multiport EFI & distributorless system for your Pontiac
 

Toss that carb and distributor! Multiport EFI and DIstributorless ignition is available for your beloved Pontiac engine! I designed it for my personal car and due to its success, looking to offer this to others. The system uses off the shelf parts (sensors, ECU*, coils, throttle body, ect) with the exception of the cam & crank triggers and sensor housings which I designed. It is the LS1/6 ECU (aka 0411)* running your old school engine. You get all of the modern conveniences. No more cold weather warm ups or carb inconveniences. Turn the key and go. Could even remote start if desired with additional controls. (not recommended for manual trans cars for obvious reasons). Will control your fans, AC and transmission too if running one of the newer overdrives.
The test bed was my 78 Trans am with 455(474) & T56 transmission, 3.73 rear & 26" tire. On our trip to Ohio (1300 miles round trip), we averaged 17 mpg & 20 mpg on the highway tanks. Performance improved as well. Starting cold or hot is a simple twist of the key just like you'd expect your from your newer daily driver. Driveability is very smooth; even compared to the older throttle body system which was previously installed.
*NOTE: You are not limited to using the GM ECU. Other aftermarket ECUs can work with this as long as they accept hall-effect signals for the cam and crank signals. I know Megasquirt & Haltech. The Holley ECU’s may be able to work as as well. This is currently a 24x , 1x trigger setup. If there is enough interest, a 58x , 4x trigger system can be made available. ECU tuning will depend on which ECU you ultimately choose.
Looking to see who would be interested in both possible future purchase and those ready to purchase now to see if the venture is viable. Some parts are made, having one part revised and made.
.You will get crank & cam triggers & housings, new Pioneer 18.1 SFI balancer w/ crank trigger along with composite distributor gear. Remaining parts & wiring are on the end user at this point in time. A list will be provided. Introductory pricing is 1100 + shipping. If you provide your own balancer & gear, deduct 375. I can install this setup on your car as an option. You will need to get it to NJ.
This is not intended to be a low budget system although it can be if you are handy. There are a few cheap throttle body (glorified carburetor) systems out there as well as higher cost ones. Idea behind this was to use readily available parts that most stores would carry that would also provide modern tech to the Pontiac engine.

Reply or PM. Need to clean out the PM box. You can also email me
info at second gen engineering dot com

That's pretty cool you retrofit the old 0411 ECU to work. They're a pretty versatile box and underated in my opinion. The only negative I have with them is that they can be fun to troubleshoot issues, but experience can help there.

I've been running distributorless MPFI for years now, and have had it running a flex fuel composition sensor for the last year with both e85 and pump gas table blending. Best thing I ever did!

Looks like a nice kit. I understand firsthand the amount of work involved in both parts selection/compatibility, fabrication, and installation of a system like this on a Pontiac. Looks like a fair price point too. Good luck with your venture.

Really nice job with that! Can you share more details about how you designed/built the crank and cam trigger system?

I went with the 0411 mainly for the cable throttle body & shaker clearance. Otherwise, the E38 DBW ECU would have been the choice. You can use the P59 ECU which is the 0411 w/ 1 MB of RAM. Both 0411 & P59 have flex fuel capabilities. While I am currently not using that feature, I have pondered bringing it online. Either unit will work and both have been proven in factory applications for a few billion miles.

Troubleshooting has been in positive as it helped identify a few things when I first put the system in operation. I had a 'CEL' made in place of the seat belt telltale in the factory speedo. Do enjoy the precise tuning abilities which allow you to adjust specific areas/ cells. Good luck doing that with a carb.

Spent many hours with different designs. Finally decided on the current. Will probably redesign the crank sensor holder with less adjustability for more plug & play in the future. For now, it works. Crank trigger mimics the LS 24x unit which has the inverse wheel . Its 2 triggers mounted together. Sensor holder mounts off the fuel pump block off plate and is adjustable back & forth for different width balancers and radially to dial in the timing. By dialing in , I am referencing engine timing to the ECU/ trigger so the sensor knows where TDC (0 deg) is. I set the timing tables to an arbitrary number say 25 deg. Then with a timing light, position the sensor such that the timing tab/ balancer reads 25 deg or whatever you choose. This correlates the 2 and now its all handled in the tables. This is the design I'd like to eliminate so its plug & play but wanted the adjustment initial until I could pin point exact sensor placement. There is roughly 10 deg of allowable movement. No need to cheat it as you do all yours timing in the tables, just want the 2 to be accurate.

