Vintage Air install question
 

So Im considering a VA Surefit kit for my 67 Firebird.

Normally I do most of my work myself, but I have zero interest in this particular job. Contacted a local shop who said that vintage air probably had a standard install time. They would charge me that number as a flat rate @ $110 per hour.

I thought that sounded pretty good until I got an email back from Vintage Air saying to expect 20-25 hours. Does that sound right? I was expecting more like 10-12 hours for a professional aftermarket shop.

For $1000 I was pretty happy to let someone else do it. For 2500+? That starts to sour me some on farming it out. I was even planning on buying it all through CVF and buying a serpentine kit with it to make it as easy as possible.

For those of you who have done it before or even better, shop pros who have installed multiple, whats the average time for one of the Surefit systems?

Semms excessive for an experienced shop, maybe it's an estimate for a hobbyist/newbie.

There is this...

https://www.camaros.net/threads/vint...nstall.154251/

Yeah, IDK, I didnt think it would take someone in a shop that long to do it.

Im not exactly a detail oriented person and I really wanted a clean install. Im more the type of dude whos gauges all work, but you can see the ugly wiring behind them. Thats why i wanted to farm it out. But the labor costs are making me rethink it. I might call them and offer $1500 in labor. See what they say. Much more than that and I really think about all the other cool aftermarket parts I could buy.

Yeah, 20-25 hours seems a bit excessive to me as well, but who knows. Maybe they are factoring in removal of the hood and fender to access the outer cowl and all the time needed for panel alignment.:noidea:

I will soon be installing the VA SureFit in my GTO and I was planning to do the labor myself. It won't be fun, but there's a lot of things that I can buy with the money saved from not paying for installation labor.

Is that estimate supposed to include routing AC ducting (if non-AC car)? Picking at straws...

No idea. Like I said I think I may call the shop and offer them a labor number I am comfortable with. Probably $1500. If they want it, great, if not, no hard feelings. Even that number is high and I would kinda be relieved if they told me no.

FWIW the shop told me that they would go with whatever VA said. Its VA that is being high on me here lol.

Its depressing because when the shop told me that I would be flat rated at $110 an hour I was happy. That was thinking it would be 10 hours though.

I like your approach of offering a number and leaving it at that. Not all projects are cut & dry with regard to billing. Some are more flat rate, and others can stay hourly. I don't know anyone who would pay $2750 (25hrs @ $110/hr) before taxes and incidentals to have A/C installed.

I've put a few in. I'm happy charging $1,000 + supplies.

I have installed AC kits on new and old cars. It all depends on how much fabrication is involved and how neat a job you want. I haven't done any old car kits where the duct work fit worth a damn. I have always had to fab defroster ducts using part of the original, part of the kit and part I had to make myself. If you want a neat job usually the harness they supply will have to be modified too. To do the job right you either have the tools to make the hoses or you have to take them somewhere to have them crimped. The patches for the firewall need to be sealed when installed, left to dry and then painted. All this takes time. The better you want the finished product the more time it will take. Remember it's not their car so the only incentive the shop you hire has to do a quality job is money.

Thats the number I was expecting honestly.


As far as cost vs quality, that is a fair point. However, I would point out that if I decided to do it at home to save money, I dont have custom hose equipment either. So based on equipment, my version of the install is probably the by the manual lowest common denominator. So even if I got a shop to do it at a reasonable cost and they do a strict by the instructions install, it in theory would be at least equal to what I would do.

The only snags I think that would require some thinking is, Im guessing we would have to remove and reinstall my transmission cooler, and my fuel regulator is mounted to the passenger inner fender. So maybe slightly reroute that.

You can use the reusable Aeroquip fittings, or the Vintage Air EZ-Clip ones, clip plyers are required (not that expensive, buy the Aeroquip one), but if you want to use the crimp style, look up a hyd shop in your area, they will crimp them for you.

Vintage Air EZ-Clip fittings on Summit:

https://www.summitracing.com/search?...%20hose%20ends

Aeroquip EZ-Clip Fittings on Summit:

https://www.summitracing.com/search?...quip%20EZ-Clip

Vintage Air also has an assortment of pre-made hardlines too, as well as ones you bend:

https://www.vintageair.com/hose-kits...gerant%20Lines

You have to buy a line kit either way, you can just pay the difference and get the EZ-Clip line kit (It's about $200 more than the regular kit, but you save on install costs):

https://www.vintageair.com/hose-kits...at3=Hose%20Kit

It's really not a difficult project, a DYI-er can do it, there's really no 'custom' work involved, unless you want to deviate from the way the kit is designed to install.

Walk through the instructions, it's step by step, and has pics to guide you.

I used hard lines for some of the heater runs, it cleaned things up nice. I also used a bulkhead manifold, and depending on body, you may want to run the lines in a different route. Most f-body people choose the inline 4-port manifold, you can just drill the holes thru the firewall, maybe even the block off plate (pic is with a smoothy plate, but you get the idea).

Manifold:

https://www.amazon.com/LOSTAR-Alumin...0310955&sr=8-4

There's YouTube vids of installs you can use a reference, too.

Might take you a little longer than a shop, but the money you save, and the satisfaction of doing it yourself is priceless.

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Unhook the regulator and lay it to the side, then remove the inner fenderwell. Run the A/C and heater lines behind the inner fenderwell/fender. After you reinstall the fenderwell, put the regulator back where it was.

You can look at my Judge build thread for ideas, but there are plenty of references out there to follow.


