand new, and have never had a day of buyers remorse... only remorse that I didn't do 3m coating and the like.
The only drawback on the Cobalt/G5 is the rear visibility when backing up - the rear glass is a little high, and it takes some getting used to.

Unless you are certain that your son is responsible, I'd steer away from any of the SS models - especially the supercharged (aprox 210whp) and turbocharged (aprox 245whp)... and insurance companies like to extort you for insurance.
- The 2006-2007 "regular" SS is a 2.4l 170(?)hp naturally aspirated car offered as both coupe and sedan, with auto or five speed manual transmissions. These were renamed a "sport" and sold for the first part of the 2008 model year.
- The 2005-2007 SS Supercharged is a 2.0l "205hp" (note the rating is lower than the prior mentioned whp) car offered only as a coupe with a manual transmission; limited slip was an option that for 2005-2006(?) came with a Recaro interior option. I believe all 05, and early 06 cars come standard with the goofy spoiler.
- the 2008.5-2010 SS is a 2.0l (260hp) turbocharged car offered as a coupe (all three years) or sedan (2009 only), and only with a manual transmission. Only 2010 (carry-over year) cars came fully loaded (eg: limited slip came standard). The goofy spoiler (which grew on me) was only optional for 2008.5 & early 2009 cars - it moved to a dealer option there after.

If the SS is more to yours, and your son's liking there are also HHR SS's, as well as Neon SRT4 & Caliber SRT4's that are an absolute hoot.

I understand the appeal of finding a nice third gen Firebird, and don't want to dissuade you, but they were not great on gas, and were a little lackluster on power... in high school I had a friend with one, he was constantly bagging the living crap out of his poor (1982 SE) trying to get the tries to chirp.

If a Firebird is more to your liking, I believe that the 3.8l became the base engine for 1997 - so those cars should be decent.

When I was 16 there was no way I could get insurance for a Firebird, v6 or v8. I couldn't actually get insurance from any agent for one until I was 22 even with a spotless driving record.

Think about the car you want him learning to drive on and take care of. It shouldn't be overly nice or expensive because if he's like most teenage boys he'll be an idiot for a period of time.

I find all the information regarding insurance to be interesting. I'm 38, got my license when I was 17 1/2, and I had an 82 Firebird, a 78 Datsun 280Z, a 74 Porsche 914, and a 60 Elcamino SS in high school. Not only could I get insurance no questions asked, it was totally affordable given my after school job. Has the world really changed THAT much in just the past 20 years?

Teenage son........:oogle:

Its not a matter of what car YOU would like him to be seen in, its a matter of what car best suits his age and personality.

My opinion is you buy him the SAFEST possible car for the money you have. Something with airbags, proven crash rating, road stability.

From there you can move on to what car HE will accept as a good first car.

ONLY when he has enough miles under his belt and his senses have fully kicked in, you can then move him up to a car which he might aspire to. I don't care what you say, how smart, how sensible, how responsible you think he is, a 16y/o kid is going to make some errors of judgement. You want him to be safe at all times.

Don't ask me why I say all this or how I know it.

Just believe me when I say your son is the most precious thing in your life. Don't be wise after the event.

Good luck in your decisions.

Ian

Excellent point. I'll take that to heart. Thank you.

My daughters first car was a 1978 Grand Prix with a 301. Car went for years with minor repairs and routine maintenance. Sold it for over half what I paid for it.

Just one more thing. I think you are super SMART to make him drive a manual as his first car.

Long story short, 26 years ago, my oldest daughter (then 19 y/o) was on a remote cattle station with 3 guys. The driver of the very old manual Toyota Land Cruiser had a life threatening accident. No phone or radio communication. Other 2 guys only knew automatics. Emily jumped in the cruiser, drove more than 3 hours in the dark in very rough terrain for help. These things happen maybe just once in your life and hopefully never but the fact is, she was capable.

Learning to drive a manual is a wonderful grounding to be a first class driver.

I'm your age and multiple insurance agencies all said NO to anything 2 door with a v8 engine or ANY F-body or Mustang when I called around asking. They had a list of cars they didn't insure for teenagers and all seemed to refer to the same list - they called it a "restricted list" car. Amusingly enough a GTO or A-body wasn't on that list. You may have been able to get insurance, but would it have met the standard for the state at the time in the event of an accident? Texas and California were kind of nuts with their restrictions.

Sure, kids I knew drove those cars in high school but my insurance company said they and their parents were taking a big risk doing so. I haven't thought about this in 15+ years so I have no clue how the world works now vs. how it *really* worked then.

some kids under twenty can be responsible with a high powered car;
I'd like to think that I was one of those few.
I first started driving on my own (I was paying insurance) at eighteen, in a state (Manitoba) which has what I coin as socialist insurance, at hte time that meant I could afford it no questions asked;
About a year later I mived two states over (Alberta) where the insurance was all private - I found myself paying more in one month for insurance than it costed me for a full year in the other state.

