Question about 041 Cam
 

I just joined the forum. I've received good information here in the past, thank you .

I own a 1979 Pontiac Trans Am with a 1967 Pontiac 428HO tripower engine, TH400 transmission and Gear Vendors overdrive, B&M shifter, working air induction, Herb Adams suspension, posi-traction with 4 wheel disc brakes, roll bar throughout the cab, trunk and motor compartment, never raced. There is more, but that should be enough to give people an idea what I have so they may help me with this decision.

The question is, I pulled out the worn used cam but I liked the way it worked. Not knowing better I put in the Melling #8 (or Pontiac 041) cam. The vehicle has top end performance in the upper range. I would like to bring the power range back where it is useful as a weekend driver. The original cam number is 524886, and even though this cam was worn out and I was bending a push rod at 130 mph because the rocker bolt was split and I had just got this second hand project in a non running form, I liked the way it would get up to say 90 mph and launch to 120 mph and then slowly get to 130 mph. It is the perfect cam. The secondaries, kick down, cam and converter all worked as Pontiac invented it.

Back to the 041 cam. I had delusions of grandeur that I wanted to have the upper end speed over and above 130 mph. I then learned the Cooper GT tires are only rated to 80 mph, so over a four year period, running at times up to 130 mph the tires one by one would separate from the misuse I inflicted on them. I am now back to earth and grounded in the fact that this air conditioned vehicle is never going to race on the salt flats. I now have the 041 cam installed and broken in, and I am trying a Comp Cams timing chain set that is adjustable at the crank. I installed the 041 cam a few years ago straight up as Melling said to, and it runs as it should.

I have the option to advance the cam timing 8 degrees at the crank and at the cam it will be 4 degrees. Please keep in mind I took this project on 7 or 8 years ago, and it's been 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. In my reading I've learned that one can bring the high end power range within a cam back from the top end to the lower end to launch the vehicle as if I were racing. Each advance degree would be equal to about 500 rpm of the power range, so 4 degrees will be moving the power range back 2000 rpm in average terms (500 rpm x 4 degrees at the cam).

Please don't quote me on this, because I am depending on memory of what people write. I am trying to discern who is telling the truth compared to who is knowledgeable or not, and who is speculating. First and foremost, before I start this motor with the cam advanced as much as I stated, I must know if it is safe and that I will not hurt the motor? Secondly, I am figuring that the intake has 230 degrees duration at 0.050" and the power range is from 2500 rpm to 6000 rpm. The exhaust is 240 degrees duration and the power range is between 3000 and 6500 rpm. The intake peaks at 3500 rpm and the exhaust peaks at 4000 rpm.

This is what I learned over the net: the 041 cam in my 4000 lb vehicle moves in a steady acceleration from stand still to top end and just goes like it will pass 130 mph, but there is no jaw dropping fun with the. the original 524886 cam could not exceed 120 mph, as it fell on its face after throwing me back in my seat between 90 mph and 120 mph. I thought about replacing the 041 cam with one that has the same specs as the original. I like the duration of the 014 cam, plus the lift is 0.470 using 1.5 rocker ratio. Since the 428ci engine can handle the 041 better than a 400ci engine, I might as well try the advance trick.

This new Comp Cam timing chain set can be set to 1-2-3-4-degrees at the cam and that's 2-4-6-8- degrees at the crank. Presently i am at 4 degrees at the cam. Will I be overdoing the cam timing or can I hurt the engine by over-advancing the timing chain using 4 degrees advance without installing a set of 1.6 rockers? Is that as far as I can go without doing some modification at the base of the dual springs?

Keep in mind this is a stock engine with a new timing chain and gears. The lifters went in around 7000 miles ago, with new chrome molly HD pushrods that were installed with the cam along with new Johnson hydraulic lifters. Also at that time I installed a new oil pump, and stronger rocker arm studs/nuts/washers for adjustable factory settings for lash. The engine has a strong bottom end and no head leaks. There are the original splash shields under the valve covers.

