New engine budgeting
 

We have the engine in our ‘67 LeMans running pretty good. Probably as good as it gets. But it seems to be a tired old engine and we can tell that it won’t be our last engine. That being said, if we do replace it, I would like to have a really good engine that will be reliable, have decent performance, and last for a while.
I’ve been looking locally and there’s not much, except for a million companies looking to rebuild our existing engine. But I would seriously like to just buy an engine and drop it in.
How much should I budget for a new Pontiac (400) motor. It may be rebuilt, but as much new as possible. The parameters are: not a choppy barn burner of an engine. I’d like as much power as possible, but not to sacrifice a decent idle and driveability. Close to stock with whatever performance upgrades are reasonable. I don’t mind filling up with the best gas available. It is a hobby after all. I have not been able to find prices on the net, but I’m thinking that something from a company like Butler would be great. Just a long block, we have the intake and everything else.

Lots of mentions of Len Williams.

http://www.lenwilliamsautomachine.com

Seems like a good candidate for a Len Williams long block.

Since there's no core required on his engines, that means you can purchase while your current engine is in service. Then when you receive the engine and the timing is right, spend a weekend doing an R&R. There's no real down time, unless you want there to be.

His pricing is beyond reasonable as well.

Another fan of Len Williams. Turn key, reliable, reasonable , no hassles. He's been around doing this for decades and has a great reputation.

Excuse me if you will for my comment here on your post , but you have what sounds like a original 54 year old motor in your 1967 car that you say runs pretty good, and then you continue to say that you hope that a rebuilt motor will last a while, lol!

Let me say that you should not fret , because today’s parts ( other then some brand lifters) are a good amount better then what they where back when your 1967 motor was new, and also oil in general today offers better protection then iit did 54 years ago to boot!

A well built motor that gets normal care and is built on a aged ( used ) block should last many years longer then your current 54 year old motor, the only long term issue looks like trying to find drop one of Gas in another 25 years unfortunately!

Also note that cost wise if you have a 326 in the car now, and even if the car has A/C your going to need to step up to a bigger radiator to handle a 400 and it would be very wise to up grade size wise the likely 5/16” fuel line that the car is currently running on.

Steve, the engine in his car is not original, it's a 400, he did get the original when he bought the car.

Only thing about him getting a Len Williams engine is, Len being in Oklahoma, car owner being in Canada...

I would want at least a 400 in his car. A nice running 400 is way cool!!! Runs nice, still gets acceptable MPG....my choice....

Just step up to forged rods. He recondition the 50 year old rods. But as other said prices are great and he been do it for a long time

AND there's no core charge!!!

I'm not sure stepping up to the forged rods doesn't constitute feature creep based on what the OP wants.

There's certainly nothing wrong with the upgrade, but the above desire doesn't constitute a need for them.

Wow that's great. Just what I'm looking for. Thanks, Guys.

x2 on Len Williams. I took a period correct, but rusted badly complete engine (66 389) to him, he returned a complete "new" engine to me. Due to my own issues I do not have much run time on it, but I could not be happier with the service he provided.

Just a thought.....

Do you have any friends in the states, that you could have a Len Williams engine shipped to, then go there and pick it up?? to save money...maybe?

I live in Oklahoma, but am on the other side of Len.....

Ya, we’re resigned to the fact that shipping will be a large added cost. Not to mention the exchange. But it’s all good.
That price is by far the best that I’ve seen out there. Especially with 385 horsepower. I showed the link to my son and he wants to order right now. So I’ll probably reach out to them to get the ball rolling. Thanks again.

The issue right now is the border is still closed to non-essential travel. There are a few good builders in Ontario and probably 100x as many that say they are good.

Ernie, THanks!

To me, one of the most difficult things to do, is finding a legit machine shop/engine builder close by where I live. My engine builder is a friend, had some unusual life set backs hit him, he moved to the Tulsa area, and only tunes racing stuff now. I know of another, but he stays REAL busy, and lost his wife last summer.