I survived, made it work, and then eventually bought my cobalt, and got myself raked over the coals again...
Mind you I was 32 when I got the car, but because of:
1) small production numbers for the turbo cars
2) all the kids who got them (most were significantly younger than me) tended to write them off ... the attrition rate was staggering.
That made them look like a high risk car.
So I got raked over the coals for several years...

I had no idea how much my insurance was going to charge me before I bought the car...
It was around that time that I realized many insurance companies see a two door car as a sports car - what a crock of crap... I just wasn't being penalized for a while because my "sports cars" were old enough that no one cared.

Yeah, long as I've had my license CA has had a minimum requirements law which I had to be compliant with. I think I had Famers or StateFarm. I have StateFarm now so I guess I'll ask if they have any sort of "restricted" list for teenage drivers.

Absolutely. For the past year+ he's been learning in his brothers Corolla but I feel he's mastered that to a large degree and he is open to learning to drive a stick so I'm certainly going to buy him a manual if I can find one.

He also wants to do some more professional driving course with me in a couple years once he has a large number of miles under his belt. I've been through all of that many times to a semi-pro level and have taught him many of the basics already. I started him out on challenging winding mountain roads.

State Farm was who I was with when I bought my Cobalt;
I left them to save money back in 2013, and since then I have given them two opportunities to get my business, each time, they are way more money than others...
It's a shame, I liked my agent.

I also agree that learning stick is a good move.

I learned stick, like some of my other friends, but for the road test I used an automatic car.

Something the doesn't have too much power, is safe and handles/stop quickly. Mistakes will be made!

I would maybe look for an 80's vehicle like a G body or 3rd gen that someone had already done some leg work and swapped a gen 3+ 5.3/6.0

In theory a little more reliable, while still very cool.

Or the same type of swap in a pickup. V8 RWD and cheaper than hot rod cars ussually.

Also, El Caminos remain cheaper than most A bodies.

that brings me back to my initial suggestion:
2005-2010 Cobalt/G5

every vehicle has it's detractors... to me, these are leaps ahead of the Cavaliers...

oh!

A Sunfire!!

I had one of those for a brief spell (the only car I bought to flip, and I easily doubled my money on that car!)

the pre-2002 non-GT's made something like 120 hp, and the GT's made something like 150hp
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...1_original.jpg

Since insurance is being considered, one other suggestion. Check with the agent for a liability limit waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above the state minimum.

At least in Missouri, the driver, if found liable, is liable for the total cost, regardless of what the liability limits are from the insurance company.

An accident with major injuries could cost the car, the house, the bank account, and ones savings. Additional liability is NOT that expensive.

Jon

Correct. I usually follow my agent's advice on all of the limits and will be doing the same for him. Both my kids understand the importance because my oldest crashed a new car I had when he was learning to drive and my insurance took care of everything so they know the value first hand.

yeah that liability thing was never really explained to me until I was in my 30s. I always carried the minimum. Whatever was cheapest, like most lower and middle income people do I imagine. Then it was explained to me that I needed to have enough coverage to cover whatever I happened to be worth at the moment. 401k, house, cars, etc.

Sort of an eye opening conversation.

Wasn't it the Cobalt that killed kids and GM blamed the parents? It would be the last car I would consider. Actually, I'd rather have a kid walk then drive one of those.

the cobalt accident was a "loss of power steering" deal that all the manufacturers have been intermitantly dealing with for several years on these electrical power steering units;
even if the electrically assisted power steering does crap out, the steering wheel is still mechanically connected to the rack - it's just the power assist.

I don't recall GM seeming to blame any parents;
I do remember subsiquent stories showing that even if the electric power steering motor was to fail, that the car can still be controlled. I saw it as more of a meaure to calm peoples fears.

I don't want to come across as callous, because I do believe that indeed a kid died;
In a similar sad loss of life, was there not a big cufufle about "uncontrolled acceleration" on toyotas which was traced to the floor mat sliding forward underneath the gas pedal?
Does that mean you would rather walk than drive a toyota?

the other issue that cause a media wide recall announcement was a cheap ignition tumbler;
this essentially makes the key at some point stuck in the tumbler.

Like I said every car has issues.

I doubt there are many Cobalts/G5's out there thet have not had the tumbler replaced, or the electric power steering motor checked and or replaced.

My favorit flub, was the first batch of Cruze's which had the steering wheels FALL OFF!!
LOL

:D You have 2. Give him one of yours.

Having owned a few 82-92 fbodies, please don't consider one. (Maybe the later ones don't suck.) He will end up hating cars. I was offered another one for free not that long ago. Told the guy I'd pound my dick flat with a rubber mallet before I'd even think of owning it.