The 1966 GTO tripower intake and Rochester carbs have new rebuild kits with new power pistons, jets, inner screens, discharge tubes, anti-perculation aerators (they have the holes in brass to break down fuel molecules for better atomization.) The ram air pan is sealed to the bottom of the hood so all you get is cool outside air to the motor. This keeps the fuel with alcohol from percolating and causing a vapor lock. I installed a HD temperature clutch fan and a extra side kick fan. I then installed an electric pusher fan out front of the radiator, and a special thermostat with 3 by pass holes. The head crossovers for the choke are covered so no heat gets under the center carb.

i pulled the intake off and put phenolic over the valley pan and under the intake, to help block engine heat from the bottom of the carbs. I followed instructions on line to modify the water pump to lower the clearance. When I installed the a/c, the engine temperature went up 30 degrees, so I wrapped the fuel bowls with insulation and added phenolics under the bowls to keep excess heat from getting to the fuel bowls. The metal lines to each carburetor are also wrapped with heat wrap.

I have 4 remote oil coolers. Two of them are using 3/4 " copper pipe a few feet long, along with two transmission coolers, plus I just added a remote oil filter. There is also a power steering cooler and filter. I’m running an MSD box and a super coil. The only option I don't have installed is the cruise control although I do have all the parts.

Recently, I broke the torque converter, so I bought a 12” HD monster that will move a large RV. I just installed a B&M transmission kit, and cleaned out all the valves in the valve body. I added a new vacuum modulator and cleaned the governor.

The car is lowered 2" with Belltech drop spindles in the front and Herb Adams leaf springs in the rear. It has larger diameter anti sway bars and Koni shocks. I only use fuel without alcohol so the boiling point of the unleaded is higher than alcohol fuel by 10 degrees to avoid percolation.

Over the years i have done the wrong fixes first and learned what the major fixes are toward the middle and toward the end. This is my first build. Hopefully you have enough information to help me make the best decision for this project.

Thanks
Michael

What is effective gear ratio in top gear with GV OD?

Rhoads lifters w the 041 is where many of us would start. Otherwise... Good luck going to a smaller "cam of the month", as unless it's setting on a shelf somewhere, going to be some time til one can be machined.

That is the truth. Cams are harder to find than winning lottery tickets. 041 with Rhoads would be a good setup. I was lucky and found my Voodoo on eBay but haven't seen a Pontiac one since.

Bullet/Ultradyne custom ground my cam to order and I was surprised that the entire process from initial phone call to delivery at my door only took a little over a month. In this day and age, that’s downright FAST! Mad props to those guys for great service.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great to hear. I had planned a Bullet cam, & need to finalize cam specs on a near future build. THANK YOU.

Hopefully the cam blanks are starting to show up... I ordered a Lunati Voodoo HFT cam on July 22 and got it on August 17.... Pretty quick considering the current situation.

"041" cam question?
 

I have 3.23 gears. In overdrive, I get the less than 1:1 ratio that one gets in third gear of the TH400 transmission. I think Gear Vendors allows the overdrive in the .75 range, but don't quote me. I am at 80 mph in overdrive tops at 3000 rpm now. I have heard of the Rhoads lifters and going to 1.6 rockers, not sure if i need all that but in the future maybe if someone can explain why i should go that way.

As for today, I have a timing gear and chain from Comp Cams installed 8 crank degrees advanced and that is 4 degrees advanced at the cam, but I have not run the engine yet this way. If I understand anything I have read over the years, I will be bringing the power range toward the starting line as a race car would like. Question is, before i start the engine with this advanced setting, am I safe and will not hurt the engine at all? Once I feel safe to run the car in this advanced condition, then I will test and tune and curve the distributor to match the advanced cam.

I originally installed this cam straight up per Mellings advice, but after running it for a few years I found the power range is higher than it needs to be. So, I want to bring the power range toward the launch of the vehicle off the line for street purposes only. By advancing the the cam 4 degrees, am I doing the correct thing or not? If I like the way the vehicle moves off the line for street use, then I will have the distributor advance re-curved.

I have a 744 high lift Wolverine "Blue Racer" camshaft that has the lift of the RA-IV camshaft but less duration than the RA-IV that has worked well on several engines like the engine you want to do.

Just a thought, no sales pitch.

Tom V.

I don't want to go down to a smaller cam, this is the reason that i am sticking with this 041 cam. More duration and higher lift works well with my up jetted tripower carbs.

