New 1/8th times. Successes and Failures
 

Went to the local 1/8 mile for TNT on Friday.

This is after swapping out my mechanical setup for an LS swap fuel tank I got lucky and found locally. Swapped my Robb MC regulator to return style and ran a -8 return line. Should be noted that I had issues with the mechanical system. The car would fall on its face around 2-300 feet, killing ETs. That was remedied by the Tanks Inc fuel injection tank with baffling, as well as an electric pump that is way overkill for a carb. I think it supports like 550 HP injected. So neck that down to 7psi and its plenty for me. So the fuel system upgrade was a big win, though I think I might have a leak at full tank. The pump might need a new seal.

Ran my fastest time and MPHs but I was really looking for 7.90s. Didn’t quite get there. I ran a bunch of 8.1s.

My best time I actually forgot to take a picture of the slip. It was an 8.12 @ 87 with a 1.8 60’

The two pictured were my fastest MPH runs. I feel like I’m making the power to be in the 7s based on the MPH. The 3.08s aren’t helping but even with those I think I can get there.

It was HOT. Certainly not helping. I also had I think 19 psi in the ET Streets. I could take a few more pounds out to try and help.

I had a couple of sub 2 60s but didn’t coincide with my best runs otherwise. I had one run where the Trans didn’t shift when I went 1-2. That concerns me slightly.

The slower slip was actually a little grudge race I set up with a 75 year old woman lol. It was more fun than going down the track solo. I spun on the 60 but had a little more car than she did and beat her by a little up top. She had a G body with a 406.

Hopefully the slips post right side up. The forums always want to put them sideways.

If it’s not obvious I’m car 138. (For the fellow Misfits fans out there)

You had fun that's all that matters.....even if you got beat by a 75 year old with a grocery getter!:D
Rock on RocktimusPryme! :guitar:

Hey hey hey now, I won that race lol.

It is fun, I would rather it have been bracket racing. Win or lose I like competition more.

Haha! Ya sure...lol.
Glad you got to take it out!

Glad to see you got the conversion done and making progress :beerchug:

It's just hard to beat the pump in the tank with big feed and return lines and your testing shows that. Best way to go in my opinion.

Yeah, I understand the allure of staying mechanical. If your fuel system is in good shape otherwise, sure try to upgrade your pump. But if a car is like most of these when restorations start, with a tank or lines that need to be replaced anyway. There is just no good reason to not go in tank.


Though to be fair, my issues really only showed up on the track. That and slow starting after it sat for a week. Even with the electric I still get more drainback than I feel like I should. If it sits for a few days, I can hear the pump fill the lines when I turn the key on.

The swap overall went well for me. Converting the Robb regulator was a breeze, only had to run one line. I do need to bend my big 1/2 stainless feed line in one place. Currently because of its location I get a kink in the soft line on the way to the regulator. I got to eliminate about 8 feet of hose in the front of the car because the mechanical pump is on the opposite side of the fuel lines in a first gen Bird. Relay in the engine bay with only one big wire running back to the pump. If it wasn't so damned hot out it would have been even easier.

One place I got lazy was the power wire for the pump, I ran it under the car. In the future Ill probably run that inside. I did at least cover it in snakeskin for mechanical protection. I also may have to drop the tank and replace the seal. Im going to put it on a hill and let all the gas run to the front and see whats up.

If you were on a 1/4 mile track I feel your gains likely would have multiplied as you went down track.

Thanks for updating.

I'm kind of leaning towards getting away from the pure stock theme on my bird and updating the fuel system. I think I've gone as fast as I can go with the stock fuel system. I'll likely do a Tanks Inc setup and 1/2" lines, that'll give it room to grow in the future, plus I'm curious how it may help the car at the track. May try to get that done before the November race.

At 87 mph...you've definitely got enough power to run 7's.

Ive wondered the same thing with the 3.08s. Would my second half of the track be a little better than my first?

If I were to have built the rear from scratch I would have bought 3.23s, but my core came with 3.08s. Didn't seem worth the money to jump one notch. Plus, I drove 75 mph down the highway too and from the track under 3000 RPM.

Another note, because I don't have a rev limiter, I shift fairly early to be safe. On the dyno we know my motor makes power up to 58-5900, but Ive been shifting at more like 5200. If I were to ring it all the way out, there might be a little more left still. Even these runs were a little harder on it, I ran a full MPH faster than I had before. Im also still a novice with real race tires. I have a total of maybe 7 passes with drag radials.

Ill do the 1/4 Injun Wars event @ Indy, other than that I will probably wait for a little cooler weather before I run again.

