Do folks pay full price for new cars at dealers nowadays? Or, how to buy a new Jeep?
 

Hi folks,

My daughter lives in the Boston area. She wants to buy a new Jeep Wrangler. She's particular though and wants a 2 door Willys version with a manual transmission. Well. There are none to be had anywhere. Sure, loads of 4 door automatics, but 2 door? with a stick? None on any lots in New England.

So, she's gone to two dealers and told them what she wants, and they print out the options, add it up and have some sort of "MSRP". They are not willing to haggle at all. Even she realizes that paying "list" price is maybe crazy. So I tell her over the phone that maybe they only "deal" in the trade in. (shes's got a low mileage Subaru Impreza). But they low ball her there too.

I haven't bought a new car since 2003. So my questions are:
Do dealers haggle anymore?
Do you really lose all bargaining when you "order" a car?
Does most "bargaining" or haggling occur with the trade in?
Any ideas on how to calmly just pay an average price for a new Jeep without paying list price?
Thanks for any tips!

As I see it she either has to pay up,or be patient till one comes up, or change her search options.
If there’s none around most dealerships would know that and rake you over the coals IMO.
My wife wanted a new Suburban last year. She wanted some rare special order color,and the Premier package. I wanted the towing/trailering package and 4x4. None to be found within 250 miles of me over a months time looking. She finally settled for one we found in her 2nd favorite color. A run of the mill color. We ended up getting a decent deal.
I know nothing about the new Jeeps. Maybe somebody has some info to help you.

It depends on the dealer and it depends on the vehicle. Right now, because of Covid, inventory is in short supply. Jeeps should be in good supply but are in high demand, so bargaining won't be much.

A few months ago I got my wife a 2021 Kia Seltos. Brand new vehicle on the market, very limited supply, every option you can get and 1 of only 2 Cherry Black ones in NY. I got $80.00 off of sticker and they cried about that.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1602804981

Wow. Maybe haggling is getting rare due to the internet effect too? Another thing I suspect is whether the dealer would actually "order" the vehicle, or just wait and see what shows up in the pool of cars coming to the region. She sent an email to Jeep.com asking why she couldn't find the options she wanted anywhere and they basically said "go to a dealer".

I'll add this about Jeeps too: They are "hot". It's amazing how Wranglers have evolved. The option packages are crazy for Wranglers: Sport. Willys Sport, Willys, Islander, Sport S, Sahara, Unlimited, 80th anniversary, Rubicon, Altitude, Sahara Altitude.

Yeah, they're a far cry from the CJ-5's I owned. But then, to me, those are real Jeeps.

Cool. I've got a CJ3A now. No nonsense. Super fun and super not safe! (but I ain't skeered) My daughter likes Jeeps probably because I bought a Rubicon in 2003 (which I still have). She learned how to drive "stick" in that Jeep, and loved it. Now she wants her own. But boy is she ticked at the sales guys who don't seem to want to sell a Jeep that's not on the lot.

Leaf springs and solid axles for me. :D

Went through the exact same thing over the Seltos.

I have been through almost every aspect of the auto industry including owned my own dealership for 20 years and have never seen dealers do the, "take it of leave it" attitude until Covid.

I was always taught that they don't walk in the door just to kick tires, they're there to leave with a vehicle. Not any more. Customer service is SHOT

My brother handles a lot of the cars that get shipped via the rail lines at his rail yard in Rhode Island. He took a big hit in volume since the pandemic hit and the number of rail cars having automobiles from the assorted manufacturers dropped like a stone and this is one of his mainstays of his rail yard. So the slow down in auto production may play into your purchase and this might not be a good year for a new car purchase due to supply and demand.

My dad is always good at haggling for his new cars. They key is to let them know you are just looking. Never tell them you are looking to buy. When they ask you what you are looking for, then you hit them up with your wants, but seem casual about it. He says they always want to get you into the car that day, and he gives them his price range, not theirs. He tells them there are other dealers and models he is considering that are similar and wants to look at those as well so as to get his best deal, but will leave a contact number.

He says they will usually call him in a couple days and all of a sudden have a "deal" for him. He has even gone in and listened to their speech and better price offer, and tell them it's just too high, and that he found a couple other cars that looked more in his price range with the options he wanted and thanks them and leaves reminding them they still have his number if something pops up.

He says a day or two later he gets the call again to come down and then they seem to have the price down to where he wanted with a car that fit his likes.

He always get a good deal. Now he wanted a CRV (this was a number of years ago) that was a 2-wheel drive and everything was a 4-wheel drive versions. The dealership said they could get it, but it had to be ordered and coming from Japan could take a month or more to be built and then shipped overseas. He said OK, and they did build him what he wanted at the price he was willing to pay.

So you have to be indifferent and casual and not go into a dealership looking to purchase because then they know they have you because you want the car and have come in to buy.

I don't know if this is an option, but Enterprise car rentals sells their vehicles after they get some mileage on them. I have always rented from Enterprise when making long vacation trips to visit family. They have a good maintenance program and keep their cars up.