My son is 17 now. drove a gbody wagon for a year, then ended up at the career center for his junior year. Went from 3 miles a day each way to 15. He's got a Civic now for the fuel economy. He loves a badass V8 and has done time with a certain nitro powered Pontiac we all love. The next generation of car-loving kids are alive and well. The phone obsessed nerds will pay people like my kid in the future to fix their ****.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

We picked up a solid straight 97 4.0 XJ Cherokee Sport for my son 6 plus years ago when he began his Soph year of HS. Installed brand new Michelins, a little front end work, and a cheap B/C respray of the mid body line up, body color painted the prev charcoal colored wheel flares & thin cladding, as well as painted the new rear bumper. The XJ made a great HS vehicle. $2700 and change was outlay, looked sweet, had a lot of compliments on it. It's the 4th XJ 4.0 XJ Cherokee I've owned & has not needed that much repair. Since putting my son in my wife's prev '06 4Runner, I've kept the XJ Cherokee & use it for moving my car trailer around the perimeter of the outside my shop (several tight spots as ton of trees). Also use on local parts chasing trips. On roadtrips, I keep running across fairly clean '97-01 XJ's & when the right one pops up, I will buy it.

Well said but I would have included, "the most reliable". The last thing you want to do is have your kid break down in the middle of nowhere. Nothing worse than picking "brand loyalty" over "reliability". That is why many kids first car is a Honda or Toyota.

No, the world has really changed in the last 40 or so years.

"Knowing how important your first cars are in what a person's tastes are as a car guy, I'm being a little picky on what I get him."


What I get him? Personal taste? What about what "he" can afford to buy and insure?

/\ heh-heh...

I wished I had parents who would have supplied me with a car and insurance so I wasn't about to knock a guy for wanting to hook his kid up with a set of wheels;
But I liked the last part of your post because I, like most of my friends took the bus to and from school... with only the occasional ride home with a friend.

Lots of good points in this thread. I like your first inclination in post 1. Both my daughters had F cars as their first cars. Oldest daughter a 85 V-6 auto, youngest
a 94 V-6 5-speed. Of course they loved the looks and style, buy safety was my biggest concern. The V-6 F bodies have a huge amount of crush zone in front and back too. Older daughter tested this 6 months after she got the car. Pulled out of a 2 way country road intersection right into a late model extended cab Chevy Truck going probably 50-55 MPH. She had 5 people in the F-Car. The front bumper was 200 ft from the accident scene. The right rear valve cover was 6" into the passenger compartment. Windshield cracked, but not broken out. Both doors still opened, no injuries in her car. A few bumps and bruises. The car absorbed a huge amount of energy. Pick-up also no injuries other than a few bumps and scrapes. Truck was hit so hard between the doors, only 3 wheels were on the ground. I was very impressed with the structure of the F-car. Not too impressed with my daughter who was without a car and a license for quite a while. My other daughter drove her 94 Firebird through 4 years of college and I think I replaced the alternator and a headlight motor other than maintenance. Good cars IMO.

I bought my oldest son (now going on 32) a 1987 K5 Blazer when he got his driver's license. He beat the crap out of it, blew out two rear ends, but he learned a lot about working on cars. When he finally dealt it the death blow (the third rear end), he got a 2000 Chevy 4x4 short bed truck. We got it with about 130K, and when he finally totalled it (the other driver's fault) it had over 300K miles.

I got my youngest son a 1999 2-door Tahoe Z71. It has been incredibly reliable, especially since my youngest isn't prone to beat his daily driver like his brother did.

I would recommend a 90s Chevy short bed pickup truck or a 2-door Tahoe. They are great cars and really reliable, and you can enjoy it when you ground him.

Get em an old jeep. Can't go too fast and it's simple, simple, simple to work on.

Just one of many opinions to add to the pile.

When younger, my daughter had a penchant for hitting anything that couldn't move fast enough to get out of her way. That includes trees in our yard, picnic table, a bar-b-que grill (different days), carport support post, fence, school mates car, car at hair dresser, someone's mailbox. Ad infinitum.
Sadly, I learned this after giving her an 84 Hurst/Olds that I had worked many nights and weekends to present to her in flawless condition on her 16th birthday. That's another vote for a G body being a safe choice.
After years of much abuse, in '02 the Olds was followed by a super clean '01 Camaro. She and the Camaro experienced a couple of front end damage claims with no injuries. Then there were a couple of unreported incidents that required paint. I fixed those too.
About 7 seven years ago she parted with the Camaro and got into a really nice Yukon I found.
I just knocked on wood, and can claim I've not had to do any body repairs or painting on the Yukon.
And I just knocked on wood again.

I say the G body of any flavor is a great choice for a first car. Followed by the F.

