Dry deck water passages
 

Hey all, looking for recommendations, for water routing on a dry deck engine.
This is a RAV head that is dry decked and I have decided to dry deck the block to take advantage of those benefits.
I can tap the rear engine freeze plugs and run to the back of the heads, by tapping those freeze plugs.
But figuring others have done this many times figured I would ask what has worked and any advice on parts to use.
Thanks in advance Rich

Can I ask why you want to run a dry deck? Its not necessary in most applications imo. However, if u choose to, there are several options but tapping a freeze plug would not be on my list of options..

There is not much choice as the heads were done years ago.
To not run RAV because they were dry decked, really does not not much sense. do not get the opportunity to run full race RAV too many times in my life, so just looking for the best advice on the way to proceed.
If you would like more details on this one off build, I would be glad to share.
But dry decking has already been done before they where in my hands, so no real choice to go other

Sounds like an interesting build. Do share some more info with us please.

Ok, here goes, if you read the Pontiac racers handbook, there is a page that talks about the Batton heads. These are RAV heads with modified exhaust to straighten the exhaust path.
Super heads that were ported and eventually leaked water. Lee ran these at Norwalk and hydro locked on his supercharged ta.
So I have them, looked at them for a year. My son said let’s race them aspirated. I said sounds cool!
I sent them out and had them furnace welded and they are now fixed.
We are going to run a GME block with butler short block kit, with two fours to stay carbureted.
Serious build I guess with 800 lift.
Just looking for advice on cooling with dry decking, the rest is near done.

My IA-II block has holes drilled and tapped in the back of the block. From those holes there were hoses run up to the rear of the heads. Are you thinking of threading the freeze plug holes or drilling the freeze plugs and putting fittings in the freeze plugs?

Yes that is my initial thought, but willing to go other ways if I see something that will work better. How do you like your set up and how does it function?

OK that’s cool. I have never done a dry deck system myself so any input I would have would just be assumed. Maybe tig weld half-inch npt bungs to new plugs but after you install the plugs I would make sure that maybe some sort of locking technique is used so the freeze out plugs have to stay in place. Also I remember reading a few threads were the guys would crisscross the cooling for better overall cooling. Maybe to help stop hot spots? Hopefully somebody can chime in that has real experience. Pictures are fun to see too.

Just in case you dont know,dont put over 80lb TQ on the lower center head bolts.All other 100 is OK.Tom

I didnt run it that way. I bought the motor in pieces. It was already done. I opened up the water holes in the block as this will see street miles and I didnt want to run dry deck on the street.
As mentioned above with criss crossing the lines I think that just makes the plumbing easier. Going straight to the head from the block is a short run in braided hose and can be hard to make the curve. ( just a thought )

Hey thanks guys did I not know about the center torque numbers I would love
To know
More about that also, anything to advise is appreciated

Funny I was just gonna start a similar thread. However I’m using an IAll block and it’s already threaded in the rear.

Boosted Pontiac’s should have a dry deck.....heads lift under boost, the 8740 studs suck.....we need better!


GTO George

MANY V heads have cracked in that area,does not hurt the performance but they leak some water.Nunzi gave me that tip years ago.I have owned 3 sets that had one of the heads a leaker.One on my 428 was,had it repaired and still weeped a touch until I put the GM block sealer thru it.Tom

The IA2 block we run in the Fairmont, linked below, is reverse cooled. Race only and it was done to cool the heads first since it's a 1000+ hp nitrous application. The block is run dry deck with no water cooling passages into the heads. It uses a remote mounted Meziere 55gpm electric water pump. The water travels out the front of the engine, thru a fixture that eliminates the block mounted water pump, into the front of the heads, out the back of the heads into the block, which has water passage provisions for it in the rear of the block, then thru the block back to the front. The remote electric water pump is located on the lower outlet of the radiator. Running the engine without plugging the heads with the nitrous it would seep water into the cylinders. Cometic makes a gasket that is solid with no water holes.


.

I have bought better studs and so far they seem to be holding up, heads are not coming off after racing the full season in 2020!



GTO George

Thanks, I do have a IA 2 that is dry decked also. I am really having fun on this project and any thoughts or comments are appreciated.