This YK code 1967 428HO is one of 1,024 made in 1967 with special equipment. Is it special in that it uses the 524886, cam or is it because of the Y-branch manifolds? I have the partial vin on the block number but have yet to learn from PS what vehicle it was in. All I know is a moonshiner in the Carolinas used it and it was pulled out of a truck. The man who sold me this 1979 TA has passed away, and that is his story. :)

This motor has d-port heads and 10.75 compression. The 1966 tripower intake and carbs belong to 389 or 421 motor. My engine YK code is automatic and 4 barrel carb, so how did this motor get the tri power set up? is that what makes it special equipment? It was produced early in 1967 and Pontiac had stopped installing tripower in 1966, could my motor be one that was on the shelf prior to the gm tripower ban? The 524886 cam is #6 1956-62 tri power cam, 283 112 .407 60 293 116 .407, it’s between the 067 and 068 cams but i found it is the only cam designated for tripower out of the entire list. That is why in my own personal trial that it works perfectly in sync with the kick down, torque converter and tri power secondaries. At the time i had one inch phenolics under each carb.

tom, i must stay with all things factory build , this project scope is thus , i have a 1979 pontiac ta with a 1976 front and rear clip. a 1976 formula hood with the snorkels and a ta reverse scoop facing the windshield for actual running
cold air induction. i use the ram air pan under the tri power carbs.

Just my opinion but have a 744 cam in my 4-speed/AC 400. For more cubes I'd go to a 041.

padgett are you running tri power also?. and i have red that your set up works well . keep in mind i don"t race and i am running 3.23 gears at this time . nice judge or t-37 or tempest .

524886 camshaft specs:

1956-62 3/2bbl 6 283 112 .407" .447" 60 293 116 .407" .447" 524886
The .447 lift is with 1.65 Rocker Arms. .407 with stock 1.5 rocker arms.

1966-69 RA H 301 113 .407" .447" 76 313 118 .407" .447" 9785744

My camshaft I proposed (same as the 1966-69 RA H Camshaft as far as duration but more lift vs the stock .407 lift. It has .469 lift.)

That cam is one step below the RA-IV camshaft you want to remove. Lift does not affect driveability as much as duration does.

Your 524886 cams is smaller that even the stock RA-III camshaft for specs.

But your decision.

Tom V.

Right now I have an 800 CFM QJ on mine. At various times I have had dual quad AFBs and 66 tripowers. Secret to decent MPG is in the progressive linkage & tripower is best with a single large oval air cleaner as used on B-bodies. Little A93C pots are terrible.

From H-O

Stan

are you stuck on the 041 cam? maybe step down to a smaller cam to move the torque curve where you want it.

what are the specs of the rest of the engine.

in my opinion you're going about this a in a way that will not give you the results you want. sounds like you were happy with the old, much smaller cam. your gearing is also not ideal, let alone having a gear vendor unit. your engine will be cruising at an RPM range it will not be happy with. I think most say to install a RAIV around 110 degrees ICL for best results. You would use the advance/retard settings in the chain to put the cam where it should be using a degree wheel.

for example, even if you advanced the 041 to 105 ICL (8 degrees). it will be down in power everywhere compared to a high lift 744 (summit 2802). especially low end torque!

ok for now i am stuck with this cam and i have the option to set the cam at 2-4-6-8- degrees at the crank . what should i set it at or should i just put it back straight up as it was before?

Cam advance
 

As yet I have not seen a comment on degreeing the cam. The cam card will state where the intake center line should be. Just picking an amount to advance the cam is not proper. Hopefully one of the various engine builders will better assist you.

Don't worry about what the timing is at the cam. Conversation should only be about what the degree wheel reads, and that is crank degrees. The eight degrees would be crank degrees. With high lifts you could have valve piston interference advancing the cam that far. Regardless, adding that much advance is going to at least make all ranges of the RPM range suck. For many of us, an 041 cam is a tame grind and it really shouldn't be that bad if installed correctly. Only thing that jumps out at me is the 12" torque converter that would really be more at home on a truck turning low revs.

My advice would be to actually degree in the cam and set it where the cam card specifies it should be, or at least no more than two degrees advanced. If you want more low end power, then grab a set of the Rhoads lifters that were recommended above.

What is the intake centerline of the installed cam? That will answer your question.

When you use the term “straight up” do you mean your decreeing it to the manufacturers recommend ICL or do you meet “ dot to dot” on the timing gears?

When you talk about advancing the cam X degrees are you decreeing it or just putting in 2-4-6-8 degree keys?