I purchased a 2015 Hyundai Accent 5-door from them with 32,000 miles. I now have 122,000 on the car with no issues. By buying from Enterprise, you get a substancial savings because it is a used car, so you don't lose that initial depreciation value. It is hard to screw up a car at 30,000 miles or less. They offered a 1 year warranty on the major drive line components and you could buy an extended warranty - which I did not get. They will give you a trade-in value for your old car. They handled all the paperwork for my loan in purchasing the car. It was an uncomplicated experience and I would purchase from them again.

I see a couple Jeeps in the inventory near you. You can even give them your wants and they will look through their entire network to see if they can find it. Depending on distance, you may have to pay transportation charges, but you are not obligated to purchase if you don't like the vehicle.

So maybe this is an option?

https://www.enterprisecarsales.com/l...=Jeep_Wrangler

First, the vehicle she is wanting is an odd ball. 2 door vs. 4 door. Manual vs. automatic. This is a very undesirable (to most) model and no dealer will have one in stock unless they have it as a 'loss leader'. Dealers don't want to order one equipped like this for fear the customer won't take it when it comes in.

She needs to figure exactly how she wants it equipped and use a site like kbb.com or edmunds.com to determine what the invoice price is. Then she needs to decide how much over invoice (if any) she is willing to pay. Finally she needs to go to a dealer, ask for the new car sales manager and tell him she what she wants to order and offer a $5,000 deposit, then negotiate the price. If she can't come to a deal simply go to another Jeep dealer. She will eventually find a dealer that will work with her.

I appreciate the comments. It's good perspective on how these dealers are doing their thing.


As far as used, well, it's so hard to find 2 door Jeeps. And manual trans too. I don't blame her. I hate automatics.



As an aside, I helped my other daughter buy a Ford Focus at an Enterprise. It was a good deal. Beautiful car. But then I found out about the infamous dual clutch automatic. And sure enough, soon it was shudder-city. She's on the 3rd clutch set. We paid for third set, but then Ford extended the warranty and we got our money back (took a looong time though). Neat car but terrible transmission. It's a shame.


Soooo, I think I'll tell my Jeep seeking daughter to be patient, and maybe visit a couple more dealers. Who knows, maybe at least one will bend a little.

I ordered my last three trucks and got a decent deal, basically same deal on all of them. First I order towards the end of the model year, usually around April. Do the legwork to find out what the invoice price is, dealer holdback etc. I usually offer $300 over invoice. Haven't been turned down yet.
I go in with a printed list of the options I want and the price I want to pay and basically just ask them yes or no. They do the "talk to the sales manager" and have always come back, shrugged their shoulders and said yes.
If I'm doing a trade in I'll negotiate that AFTER I've made a deal on the new vehicle.

When you order a vehicle the dealership has no lot costs associated with it, no advertising, no interest, no upkeep. The truck drops it off, they call me, I pick it up, they make their money. I usually order a fairly bare bones truck with just HD engine and drive train options so they realize I'm not going to be a very profitable customer regardless. They are surprisingly cooperative when you order a truck with no radio and roll up windows, rubber floors and vinyl seats. I think they realize there is no big money to be made on the deal, but no sweat for them either since they only have the vehicle in their possession for a day and it's a quick $300-1000 for them I'm sure.

Typically a six week wait for delivery. More often than not I will sell my current vehicle privately after I buy the new vehicle.

You do realize that Enterprise is a rental car company that is self-insured. Any self-insured company is not obligated to report a thing and reports to no one. Therefore, all their vehicles will come back with a clean vehicle history no matter how hard they were wrecked.

As I got better at negotiating, I switched to buying new cars - I can get ‘em cheaper than 1 y/o lease returns, I’ve found.

Everything is always negotiable. Answers to the OPs questions are:

Yes
No
It shouldn’t.

I always drive my cars until they are dead, so I never trade them in/sell them for any significant $. If you want top dollar, don’t trade your car in. Also - that is 2 separate negotiations: work on the purchase price, then work on the sale. (You should do your research on what your trade is worth, too.)

Here is my 2 cents. I currently have been working for the same dealer in the Chicagoland area for 20 years. These days as a customer you will find your best price online. Online prices are usually the lowest they will go. That being said, if you walk into the showroom and ask the price of a car, you will start at a higher price and possibly negotiate down to the internet price (I say possibly because if you dont know that price and they can make a extra couple bucks, its your loss and more profit).

Dealers get cars a on floorplan, so they dont start paying interest, etc.. for maybe 60 days or 90 days. MSRP is manufacures suggested retail price = price on window sticker. Invoice is the price the dealer pays for the car. However, there is more to it then that. There is also holdback, which is the rebate the dealer gets from the manufacture. The holdback can be different on 2 of the same cars. If one car was built January and the second in April, and you are looking at a car in May you might get a better deal on the lower VIN number built first in January.