And you call yourself a car guy?!? C'mon, live a little. Play with turbos, Ford, German, Japanese whatever. Learn something new with your son, it'll go farther than you trying to impart just your opinions on him.

An E30 BMW is a nice driver for ~$5000 and simple to work on, prices are going up on the 325is models.
Porsche 944s are pretty cheap, but steer clear of the turbo models unless you have $ to burn.
Honda S2000s are great little cars - total opposite of the torque spectrum from a GM V8 but they still wail.
And Ford, yes the blue oval still cranks hard. Mustangs are the best selling pony car for a reason.

All rear drive, all driver's cars. All 'car guy' cars.

It doesn't matter how fast/quick the car is that you buy him it will be fast enough to get him, heaven forbid, killed. Like some of the others suggested get him something SAFE. I'm old so I know. My first car was a flat head Pontiac. Talk about slow but I lost my license a week after I got it for driving 20 over the limit. Any car can get you in trouble so again get him a safe one. It doesn't have to be ugly.

A 1988 Pontiac Fiero with a V6 and a 5 speed. Some what fast, handles great good on gas, you can take it to car shows and one of the very safest small cars out there. ( voted by testing not by me google it) I know they have been given some really bad raps but don't believe it. I bought my son one when he turned 16 and he fell in love with the car. He still has it and he is now 24. You can pick up a real nice one for small money, although they have been climbing in price lately. The other plus for a young kid is it only has 2 seats, so you can't pile in all your friends and get distracted when driving.

Also of note, while 4th gen trans am are expensive, especially if you want the big pissed off hood, 4th gen Camaros are pretty cheap. Gen3 power with a T-56 could be had for fairly cheap with tons of aftermarket opportunity.

I agree about the Fiero. I found a dead 1986 Fiero SE with a bad motor. We found a used 3.1 motor and had my daughter help me swap. She realized how much work and money repairing a car can be . She took very good care of that car while her friends were destroying all of the new cars their parents were buying them. I think working on that car she had a lot of sweat equity into it. She drove it for 4 years and then my son inherited it. He wanted a manual trans so we found a wrecked V-6 5 speed car and stripped it of the needed parts. It took us almost a year to rebuild that car for him. He was on his permit and driving with me and my 4 cylinder 5 speed Fiero SE in the meantime. He took great pride in that car. His friends teased him his car was 2 years older than him. He did not care, he loved that Fiero. He probably had 200 runs at Milan Drag way with the Royal Pontiac Club of America drag days and 8 years of daily driving to high school and then college. The Fiero was a very safe vehicle. It was also small so they could not carry other people, distractions, around with him. It was a very good experience for me and them with that car. I enjoyed working with them and nurturing their love of cars. Now I have their kids that I have to instill a love of cars. That is going to be fun.

While Fieros are fairly reliable and held up very well in crash tests back in the day I would still want a car with as many air bags as I could get for the money. Air bags DO save lives and with all the crazies and pre-occupied drivers on the road these days, the more bags the better. Also, Volvos are known to be one of the safest vehicles on the road and a Volvo wagon with some miles on it can be bought reasonable. Sure they're fugly, but safe and reliable.

My Daughters first car, 6cyl. 5 sp. 1995.

Anddddddd her car now. :cool:

Guess im too practical. I understand you wanting to get him interested in cars, but that will happen no matter what he drives. For a first car I would buy something safe and reliable, Toyota or honda. I would stay away from anything german, too expensive to upkeep, especially if they have some years on them ( my wife drives a Mercedes, ask me how I know). When my son turned 16 there was a caddy sedan for sale down the street for 1500. He bought it with money he had saved. He washed and waxed it every weekend and loved that old thing. I figured it was big and slow enough that he wouldn't get hurt in it.

I guess it depends on the kid. Also we made our kids wait until they were 18 to drive, and they had to have their own insurance. We helped pay for their first cars, but they had to pay that back as well. By 18 they both had jobs and were a bit more careful with their cars knowing we were not going to replace them if they abused the driving privledge. My Son got a used 1986 Ford Taurus SHO. He never had an accident, Miranda is wild like her mama lolol. She danced with a turn here sign going into a shopping center, and guess what......she had to fix it and she paid for it. :D of course dad helped her. She eventually got bored with the 6cly. Bird and up graded to the WS6 TA.

@ Firedup;
Thanks for sharing those pictures, and the story... that seems pretty cool of you -and I liked seeing the final picture of you helping her work on the car.

@mgar; I enjoyed reading your story too.

@ jerry; again, I enjoyed the story.

I initially poped in here to offer advice, but ended up gleaning some great ideas from many of you - ideas that I hope to put to use in about twelve years ;)
My son is turning four nex week, and my daughter turns two about two weeks after that.

I like the sweat equity bit.

This is where the respect for cars....all cars started. She was 4.