Murf

Going with a typical timing chain and gear.....when the "dots" point to eachother is where MOST refer to as "straight up". That is all wonderful and fine but without actually degree'ing in the camshaft that is a MOOT conversation. You either degree it in and know or you pot shot it and guess?

Will it run? YES. Will advancing 4 degrees from WHERE IT USED TO BE bring the power band lower in the RPM? Who knows as you do not really know where it was. If it was already in at 106 and you move it 4 degrees --> 102 degrees CL....probably going to LOSE power EVERYWHERE but yes it will run.

Another tid bit to consider. If one is going by a cam companies printed material with the description of a "power range" or "RPM operating range" it's generic information.
Too many variables involved.

FWIW, I hope you took time to degree the cam in when using the advance keys on the multi key time set. That 8 degree crank multi key compcams timing set is marked for it’s reference from the cam timing. Using the 8 key the advance is meant to move the intake center line from 113 to 105…. A full 8 degrees, not 4.

In a stock application think about why the factory never installed a 041 or a smaller 744 in a 428 or 455. Think about RPM limits and those cams usefulness.;)

Not 100% sure but believe the only place where the 390 hp engine was used was in the 428 Grand Prix.
The Grand Prix was a real boat and a great number of them were NEVER raced at the track.
No need for the cam to be bigger than the 068 camshaft for that application.

Installing the 428 engine/parts in a A-Body vehicle or F-Bird, is another story, imo.

Tom V.

I have a 428 and an 041 cam.

I only used the 041 cam because I had it for years, just sitting there. I race with it and it's pretty much a dog the last 1/8 mile of the 1/4 mile run, 5000-5700 rpm. The 60ft is great, 1.65 seconds. Degree it and Install it at 109

I got this information off the net, this may or may not be what Melling built into my 041 cam. I Never received a cam card. I bought this 041 cam from Melling through Butler and was told to install it straight up.

Here is what I found on the net and if this is the only way the 041 cam can be manufactured then here we go : 308/320 231/240 366 hp/5500 rpm 445 lb ft /3900 rpm OL 87 LSA 13.5 IC 112

The advance timing chain and gear has not been run or started up yet in the car, this is the purpose of this thread I started , so I don't destroy a good running motor with my inexperience. I was under the impression that 8 degrees at the crank is equal to 4 degrees at the cam. I never used a degree wheel yet in my life.

This is a stock motor and ran perfect with the last cam and also with this 041 cam. The only reason I am even thinking of moving the power band toward the launch is that I thought I could. I am thinking of putting the gear back on the original setting with no advance. If some one thinks I can benefit some by moving 2 degrees at the crank for a one degree advance at the cam please advise so.

Whoever said to go back to the original cam has the best idea yet, that was my original thought, however since I all ready have this 041 cam installed should I be maybe getting the Rhoads variable lifters and 1.6:1 rockers like others do . Going back to the former cam is going backward toward a smaller cam.

What do I do to get better performance out of the 041 cam that is in the car now. I have new Johnson lifters in the motor now and HD Chromemolly push rods and 7/16" screw in HD rocker studs from Butler. What advantage can I gain with Rhoads Variable Lifters in my street driven vehicle anyway? I don"t want to waste money.

Back in the day Royal Pontiac would shim under the valve springs and use Distributor curve kits and copper head gaskets etc... I do have the air induction Ram air pan with foam seal under the Tri power carbs. and cool air is just what this engine loves. I Installed a Trans Am Scoop near the windshield for working air induction on the 1976 formula hood.at one time I took the snorkels out to let air in to carbs and to cool off the headers but I don't have to do that any more. I brought down the engine temperature in other ways.

We put the dots at 12 o'clock each first, that is straight up as Melling would have me install the gears. Melling took all the guess work out of the installation. Then we set the advance at 8 degrees at the crank and that is equal to 4 degrees at the cam. Am I wrong in my thinking? Please be advised I am learning here, so if I am wrong correct me please. We have not started the engine yet and won't until we are sure what to do. I have no experience in degreeing cams but I have seen the procedure on videos, just need to buy the tool wheel set up.

I have not used a degree wheel yet, but would like to learn. I first ran the 041 cam for a couple years as Melling had me set it up with no advance. The cam dots are both at 12 o'clock at top dead center compression stroke.