Also, Ive said it before, but another shout out to TSP converters. Mine is awesome.

From my experience....yes. When running those numerically low gears, you spend so much more time in each gear to reach peak rpm shift points, it's a real strain on the fuel system. If the fuel system is marginal, it'll show up in a car with 3.08's before it'll show up in a car with 4.10's.

I do like the TSP converters. I put one in the Firebird I restored for John, and it was a very nice converter.
Swapped dad's over to TSP, since the Continental really wasn't cutting it. Had to do a restall on the TSP but this second time around it's really nice on the street, much better than before. Haven't gotten to the track with this new version but will soon.

What is the stall rpm of the converter?

Also, are you still in 2 gear at finish line?


:)

I cant remember for 100% sure what Cliff told me he specced it too. It was either 3400 or 3600. I remember blinking a few times when he told me I could have one stall that high and still be good on the street, but Im a believer now.

I am still in 2nd when I cross the line in the eighth, but I think its fairly close. Like if it was a quarter I think I would be shifting right after the 1/8 mark. That's shifting conservatively though as I mentioned. If I were to ring it all the way to 6000 I would shift well after. I feel like I cross the 1/8th finish line between 5000 and 5200. Ill be sure to check that number the next time I run.

Once I realized that I could just run out the track after my first few runs, I pay less attention to the tach after the 1-2 shift.

Can you post a dyno sheet or if you have posted one a link to that thread?

Stan

There is a thread from me circa like 2016 or 17 with dyno numbers. Its kinda clunky to find on the search function, but I think I have it saved to favorites on my personal computer. Im leaving work now, Ill look it up from home in a couple hours if someone doesn't beat me to it.


The numbers were a best of 579HP and something like 590 FtLbs with a 2" spacer and a 1050 dominator house carb.


With no spacer and custom 850 Qjet, full exhaust, accessories and all I figure Im probably more like 540-550 HP.

I drove my 73 TA on the street for many years with a 3200 RPM stall converter. It was the best thing that helped my TA, until I started running 7" wide slicks at the track. That knocked a bunch off the ET's.


:)

What does your exhaust system consist of? Does your car spin off the line or hook?

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...highlight=Dyno

Dyno sheet thread. Cam info is a few posts down.


As for the exhaust, its Dougs longtubes for a roundport, down to 3" tubes all the way back with an X pipe. Magnaflow mufflers. This probably is a place im giving up a little power as its a common exhaust shop system. Its got a couple crush bends. I would like to redo the portion before the X's to have mandrel bends and maybe the gradual neck down header reducers. Once you get towards the back it probably doesnt matter much.


Traction is a little bit of both I guess. Hooking and spinning. Some of that is driver error im sure. Im new to the world of sticky tires. I made 5 runs on Friday, two 1.8s and three 2.0 60's. Some where i clearly heard or felt the tires come loose. Again, it was quite hot, and Im not 100% sure what PSI I should have the tires or how long to spend in the burnout box. So I dont know how good of info I can give there.

I would like to see 1.7 60's but the conditions werent optimal at all. Plus I have the 3.08s with a standard first gear th400. Its never going to pull the wheels off the ground.

I probably could launch a little harder? One of the last places on the car I havent strengthened is the yoke on the 8.5. Its still a 1310, though it does have a nice Spicer solid joint. When Im foot braking the converter I have visions to annihilating that U joint.

Keep working on your 60', bump up your shift points a bit and you will have your 7.90s. Then, you need more gear...then you need more cam....then you need some spray.....

Nice work, neat car.

-Abone.

What time had it run before?

Nothing comparable really. Last year it ran an 8.7 @87.5 on common like Cooper Cobra tires.

The one time I took it to the 1/4 track in Indy it fell on its face due to fuel. Upgraded the pump and got it to go down the 1/8 on street tires.

First time out this year with the sticky tires/subframe connectors and the fuel issues resurfaced. I cut a couple 1.8 60s on a better track and cooler day but it would sputter at 300 feet.

I ran a best of I think 8.3 but way down on mph due to the half track stall. 82 MPh IIRC

So the new numbers posted about are with sticky tires and the FI style fuel system.

It’s improving. I still don’t have any kinda of traction device other than a couple clamps on the leaf springs.

I’m building an actual drag car so I’m not trying to make this thing a race car. But I would REALLY like to be able to call it a legit 11 second car. Which I think is feasible.