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If you decide to do it yourself you can take your time and do a much neater job. I had the hoses for one of the kits crimped at a local AC shop and they only charged me $25 for all the hoses. I redid an Old Air install that another shop did. It blew cold air but that's about all it did. It came with 2 sections of wire harness. One with a 20 amp fuse and one with a 30 amp fuse. They connected them together and connected them both to a 15 amp fuse in the fuse panel. The hole in the firewall for the wiring looked like they made it with a hammer and chisel. All the extra wire was bunched up in a corner under the dash. Some of the outlets for the duct work were taped over and all the ducts had to be redone. Don't under estimate your work. You would NOT do that to your own car.

I'm getting ready to do a VA install on my '71 bird, will use the inline manifold, and will keep the OE fresh air ducts, using non-AC kick panels. I prefer it that way.

VA did have some issues with the defrost adapters, no way they fit good, and I too used my OEs and modified. But that was not a surefit setup. The surefit setups generally have good adapters and other items.

I have a friend right now pulling his defrost duct adapters out of his kit he just got for a '68, he will send me info on those so I can share.


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67-68 camaro/firebird evap kit install video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjDquAIynWQ

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I spent about 50 hours doing the Surefit VA kit on my car but that included quite a bit of work upgrading the dash and gauges and installing a stereo. I think 20-25 hours is spot-on and am happy that I was able to save that labor cost by doing it myself.

Thanks guys. Lot of good stuff here. Ill order a kit soon and see what shakes out. I think Im going to order a serpantine kit too so I may just order the whole thing from CVF. Unless someone knows where to get a significant discount on them. The kit seems about $1500 across the board.

I just finished installing a vintage air in my 69 firebird. It was a big job. For me, all the hoses were the right length and had the ends crimped on.

I didn't keep track of how many hours I spent on it, but it was a couple of weekends... definitely more than 10 hours. It is a nice piece of kit. Blower is strong and the air comes out nice and cold (or hot, depending on what you want.) All the hoses run up through the fender, so it looks very sanitary once installed.

Did you take pics along the way you can share? Pics I have are not really relevant, mine are diff body styles.

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Looks like the only two pictures I took were of the controls conversion. Those are attached.

The car is mostly back together now, but I can take pictures of any other areas you're interested in.

I've never messed with AC before. But, I did replace my old system on my 72 Lemans and it came out nice. It was from Old Air and was basically a direct fit replacement. I hade hoses crimped at a parts house. You can do it. And say so with pride!

Just a heads-up, I'm pretty sure that regardless of who you buy your Vintage Air kit through, it will be drop-shipped directly from the manufacturer, and there is a 6-8 week minimum wait before they even ship. I ordered my VA SureFit system on March 9 and have not received it yet, although I was told it would be shipped yesterday (no word on that yet).

Just want to let you know so you can think about your project timing.

I ordered mine from Summit Racing on 5/3, and got it yesterday on 5/7.

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Lol, that's good to know! I ordered mine through OPGI. If I don't get my VA kit in the next few weeks, I'm going to cancel the order and buy elsewhere.

I've been ordering a lot of other parts through Summit over the past few weeks, and I have to say their order processing and shipping speed has been incredible.

I've put about 5 Vintage Air units in GTO's and Firebirds over the years. I'd say you'll easily spend 20 hours doing. I personally won't do one for less than $1500 labor

Summit has one in stock:


EDIT: Break the kit up by evap kit, condensor kit, and hose kit, all are in stock. The 'full' kits are backordered.

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When I checked shops most everyone quoted 30 hours for full install.... and depending if you work with fender on or off will add even more time.

Lotta work.

Had help on mine and it took a lot of time.

Va install
 

I'm putting a surfeit kit into my 66 Lemans right now and I think it would take a experience tradesman around a day and a half to 2 days.

Don't want to hijack Rocktimus' thread, but on the topic of VA installation, although the SureFit kits do not come with an electric pusher fan for the condenser, is that something that I/we should plan on buying and installing as well? I also bought a 140A alternator.

OE fan or any electric radiator fan is fine. There's no need for a separate fan for the condenser.

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Great, thanks. One less thing to purchase!

Also, as an aside, my SureFit kit finally arrived in the mail yesterday, which is a relief.

On the same note, because Im considering buying electric fans. On the fence.

How much will adding the condenser set cooling back? Mine has been pretty good since I put in the high volume pulleys with the mechanical fan.

Condenser does block some air flow, but I would say it may impact temps by at most 5 degrees or so.

Remember, OE had AC from the factory, so this isn't something that's 'abnormal'.

Also keep in mind the newer cores are more efficient, too.


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I installed the surefit kit in my 69 LeMans over the winter. I would say 20-25 hours is accurate. I liked the kit and think the install went well. My car was an original air car but I smoothed the fire wall years ago so I did not need the firewall plate. First time my car has had heat or air since the late 80's and I love it.

I'll add another 2 quotes I got for my 69 GTO, both respected and experienced Vintage install shops said expect around 25 hours @ $125hr. Doing the duo heater and ac requires the dash to come out I guess so that's a big part of it.

If you do this and need dash restoration etc, might wanna plan that into this while it's out. That's why I think I'll wait a couple years and do both at once.

See I dont think that is the case with the Firebird kit though.

Yeah, dash removal doesn't apply to my '66 GTO, either. Sounds like it depends on the car model and year.

I did not remove the dash on my 69 LeMans. It was a little tight behind the guage cluster but I didn't have to remove anything.

I've had the VA Sure Fit for my 69 Bird on the shelf for over a month and plan to tackle soon so I may pick your brain. Did you remove the p-side fender? Also, did it make a difference in your stop and go engine temps? Electric or mechanical cooling fan.