HFT lifter odd
 

Cam break in was perfect, started first turn of key, never idled, all lifters/pushrods were turning.....

Had to take the intake and valley off for something after break in and just wanted to take the lifters out to look at them for chits and giggles.

Just this one has this small circle pattern on the foot. Completely smooth.

All lifters are NOS GM on a Melling 066. Everything stock including springs.

Is it of any concern?

It’s really hard to say if that’s ok as I have never seen such before !
The main thing it that the lifter bottom is still convex and that it was spinning with just as much rotation as the other lifters are.

If it starts it’s spin later or ends it sooner during a valve cycle, then something with that lifter and or Cam lobe is not well,

Lifters are cheap why take a chance buy a new lifter and put a new one in. It looks to me like maybe a factory defect. Take a good look at the cam lobe and make sure nothing is up with that. If the cam lobe looks OK put a new lifter in and be done with it.

Please let us know if lifter still has the convex bottom (domed out in the center). Alternative findings would be a flat lifter bottom or a cupped lifter bottom.

It does. The lobe this lifter is from has a questionable spot on it too. Don't know if its a factory defect or what. I will try to get a pic and describe.

There is an ever so slight raised area that runs across the width of the corresponding lobe that lifter was on.

I can barely feel it with my finger but it's there.

This has to be a defect in the machining of the lobe.......can't imagine this being there due to some kind of failed break in, especially since it runs width wise.

All other lobes and lifters are perfect and free from any abnormalities.

I'd be ordering a new cam and new lifters.
 

It's WAY too much work to do all this over if you don't fix it right this time.

Good luck!

It's a good thing that you caught this before you have total lifter and lobe failure so be happy about that. The unhappy part is you now have to replace the cam and lifters. Depending on how long that cam has been in you might try to get the cam company send you a new cam and lifters because this sure looks like a factory defect.

Total run time less than an hour, half hour break in then maybe half hour tune.

Unfortunately, it was bought a year ago and I think I misplaced the receipt.

New cam and lifters already on the way. :-ohwell:

Is the circle on the lifter bottom in the metal, or is there some lube residue making it look worse than it is? I've seen circular wear patterns on lifter bottoms before, but never one that looked like that.

The mark on the cam lobe looks like the beginning of the clearance ramp. There'd be little spring pressure there.

It's in the metal but it's pretty smooth as in can't catch a nail or feel it.......

It'd take a real act of will-power for me to not put it back together and RUN IT.

Looks to me kind of like a tiny piece of grit got momentarily embedded in the lobe and left a trace on the lifter. Probably something dislodged out of the valley pan?

Looks like the lifter didn't follow the cam lobe all around?

I would put a new lifter in and button it all back up.

You have a new Cam & lifters on the way now, but purchasing one more new one will not break the bank I hope, and you can then return the new Cam and lifters for a refund.

It's just too iffy that the bottom of the lifter does not have more casting flaw issues in it that with added run time would chew up what is a good Cam lobe now .

My thought too.........just wondering if that's a good idea or not.


I agree, and you can see some small debris scuffs on either side of that flaw.

Amen. Its for that reason that I would have never looked at them in the first place. Ignorance is bliss and all that.

As the LS guys say, "Never look at your cam bearings!"

Do the other lobes have that ridge across the lobe?

Is that as Ken asked a ridge, or something due to the Camera shot or angle, because in one picture you have there are two ridges to be seen?

No. All other lobes are perfect.

The light refection makes it appear that there are more than one ridge but there is only one. It's there, I can feel it slightly.

I value eveyone's input and appreciate the comments. I am a bit surprised that some say stick it back in and run it. Believe me that's what I prefer to due not because of the cost of a new cam and lifters, but because I will have to do another break in which I hate doing. This break in went great as all the other lobes and lifters look real nice.

I can run it as is and it may very well be ok for tens of thousands of miles........or it can get worse and fail in a thousand miles or maybe a hundred?

I have learned in the past in these instances that if something doesn't look right it probably isn't. I am leaning towards replacing the cam/lifters unless someone wants to talk me out of it :p

Well, on my engine startup last year with all the right parts, Melling 068, Hylift lifters, right oil etc. Had a couple of lifters that were not turning consistently after about 20 minutes. No real damage apparent, some scuffing on the suspect lifters .... ehhh, had it apart for the inspection, figured a new cam was about $100, had a set of NOS Pontiac lifters .... thought what the heck, put them in and try again. Next time things went right.

Who knows, original setup might have been fine. But to try again was maybe $250 in parts and the opportunity to take even more care in assembly, so why not.

For what it's worth, I checked the face of all the lifters for perpendicularity with the lifter body in a metal lathe, and the NOS Pontiac were the best with no measureable run-out, the US made Mellings (some are not) a very, very close second, and contrary to most people's experience the Johnson Hylifts were the worst of the bunch.

Not a topic to start here but I have my own theory about common HFT failures these days, I think it's mostly due to improper cam lobe taper, lifter face crown machining or a mismatch between the two. They HAVE to work together, and lobe tapers vary cam to cam, and crown height/radius varies lifter to lifter, they don't all work with each other. Almost certainly NOT pertinent to your issue as you state yours were all turning nicely, which is a good indicator of well matched lobes and lifters.

See attached photo. A couple of Hylifts from the cylinder I was having problems with, images make them look way worse than they were, there was no detectable surface flaw in the lifter face other than visually. Does the pattern on one of the lifters look familiar? That was the "slow" turner, the bar pattern on the other ... that was the NO turner ... (unless I grabbed the pushrod while it was running and helped it along). Personally I was not that concerned about the one with the circular pattern, I was concerned about the one with the "bar" pattern, not good. Images make it look like there was heat discoloration, there was NOT on either lifter, just trick of the light.

See how the wear on the lifter with the bar pattern is perfectly centered on the lifter face with an ring of no contact around the outer edge. If the taper and crown match perfectly there should have been contact almost all the way to the very edge of the lifter face, that proper offset contact is what keeps the lifter turning. On the other "slow" turning lifter you also see that ring of no contact on the lifter face.

I'm by no means a cam/lifter expert of any kind, but I would say these lifters indicate a lifter with too much crown, or a cam with too little taper which did not present enough offset contact area to keep the lifters turning consistently. But again, that's just a theory, not supported by any measurements I have taken.

Again, probably not that applicable to your situation, but interesting none the less :)

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...6&d=1615179942

If by any chance you are doubting the lifters you used. Here is the TOTAL runout of the typical GM NOS lifters I checked. Why do I care? Ever see a pushrod that makes one turn and stops, then you give a twist by hand and it makes one turn and stops etc.? If the face is not perpendicular the bore that's what it will do as the offset contact point doesn't provide enough motivation for the lifter to climb the "high" point of the non-perpendicular face.

This not the starting picture ... this is the maximum runout I could find.

Forget what the crown was .. but I remember they were very, very consistent.

I also noted that the NOS GM lifter had a very pronounced chamfer on the face edge compared to the others (the Melling have the second largest), presenting a very smooth contact point to the lobe, unlike the sharp edges I have seen on many aftermarket lifters.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...7&d=1615180930

Here is the picture that was supposed to be included in the last post.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...9&d=1615229665