After seeing your dyno numbers, it may surprise you how fast your car will go eventually. Here are 2 slips note the years,60fts,1/8th mile et and mph and 1/4 mile et and mph. Both slips are from the same engine configuration 290 SD KRE heads, OF cam, 1.65 rockers, torker 2, 950 HP Holley, 1 3/4 inch Hooker headers 3 inch front x pipe..
Slip on left 3.08 geared 3710 lbs car..slip on right 3.42 gears 3900 lbs.

Shows how much is left in your engine.

Yeah, You have more cam than me especially with the 1.65 rockers. I think I have a weight advantage though. I dont know exactly what my car weighs but I would think its under 3700

I would be very happy with an 11.9. No need to be greedy lol

LOL that'll be next. Once you scale it the bug will start and you'll be looking for ways to remove some weight :D

That would be hard considering I still need to install several interior pieces. I have them. I just never got around to it. And every now and then I think real hard about adding AC.

I’m reaallly bad about getting things running well and then never finishing extraneous details. I always have too many projects to do everything I really should to any one of them.

I need to paint and sell my 43 MB So I have one less thing to mess with.

You need to get a rev limiter. Based on your dyno sheet the min RPM I would shift at is 6200. Leaving a lot of et on the table.

Stan

Running quick at the track is ALL about you well the car hooks and how hard it leaves. Efforts put into suspension and tires will get the car where you want to be more than work in other areas.

Way back when I first started getting serious about getting the Ventura into the 11's I spent a lot of time with the suspension system. I started by installing sub frame connectors (boxed and welded in place), then moved on to springs, spring clamps, adjustable pinion snubber, welding the tubes into the carrier, and drag shocks.

I'm NOT a fan of traction bars for leaf spring cars, I don't like the look of them hanging under the car and can't stand the "clunking" you get with them for street driving. Plus I'm more into the "stock" lock and ride height, plus using stock rims tucked up nicely under the car. When folks start gendering at your car after you make a hard run without any visible traction devices and stock ride height it just puts a perplexed look on their faces. The looks get even more perplexed when they take a gander under the hood and see the Q-jet sitting on a stock intake.

Anyhow, even with 3.08 gears you should be able to run quick in 60' times, so put some efforts there. I would think you could bust into the 1.6 second range with some effort as there is certainly enough power and converter there to do it. That'll knock a bunch of ET off the time slips.

I still remember my very first outings with the old 455 making apprx 1hp/CID. I was all over the 1.9-2.0 range with 60' times and barely dipping into the 12's in the 1/4 mile. I ended up getting the car solidly into the 1.67-1.69 range without doing anything to the engine. It took some work but I ended up running 12.0's at 112mph when the smoke cleared and the dust settled from those efforts. I would have busted right on into the 11's with that combo but KRE developed their new aluminum heads and I was asked to test them so went that direction and never looked back........Cliff

Yeah, I knew I was leaving some on the table. I think I would need to switch oil pans before I felt comfortable shifting at 6200. I have the a stock looking (I think Canton) pan that has more modern baffles. But nothing else, no kickout, no scraper or windage tray.

Looking back, knowing a little more now than I did then, that's one big regret I have. Skimping on oiling. So maybe that's a winter project. Pull it out for a day and put a better pan on.

The only reason I haven't added an MSD box is Im using a now defunct Accel Billet distributor. Which works great, but the directions for adding a CD box didn't make sense. The directions with the accel unit seemed to denote some wire colors that didn't match. Im sure I can figure it out, need to just bite the bullet and buy one.


Cliff I know I can add some effort in the suspension. Which it should be noted hasn't been completely ignored. I don't have a ton of clapped out 50 year old components. The springs all the way around are new, if stock replacement type units. I did ditch the mono leafs for multi in the rear. The front springs are the ones Moog labled as the HD springs that came in RA II cars.


The wheels are now lightweight Race Star Darkstars. MT Et Street SSs in the back. 275/50s to keep the height down with the highway gear. The front shocks are nice Bilsteins. The rears are cheapy KYBs. That is one place Ill probably put in adjustable drag shocks in the back.

I have bolt in subframe connectors, but I think Im going to weld them in the front. Added a couple clamps on the rear leafs. I did put some tack welds on the axle tubes too. Not the prettiest but they are there. Ive had more practice and am a little better with the mig gun now.

My frist priorities are probably in the safety dept. I need to get a CD box for the rev limit function, and I need to upgrade that rear U joint to a 1350.

You are making more power and certainly lighter than I am. See sig....

As others mention, get those 60’s DOWN!

The DA doesn’t look like it was helping you....