I'd think it's better to leave the adjustability in the crank sensor mount. It will allow for correction in case of tolerance stack, etc. Everyone should expect to verify crank timing, as it is so critical.

I like the adjustability too. Looking for idiot proof some things. However, this is a more advanced system than some of the other cheaper glorified carbs out there.

I think as long as you emphasize in the instructions to verify the crank timing with a timing light you'll be good. Bold, italicized, repeated during the set up and start up section, etc.

This sounds like something I will be interested in when i get my Bird back together. I was planning on running the Holley Dominator set up. Would like to run a 58x , 4x trigger system... It would be controlling a MPFI TT 496 (455) with a LS 105 electronic throttle body and a TH400 (or 4L80E) with Gear Vendor.

Would this run individual coils?

SPEED SAFE, NICK

Nick

This setup does take advantage of the individual coil packs as shown in the posted pictures. You would better utilize the setup with the 4L80 vs the 400.

Currently, it is setup for the 24x. I do have the 58x components designed but not in production. Should enough interest arise, I do not have issues producing the 58x components. You could still use the 24x system with a DBW PCM with an available adapter box from Lingenfelter.

24x would use the 0411 or P59 PCM
58x would use the E38 (and others) PCM

What are you doing for a cam sensor? As part of a distributorless oil pump drive?

What are you doing for a cam sensor?

Using a 3 wire hall effect sensor.


As part of a distributorless oil pump drive?

It is integrated into the oil pump drive 'distributor' shaft. Top half runs the cam sensor/ signal while the lower part (block surface down) operates just like a traditional distributor/ oil pump drive. Only stocks out about 2" above the block surface.

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I currently have my CV-1 4500 intake @ Marcella Manifolds getting it converted to MPFI. I sent and Accufab throttle body and a super sucker along and having everything matched to the intake /carb throat...it currently has a cloverleaf design. I'd be very interested in seeing where this goes. Whatever is the latest and greatest is what I'm wantin'! Keep us up to date! I'll be ready to jump into the "MPFI pool" head first soon enough.

Bnick166 & others

I have 12 -15 sets of parts made. Currently having crank trigger wheels made per the revised design along with mounting tooling.

This project is moving forward.

When I get some time, I will post/ link a video of my car that has the system currently starting, driving, ect.

Made a short video of the system running in the car. Been flawlessly operating for the past year since it was installed.

https://youtu.be/vhTHRymPSlM

Nice job, and nice car.

If you are ready to market this, please let me know. [email protected] or 585-489-9826.

What ignition s are you using for your system.

Not the normal "COP" (coil on plug) or "CNP" (coil near plug) configurations normally used.
Coils and bracket to mount them really nice work but they take up a lot of space it appears.

Tom V.

That's awesome man! 0411 PCM's you can't really go wrong with considering how cheap they are and readily available.

I am interested in this for my pro-touring Formula project, but would like to see the list of other things I would need to buy.

Will give you call Don .

The GM coils don't seem big, but packageing 8 of them takes a little bit of real estate. For this application, I choose the GM 0411 ecu for all drivetrain related controls. Didn't want multiple control boxes. Just 1 doing it all. That's one of the reasons I made this. You can use other ECUs such as Haltech, Motech, MS3Pro, ect. Have the 58x setup designed which I'll start with the GM E38 ECU.

Thanks! Its been a fun adventure.

Thanks. Its a great ECU thats been proven in a few million applications over a few billion miles.

This setup allows for personal preferences. The reluctors & sensors will work with other components. You have the freedom to choose what you want. You can go as much or as little as you wish.
A few parts
In-tank fuel pump. External will work but keep up with today's tech.
Fuel pressure regulator. Can use the GM filter / regulator is desired. That is not adjustable.
Any intake w/ injector bungs
Injectors
Fuel rails
Throttle body
MAP, ECT, IAT , & O2 senors
ODB2 port inside car
Harness, relays, fuses, ect
This application started with a stripped down 4th gen harness and integrated that into the car. Its separate from the body haness aside for some powers & grounds. This makes its easy to trace wires. Body is 78 Fbody, Drivetrian is 2000 F body. One could use a truck harness also. Wire colors are the same for arguments sake.