Yes for now, the future is not here yet.

Lets say I Install the 041 cam with the dots both on 12 o'clock - "straight-up". Since the 041 cam is installed now, I will consider options on improvements that will gain some performance if there are any to be had. Maybe some day I will go back to the former cam but not now.

The question now is if I were to install the 1.6:1 rockers, with inexpensive rollers on them and maybe Rhoads variable lifters, what would be the performance gains on street use, if any?

Engine specs are thus: 376 hp factory, guess by me is as much as 428 hp with real air induction adds 35 hp plus headers and dual exhaust. I upgraded to the 041 cam already. It's never been dyno'd. It has a TH400 transmission with a B&M shift kit, Gear Vendors over under drive, and Herb Adams suspension all around with Koni shocks for handling. vFour wheel Disc Brakes and Posi-Traction. Lowered by two inches and race suspension. There are 3.23 gears in the rear end. At about 3000 rpm I run 80 mph in overdrive.

Without knowing what heads, stock or ported, compression ratio, I think you may be expecting too much performance from the 041 cam. The changes you want to make to move power around is probably only going to give less power everywhere. The 041 cam is not the cam to look at those drag race charts about moving the ICL to change the power band rpm. If you are not going to degree it, install it dot to dot.

Using 1.65 ratio rockers to add more lift is a good way to increase power, especially with the small lift the 041 has. Then you will need to check the roller tip pattern on your valves and purchase the proper length pushrods.

As mentioned in your other thread with the same title, I use the 041 cam, but it down on power compared to my old cam that had less duration and more lift.

Pontiac, all and G/P in 1968,
Pontiac P/Hwy, and G/P 1969
You are correct about the 068 in a stock bottom end configuration.

I bought the cam from Melling through Butler. Melling made the cam to be installed "straight up", I installed the cam @ 12 o'clock both dots. I have no experience with the degree wheel yet although I have watched videos on the topic. I have driven this cam for a few years now and find that I prefer the former cam, the original 524886.

I would like to try the twin 4 bbl, sounds like the best and racers used that setup. Tri-power is sexy and looks the best and when those secondaries come on you can't beat that feeling especially when the #524886 cam that is installed that is made for the Tri-power set-up. I use mechanical linkage, stay away from that vacuum linkage system.

The 73-74 SD could handle a 041 but the 041 was never used.
The 744 was never in a 455 or a 428.
What was in the 73-74 SD "only" was the 493323 cam which specs out the same as the 744. But the 323 cam has a special small gear to accommodate the large distributor gear.

I think you had the right idea with the 4 degrees of advance for your set up. Use the +4 advance key instead of the +8.

TRADER MIKE 2012, you are saying that you feel that the 041 cam is larger than you like. If this is true, then you do not want to install higher ratio rockers because that will make the cam feel slightly larger and the opposite way you are saying you want to go. 1.65 Ratio rockers increase lift 10% and marginally increases duration. I'd say about another 4° but that is subject to discussion. Regardless, if you are thinking you want a smaller cam then you don't want to go with higher ratio rockers.

It's been years since we burned up a bunch of dyno time moving around the ICL, but every time we moved the ICL either advanced or retarded the net result was usually a loss of overall power. If we advanced the cam we would pick up 5 horsepower down low but loose 20 up on top. Reverse the procedure and retard the cam and pick up some on top and loose even more down on the bottom. We finally had to admit that the cam manufacturers actually knew what they were doing when they set their specs.

After some more reading and memory searching I have come up with this: 1968-70 RA4 T 308/112 .470 87 320/115 .470 # 9794041 cam. I believe that the Melling factory did this : 115-112=3 divided by 2 = 1.5 +112 = 113.5 ICL. So "straight up" installation of the 041 cam I bought has the ICL built into the cam outright. Thus, one lines up the dots at 12 o'clock on top of each gear, with the piston on top dead center of the compression stroke.