Keep at it, the et’s should fall quickly

Have a driveshaft loop? I'd do this first. If you are running slicks it pretty much a must have. I've shaved almost a full second off my ET's by working on suspension and learning how to drive. I used to think it was all about the engine but if you are already making good power tuning isnt going to yield significant gains.

Yeah, the car is fairly well setup. I bought it as such a shell that most of the parts have been replaced by me. I put a 3 point seatbelt in for the driver. It would be pretty close to passing a thorough NHRA tech. The battery hold down isn't per say correct, but its not going anywhere. I need to put in a bracket for my little fire extinguisher.

Its got a safety loop, subframe connectors, all the fuel or transmission soft lines are NHRA approved stuff. It is still C clips, but it has rear discs so that's kinda poor mans safety device in back.

When I said "upgrades in the safety dept" I mostly meant things to keep the car safe. Like a rev limiter.

Its got a really nice converter in it, but the th400 itself was bought used off here. Supposed to be built, but you know how that goes. So I don't fully trust the trans itself.

I just took my rev limiter out. It was more of a problem than anything and it rarely, if ever did anything for me.

For me, its mostly the piece of mind that if I break a U joint, It doesn't cost me the motor when it unloads.

Im fine if I never hit the limiter, but just to know that a $30 joint failure wont cost me a $10,000 motor.

Limiter is always a good idea. Cheap insurance on an expensive engine.

Can't tell you how many times I've hit the limiter over the years, and the last couple years dad can't seem to stay off of it.

Also can't tell you how many times I wish I had a limiter on some of the cars, LOL

Here's an example of why a limiter is a good idea. This could have been a $20,000+ engine down the tube without a limiter.

https://youtu.be/eAEtmyINan4

On my previous stock rod shortblock my rev limiter saved the engine many times. 6000 rpm happens pretty quick in first gear ..

I hear ya. Dad is struggling in first gear, the engine rpms so quickly he can't catch it, so he's been short shifting 1st gear, and then he's been all over the rev limiter in 2nd too. Set the darn thing to 6300 and the shift light to 5500 hoping it gives him time to make shifts around 58-5900. It's not working yet LOL I'm ready to shove a 4L80E in the darn thing so I can program shifts electronically and just let him stab and steer the car.

On that pass I linked he was having converter issues and it was just blowing through the converter giving him the sensation the trans wasn't shifting (shift light never goes out). RPM's weren't changing. He was on a good pass there, with a 1.48 60 foot still not coming out 100%, but after this pass something in the converter wasn't right and it started clunking.
Had to send it back for a restall anyway, and they ended up building a new converter from scratch. New one seems much better but still waiting for a track day.
It's things like this that you don't expect, and the rev limiter saved the day.

Without a rev limiter I would have grenaded the first shortblock I had under the SD package first hit on the street.

That or breaking a rear, that will buzz the whole drive train.

Ouch!

Which is my concern. I think I’m going to go with the stand alone pertronix rev limiter rather than a CD box. Seems easier to unhook if the box goes bad. So many people talk about getting stranded if the MSD box dies on your.

Trigger it with the points distributor and it's not a worry. I'm doing that on 2 other cars here. If the MSD box ever dies, I can pop the hood, swap a couple wires around and drive away on the points. It's really become my favorite setup as of late.

The stand alone rev limiters like the Pertronix, or Crane, are pretty rough. It'll do what you're looking for as far as saving the engine, but boy when you hit the rev limiter on those things it feels like the engine is come apart, lol. It's nothing like the soft touch rev control of a CD box that moves random cylinders around. Plus those little control units have left me stranded more than once so I tend to not trust them.

FWIW I was just looking at the Pertronix unit, it says it steals random sparks.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-600

I have an aftermarket billet unit so I cant really do the points thing.

I just felt like the way this thing hooks up it would be very easy to simply take it out of the loop in the event it stopped working.

Oh I see, they have a digital unit now. I quit using them back about when they came out with a Pertronix II so it's been quite a while for me.

You're thinking like me, if that can be taken out of the loop fairly easy then I feel a lot better about running stuff like this. Easy to bypass in the event of a failure.

msd makes an under cap module with rev limiter too. supposed to be a higher spark energy than stock & pretty easy to install. ive been running one in my car for a couple years no with now issues. i keep the stock module in the glove box just in case.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-83647

I considered that when I had an HEI. The problem is the 67 Firewall just wasn’t designed with a large cap distributor in mind. It was a pain to stab it in just the right place to allow room to time it. Let alone have the heater hoses hooked up.

I’ve got a small cap accel billet unit in it now. Much happier. Though I need to clean up the wiring.