Optional:
Wideband O2 sensors, AC trinary switch, fuel pressure sensor
Depending on which ECU, you could even run a flex fuel sensor for E85.

Extra optionals the GM ECU allows
4Lxx trans
electric fans
electric speedo
AC
Ect

I have a 5th gen ZL1 fuel pump module (in tank w/built in regulator) and Vaporworx PWM controller so I can run returnless, but starting from scratch everywhere else. Car is not wired yet, so have lots of degrees of freedom there. This seems like a better option than the EZ-EFI 2.0 TB system I have on hand and was planning to use, but I have a lot of learning to do. Where to begin?

Not to be a smart a#%, but begin at the beginning. The manuals for hardware installation, and tuning software. Also, make sure you have an understanding of generally what the sensors are, what they do, how they're used in combination to make it all work. Basically an efi basics type thing. I spent a couple of years studying all of it, just to make a decision which ecu I wanted to use. Also, study up on noise, and grounding. Wiring mistakes will sink even the best system.

I'm going to shamelessly plug the folks at DIY Autotune, not because i'm a solid fan of the Megasquirt range, but because of this book --> https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...tems-hp-books/

Recommend anyone who's not played with EFI before, read that. I'd rate it as an entry level type of book into the world of EFI.

That was part of my studies as well Kris.

That was helpful information. Just ordered one.

When learning EFI back in the TBI days, I related the different components to those of a carb which I knew very well. While they don;t 100% crossover, it'll get you going and you can build your knowledge from there.

Holley efi and their distributor will work as well.

Revised the crank trigger. Will have about a dozen sets ready to go very shortly.

Will your reluctor wheel bolt to an ATI superdamper?

I am seriously considering using your system... And the distributor / oil drive plug, is that your design or is it an aftermarket one? This is the only complete system I have seen for a Pontiac...


SPEED SAFE, NICK

ATI list their diameters at 7.074" OD & 6.325" OD. The small dia offering most likely won't work as the mounting holes would be too close to the OD. The larger would mount OK by the trigger wheel teeth would not extend beyond the OD much. Not sure how it would affect the sensor's pick signal. If the balancer is solid for the first 1" +/- from the OD, drilling & tapping it should be an issue. The sensor hold allows forward and rearward adjustment to compensate for different banacer thicknesses, thus that aspect isn't and issue. Would need to see and or speak with ATI regarding their balancer design.

The distributor / oil drive plug is my design.

Any updates on this system?

I have all the components to ship. I've had in operation for about 2 years. PM with any questions & inquiries.

I am interested in "updating" my injected bird. Currently running commander 950 (circa 2008 ...batch fire system) and due to ANCIENT technology I am curretnly UNABLE to do anything with said system due to not having a windows XP ....(long story on the software stuff). So what/if can we do to get to the finish line.

That's funny, I was running the Projection 4i before designing this. I ran into the same issue you did in terms of limitations. This is bring you up to current times. Contact me via PM or email and I will be glad to discuss.

Wow nice!

What wheels are you running?
Tell me about the front suspension.
Tell me about the air condition. Looks like a mix of old and new?
What serpentine system is that?

Wow nice!

What wheels are you running?
Forgeline WC3

Tell me about the front suspension.
Mix of Global west, Pro touring Fbody (upper arms, true coil overs with adjustable ride height via jack screw) & HO racing (sway bar). Seam welded subframe

Tell me about the air condition. Looks like a mix of old and new?
Yes. Sanden compressor on an otherwise factory setup

What serpentine system is that?
Billet Specialties

I will be at the TA Nats with this system in operation. Look for a Gold 78 TA in one of the modified classes. Possibly super Street by their classification.

What is the current status of this setup.

Thanks
Murf

Murf

Parts are in my hands. send me an email. [email protected]

Larry

Are you still selling parts? I have holley efi on the car now and want to go to a crank rigger and cam sensor.

I have sets ready to ship. Email me twowhls at hotmail.com

Larry

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Email has been sent

Excited to post that we have seen a good bit of interest with this setup. Sold out of what we have made & making another batch. Reviews on it have been great. Some revisions are being made to the next batch (nothing major) & we will be introducing some additional components for the system. Best way to contact or request information is through the company site secondgenengineering.com.