Someone said to Degree the cam first , then install the 041 cam at 109 Degrees ICL. Thus, I will set the Crank pulley using the #4 setting giving me 4 degrees at the cam. Looks like this 109.0 +4=113. Also I might get the roller 1.6:1 inexpensive rockers and Rhoads Variable lifters. Using the 1.6 not 1.65 rockers should leave me without spring issues at the lower pockets having to be modified? Am I forgetting anything?

everything except dialing in the cam.
did the manufacturer GRIND the cam with the key at 113.5* or did they GRIND the ICL at 108* from the KEY. Different manufacturers do/did different things!!!! For Instance the Crane Muscle car cam "041" has a 113.5 LSA with a recommended install at 110* ICL.. THE CAM IS MADE TO GO IN WITHOUT ANY OFFSET KEYS AND BE AT 110*. Now in a perfect world YES that would and should happen....but do to manufacturing tolerances (ie timing chain slop, keyway clearances, etc...) it is easy to miss 2-3*. Also NOTE:

Thus, one lines up the dots at 12 o'clock on top of each Gear

dots face eachother...12'O'clock on the CRANK gear 6 O'clock on the cam gear..

That's TDC Compression on #6.

Pontiac is both dots up for TDC Compression on #1.

Clay

The quote feature is a great thing to use.

You will need to check for pushrod clearance at the top of the head with different ratio rocker arms. If I was you, I would not spend any more money tiring to make the 041 cam more powerful. I do like the idle quality the Rhodes lifters provide.

Originally I was trying to move the power band from up high toward the launch with out replacing the cam .This is the worn out #524886 cam in my 1967 428 ci Ho with th 400, I liked the way it functioned, should have put a copy of it back in but I experimented with the "041" and top end is just what I got . Too much I think now. This thread is about moving the power range in the "041" I have installed now while keeping the "041". Using a comp cams adjustable timing Gear chain set to gain some of the top end back were I can use it to take off.

The problem is you have no idea what ICL the cam is installed at. If at dot to dot the cam is in at 113 ICL or greater then advancing it 8 degrees just might help. But what if at dot to dot the cam is already advanced some?

Stan

Well, I used information I read on this forum using the search function to set the 041 cam ICL. . I think 109 ICL was on the cam card and that is what I set it at. Been a few years but I think I used a 1 1/2 or 2 degree cam key ( I made my own ) to arrive at that 109. Also, I know the chain had about 1 degree slop, so I needed to take that slop out with the cam key and the cam was off a little.

As stated before, the cam has plenty of low end, but does not pull at the high end ( last half of the track ) compared to my old cam. Picture of car with a 428, using the 041 cam, 670 heads ported by me, 9.7 compression ratio. This car is a blast to drive around town, especially from a stop light!

Hey, what were you saying about lifters and 7000 miles? I thought I read that from one of your posts.

After some more reading and memory searching I have come up with this: 1968-70 RA4 T 308/112 .470 87 320/115 .470 # 9794041 cam. I believe that the Melling factory did this : 115-112=3 divided by 2 = 1.5 +112 = 113.5 ICL. So "straight up" installation of the 041 cam I bought has the ICL built into the cam outright. Thus, one lines up the dots at 12 o'clock on top of each gear, with the piston on top dead center of the compression stroke.

Someone said to Degree the cam first , then install the 041 cam at 109 Degrees ICL. Thus, I will set the Crank pulley using the #4 setting giving me 4 degrees at the cam. Looks like this 109.0 +4=113. Also I might get the roller 1.6:1 inexpensive rockers and Rhoads Variable lifters. Using the 1.6 not 1.65 rockers should leave me without spring issues at the lower pockets having to be modified? Am I forgetting anything?

Also, I Installed the 041 cam a few years ago With new Johnson lifters , timing Gears (first set) semi adjustable, chromemoly HD push rods and 7/16 hardened rocker screw in studs from Butler and new gaskets. I bought the melling 041 cam through Butler set up from the factory as stated above so all I had to do is install it with dots at 12 o'clock each. I now have about 7,000 miles on these new parts over about the past 5 years.

Most of the factory cams from CMC (Wolverine) were installed with the keyway ALREADY machined for the 4 degree advance (if memory serves me today). The Factory RA-IV Melling cams were ground exactly to GM specs with the keyway machined with no advance in the keyway.

If the camshaft DID have advance built into it, Rodney/David probably would have installed the 4 degree advance/ retard (with the key flipped around in the camshaft so that you could do the "dot to dot" you mentioned in your post above.

Not sure that Melling ground every replacement RA-IV camshaft with no advance.

Tom V.

Tom,
The Melling Specs say 112 ICL 115 ECL which would mean a 113.5 LSA or 1.5 degrees advance.

Stan