If you have a specific option package you want, and the dealer can not find one at a local dealer that they trade cars with, you have 2 options. One they could do a national locate to see if any dealer has one, they then would have to pay money to have it transported, which you will be paying for. Or the second would be to order if its possible, and expect to pay close to sticker because for one they know you want it and cant get it and two if you back out they are stuck with it.

Always negotiate your new car price first, so you know what value you are getting on your trade in. Look at kelly blue book and expect to be on the low end of trade in value for your car. If you can sell it out right, thats going to be your best bet, but you have to find someone with cash on hand.

And you also know this applies to all manufacturers who wreck their cars in transport prior to the sale. They have a repair shop at my brother's rail road yard where they fix damaged new cars before they go to the dealership - this includes major damage rebuilds and even car fires. And they don't have to report it. Life is one big chance, isn't it?

Anyone remember Chrysler in the ‘80s?

Ford sends theirs to the Auction, usually Adesa.

I was a mechanic at a Chrysler dealer back then. What about them?

http://content.time.com/time/special...894719,00.html

The Jeep brand is Hot, Hot, Hot. So when that's the case, there won't be any deals. The Jeep Truck, Wrangler, Cherokee, all selling as fast as they can slap them together. Pandemic has barley put a dent in those model sales, at least around here. Grand Cherokee, and the Fiat based Renegade, possibly. But my experience and findings show all Chrysler products depreciate at an incredible rate, one of the reasons I own several. My wife drives a Grand Cherokee that had a 52K sticker, I purchased from the original owner 2 1/2 years old with 13k miles on it for 24K. Dealer would only give her 22K trade-in. It was like brand new. Have you considered a 2-4 year old model?

I never heard of it but it doesn't surprise me. When I worked at a Chevy dealer we have a few cars and trucks come off the car carrier with in-op speedos. Hook the cable back up, all better.

Nothing new
 

Dealers have been doing this for decades. Back in the 70's when I worked at Balch Pontiac a guy and me got sent to school and they let us use a brand new Catalina to get there. The speedometer was disconnected for the trip. :rolleyes: I also witnessed a few odometer "roll back" jobs.

If you can't find a "commodity" version of the new vehicle you are looking for, you don't have any leverage. When it's rare (desireable or not) you can't price shop it like others. I just bought a 2020 F-150 and found basically the exact same configuration (exactly the way I wanted) and bought it for $9000 under "MSRP". Had to get quotes from about 8-10 dealers first (don't have spreadsheet in front of me) and you would be amazed what the range was. 3 of them were right around the same (great) price point. Had it delivered and couldn't be happier.

Im sure there are exceptions, but from what I understand the "Internet Price" is usually the best you will get.

Its all a PITA. Talk em down on the purchase and they beat you up on your trade in.

To clarify:

If you can't find a "commodity" version of the new vehicle you are looking for, you don't have any leverage. When it's rare (desireable or not) you can't price shop it like others. I just bought a 2020 F-150 and found basically the exact same configuration (exactly the way I wanted) and bought it for $3000 under "invoice" price, $6500 under MSRP. Got quotes from 13 dealers first in a 500 mile radius and you would be amazed what the range was: 3 of them were right around this same (great) price point, all the way up to $7000 more! Had it delivered and couldn't be happier.

"Invoice" prices are a scam nowadays for manufacturers to get you to anchor to a price.

I should have used the phrase "dealer cost", for a fee there are places that provide that information along with dealer costs on various options, hold back amounts etc.

Local KIA dealers on Long Island, NY want 3 to 5 K above the sticker price for a 2021 Telluride SUV.

A PA dealer wanted $3600.00 over sticker for a Seltos like I bought when I was looking.

My exact words to him were.... "Dude, you're not selling Dodge Demons, you're selling Kias"

One thing all the Kia dealers guaranteed me, whatever I looked at today, wouldn't be there next week. They were right.

Thanks to all of you for your comments.
I had her read them too.

To finish up the story:
She went to two more dealers. They were all the same, essentially, when it came to pricing the Willys Jeep to her specifications. The "dealing" happened with the trade in. She decided to stay with one dealer who negotiated on the trade, and she got them to agree not to have to re-appraise it even though they've got to wait two months for the new Jeep to come. They just asked her to keep the mileage reasonable and she agreed. She commented that alot of the salesman seemed lazy and not knowledgeable about the "product".

I was surprised to get a call one day last week...she was in a dealers finance office and she just wanted to run the numbers by me and she was ready to sign. I was proud of her for doing this deal by herself.
So, she's happy and I think she did alright.

Thanks,
Dave

Couple comments feel free to share with her. I think it is just great that she had a plan, knew exactly what she wanted for her vehicle, and stayed on course to make it happen. She didn't settle or buckle under to dealer pressure to buy something shiny they had right on the lot. That tells me she is a car person! She also spent the time to probably know more about the product than anyone she was in contact with at the dealer. As a woman, that has to make her feel great knowing she has knowledge and power to make this expensive transaction on her terms. Congratulations.