Hopefully the border will be opened, soon!!!

edit: sent you a pm

I'm not recommending him since I have no personal experience, but I've been following videos from Nick's Garage in Montreal; he mainly works on Mopars but he seems to be pretty knowledgeable on other makes as well. He'll be starting a Pontiac rebuild in the next few weeks that may be worth watching, if nothing else for educational purposes. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKx...YGFQcY11cJGNtA

I agree with several people who posted aftermarket connecting rods were not needed for the OP's goals. A set of OE cast rods, properly reconditioned with new hardware, is just fine for this application. In fact, I would prefer those to some of the cheap Chinese forged rods that need to be resized before you can use them anyway.

The 421 HO in my 62 GP has rebuilt 69 casts rods and 068 cam.No regrets.Tom

^That's what I'm talkin about^



Frank

Close to home in Can $

We have a good Pontiac builder here in Edmonton....He has built street and racing engines for my self and friends here in the province. I don't know what it would cost to ship from Alberta to Ontario but it would be a hell of a lot easier than trying to get across the border. It is expensive so be prepared for price shock. Most of the internals come from the States and after currency exchange and brokerage, your butt will be sore.
My last engine cost about 12K Canadian. I supplied the block, heads (they need rebuilding) intake and he did the rest. I also put in a forged crank, hyd roller cam and Hyd roller lifters with good Harland Sharp rockers. This was a good 2K extra. As you want a stock rebuild it is unnecessary to go to that level. If you want EFI, expect to add 5K to the cost once the dust settles.
Call Marty or Gene at PROMAX performance. www.promaxperformance.com.

Thanks for these tips, guys. It all helps. There's a couple of engines on the local sites as well. A guy has one near me, but you know, I just can't get myself to lay down 8-10,000.00 for an unknown. If anyone knows him, let me know.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-...3721?undefined

I spoke with Len Williams yesterday. He seemed like a great guy, very knowledgeable, friendly and engaging. He presently has a 5-6 month lead time. Mostly due to supply chain issues. I can relate. I've got long leads on many items for my hospital project, from the lab furniture to wall protection.

If I carried Len's engine price and a high shipping quote, it would work out to a little over 8000.00CDN. There's no duties on engines or engine parts from the States to Canada. So we'll see. He only wants a 50% deposit, so going his way seems easier all the time.

I also wanted to mention that shipping virtually anything between Canada and the US is as seamless as it always has been. Your customs broker takes care of the whole kit and caboodle for about 100.00. Delays not withstanding.

I missed this thread somehow. I’m down the 401 outside London. So 2 hrs apart. Have a excellent guy here who does it all . He built mine and I’m very happy. Sent him several Pontiac friends builds and all worked out great.
He Dynos every engine he does for a extra cost but u know what your getting in terms of tune and know real power numbers.
It’s hard to do any good build economically , the details add up. I think your in the ball park of 8 k plus.
PM me if you want any more details.

I guess that I would have to call for specs, but that looks like a monster of a motor.
A big consideration for me is the streetability of the engine that we need. Our LeMans relies heavily on Vacuum for the power brakes, the operation of the controls and such for the AC, and the cruise control.
So to determine the viability of an engine like this one that is advertised, I guess that the first question would be about the camshaft? Are there any other factors that would affect vacuum? I also do not want too lumpy of an idle.

I have some friends that own a small trucking company (yes, here in Oklahoma, although east of Oklahoma City, but still not that far from Len). Let me know if something gets in the works with Len....

I watch Nick's Garage too... You know, back in the day he worked at a Pontiac shop too. He knows Pontiacs almost as well as Mopar.

Whoa, if Len Williams offers up the quality the others say, that's a great deal for the average Ponty enthusiast. I spent $7k alone on engine shop labor/ a few parts/stand break in etc so that's a killer deal.

Len has been AROUND for a long time. Does quality work on mostly production type engines but can build other engines.

OP sounds like a Production engines is what he wants and Len has all of that process figured out many years ago.

ANOTHER VOTE for Len Williams.

Tom V.