I ran reverse cooled dry deck system on my factory iron head & block 421 turbo combo, all the block and head cooling holes are drilled and tapped for npt allen head plugs, and I have o ring /receiver groove/solid copper head gaskets and a 3/4 filled block.. Using a Summit SBC 55 gpm electric water pump- water is sucked into the pump from radiator bottom, then gets pumped through AN10 braided hoses into the manifold water cross over and out of the rear heater core plug holes (I made threaded ali plugs that were a press fit into the core plug holes to take 1/2" npt fittings). The electric pump has the normal outlet holes blocked with a .125" thick steel plate that doubles as a mounting bracket, and the ali pump body has two holes drilled and tapped for 1/2" npt fittings.
Water is then routed through AN10 braided hoses from the heads to the rear sides of the block - holes drilled and tapped here for 1/2" npt at the cylinders 7 & 8. Water flows through the block and out of holes drilled for 1/2" npt fittings in the front of the block, about 1 1/2" below the decks, the heated water then flows into a Moroso water neck/thermostat housing and back into the top of the radiator. I
I fitted a AN6 hose from the top of the electric pump to the standard bypass hole on the front of the water crossover, this bleeds air out as the cooling system is filled (along with cycling the pump on/off too).
It worked fine up the the 1000 hp level I was at for racing use.
For my new 427 ali E heads/factory block turbo combo ,I have changed the system slightly as I will be using the car for 25 mile street cruises and power should be around 1400 hp. I now have four water outlets on the same electric pump and feed the heads and block as two separate cooling systems - all water converging in the Moroso water neck before returning to the radiator as before. (So basically - two water entries and two water exits in the heads, and another two water entries and two water exits in the block, all AN10).

I have no.10 lines on my Coolant lines from the back of the heads to the back of the block. I also cross my lines for easier plumbing. My block has pipe plugs in it, my heads are welded up.I’ve been running a dry deck since 2007. What fuel are you going to run? If I were you I would use e85.


GTO George

I also think the block holes should be plugged with aluminum plugs to help with the seal as aluminum expands more the cast iron. JMO


GTO Geoy

Hi George

Happy New Year!

Taff2, very informative and a great set up, believe I will try to be close to your setup.
Gorge I have ordered aluminum plugs that should be thick enough to tap, if not I can tig.
Thanks for the info, I will definitely try the reverse cooling as I think it will be more efficient.
The dream hp on this thing is 880 on a two four setup, lofty goal I know lol. We will start with c-16 on this one and move from there, have had great luck using this with a small mix on the supercharged car.

Something also to consider is the price of fuel....e85 is around $2 a gallon!
My buddy who has a 555 cubed 8 sec Vega is thinking about switching.

GTO George

I have heard of great results with it, and the C-16 is not cheap! We are using two vintage Holley carbs to start with keeping the outside theme as an engine that would have ran in the seventies. But inside everything is what we expect these days, so it’s just a bluff.

I love nostalgia cars, I run carbs for the same reason as opposed to electronic fuel injection.
E85 doesn’t change the look of the carbs and is allowed in nostalgia races.

GTO George

Any reason why a dry deck setup wouldn’t work with a factory water pump?

Should work!
Mostly though dry decks equals race car hence the electric water pump.




GTO George

It will work, but it won't be reverse cooled- you would still be pumping water through the block first.
Regarding fuel, we can't get E85 over here at the pumps, only race E85 in cans,and it's pretty expensive. I have used Toluene for well over 15 years to make my own race fuel, I use it at 20% with 80% pump fuel (gas)to make a C16 quality race fuel for not much more than what I have to pay for low octane pump fuel.
And it flat out works flawlessly. I've turned on all my mates to it ,and we actually sell it as a race fuel concentrate and octane booster.

Street car/ F/C tow vehicle 😁

My turbo setup is a dry deck with a reverse cooled and uses a SBC mechanical water pump setup. I bought a Billet timing cover that lets u use the SBC WP.

I have one also (KRE), also with a SBC electric water pump.


GTO George

Nice GTO George. I was going to put an inline Stewart pump but I didn't have any room due to pipes everywhere from this Turbo setup.

For those that mentioned tapping the core holes in a factory block, can you share the size they were drilled out to? 2 inch pipe seems large at this point compared to the core hole? Kind of curious how this was accomplished, the holes are a bit of an off size.

I drilled and tapped holes in the block wall to use 1/2"NPT to AN10 adapter fittings - I didn't thread the core plug holes-far too big.

I took Taffs advise on this same subject when I was putting my motor together some years ago. It works.