I'm going to paint my car myself, have questions. opinions appreciated
 

I have a 72 Lemans sport that I have had for 17 yrs. According to the PHS it was ordered with the endura frt. clip option. I dropped a YS 400 in it and packed away the original 350 a few years ago in case someone wants to restore it back to the way it came from the factory. That's the back story.

I contacted a restoration shop near me about painting my car. I let him know I was hoping for a paint job for around 10K which is a huge amount of money for me. I let him know that I was not expecting a #1 concours national show quailty paint job, as I just wanted to drive the car and attend local shows, cruise ins etc.. The guy advised that he was very short on help and that he had a 2 yr waiting list. I had told him the car was basically rust free except for one place around a vinyl top trim pin that was about the size of a quarter and that I thought the car had mostly original paint. (I will attach some pics). He said that based on my description, he might be able to fit me in for a quick repaint and to send him some pics and that he could see the car in a couple weeks.

After receiving my pics he emailed back and said that it was not an easy repaint and that his price would be in the high 20k range. So upper 20 something thousand. Man was I bummed, I have owned a few classic rust buckets in my time and kept this car because I can turn a wrench, but don't know much about paint and body, I do know rust repair is EXPENSIVE so I figured I was way ahead of the game with a mostly rust free car.

Having said that, I went out to the car and looked it completely over again. I'm 57 yrs old and the one constant in my life has been my love for cars. I go out of my way to read about peoples projects, watch restoration videos, talk to car guys, go to shows, watch auctions etc.. I can't get enough. After crawling all over my car again I still believe this is a rock solid car body wise.

I have decided that I will paint my car, I have about 40 hours of watching paint and body videos under my belt so far. I take notes as if I am back in school. Every morning before my wife gets up I watch at least 2-3 hours on you tube. I have plenty of time and nothing better to do so why not? Also I might add that I can, frame, drywall, trim, do electrical, plumbing, concrete work etc all self trained. I have flipped houses for 30 yrs handling most all of the work myself. My houses usually sell with in a few weeks of hitting the market. I am a perfectionist. I only mention this to give you guys an idea of what i am capable of as it relates to figuring stuff out.

Sorry for the long post, but I respect this communities opinion, having read your responses daily for years and want to paint( no pun intended) an accurate pic of me and my project so I can hopefully get some honest opinions.

Finally some of my questions:

1. Did Pontiac paint my 72 in lacquer. (I read GM used lacquer during those years). If so, will I need to strip the body down to bare metal even where the paint is good and the body is solid if I use single stage or base coat clear coat?

2. The car is a one owner female purchased when she was 41 yrs old and I always thought it had mostly original paint because I can see no over spray anywhere, but the nader pins are painted orange like the body. Did the factory paint nader pins? I'm thinking they didn't.

3. What are your opinions about replacing the vinyl top or changing to a hardtop on this model yr.?

4. I don't hate the sundance orange, but have always dreamed of changing it to lucerne blue and keeping the white interior. I realize that will require painting all the jams. What are your opinions on this?

Lastly, I will be painting this in my 24 x 24 detached garage using all the right equipment. The main weak link will be me and my ability.

Painting a car has been an item on my bucket list forever. The 20k plus estimate for a repaint has given me all the motivation needed to dive and being a member of this community has empowered me to just do it.

Thanks for reading my long ass post.


Thank you for your ideas, opinions, and comments about this endeavor.

I'm trying to upload the pics. thanks

hopefully this worked.Attachment 578258

here are a few more

I'm sure I'm not the only other one contemplating the same thing. Watching... :popcorn:

I've read our community likes pics so here is some more

markpj23,

my thoughts exactly.

I'm going to say right out, YOU CAN DO IT!!!
I'm not a painter by any means. I've been a machinist, but can tackle many projects and figure things out. You have more skills than me.
I've painted four cars now in the last 15 years. It's a lot of work, but worth it. One was single stage and three were base coat, clear coat. My last was tri coat. Two were painted in my garage and two at work in a small paint booth.
Base, clear is more work, but can be fixed of blunders. The good thing is it may only cost you less than three grand for all materials. Most of mine were under two. My last was closer to three because it was tri coat (white, orange, clear), Lamborghini pearl orange, $400 quart for paint. The others I was buying a gallon of metallic from TCP Global for $120.
I think you can epoxy seal your current paint to seal it and you'll be good. I'm picky (like you), so my work shows it. I can be proud to say I painted it and saved also. You can TOO!

Wow your thought process is very common to me. definitely paint it yourself in your garage.

I would peel the vinyl top and hardtop it. (did that once and was so glad I did)

the professional shop cost is nuts. and when you do call "just to see", shops I called almost sound arrogant stating "2 to 3 year waiting list" and are only interested in "builds" ie; 100 grand jobs. beware when they say "might work you in for a quick repaint" meaning they will earl shibe it for big bucks.

If you paint it, and its not up to your standards, sand it and try again and still be money way ahead. but being handy as you say, you will learn so much along the way and likely get it right. I painted 1 car in my garage myself and it came out very nice. base coat/clear, I learned so much I am very confidant and can't wait to paint my current car.

you do not have to go to bare metal. in fact, I wouldn't. depending on where you live, you may feel rushed to constantly get the bare metal covered to avoid rust from forming.

what color? metallic does require more expertise and paint conditions.

sorry for the long post! just really enjoy diy folks that avoid the crazy cost shops that produce cars to be flower pots instead of drivers. take your time and enjoy the process.

Made the same decision myself ... do it. Lots of work, but it will probably get done WAY sooner than the shop will do it.

When taking advice, stay focused on the quality of paint work you want, don't get sucked into thinking you are going to get a show quality paint job the first time you paint. Lots of great advice out there, but if you want a driver paint job then much of it might not be the right advice for you.

Paint it a solid color, metallic has a whole slew of additional considerations, skills, and expenses involved.

Bit the bullet and take it down to bare metal, you will be surprised what you find.

I probably ended up spending about $3500-4000 to paint mine in BC/CC metallic, including a new $500 gun, $1500-2000 paint and abrasives, I'll add $600 of the $1600 for a new compressor I needed anyway. You could probably knock off $1000 in paint if you go with a solid color.

Still not done yet, have to paint the front clip in the spring, and reshoot some clear. Don't be depressed if something has to be reshot ... it happens. During the process of painting you'll end up settling on a "cost benefit analysis" of how much cost/work = what quality of paint you want.

Would you be happy with the paint that was on it 17 years ago? If so ... shoot for that level of finish. Bear in mind some of the best information sources are also geared toward the most perfect paint, and the most demanding painters .... that might not always sync with what you are looking for ... so temper the information and advice down to what YOU want for YOUR car.

that's a very cool original looking color. I remember those cars. (i'm 60) I would lose the top and the side molding. very cool car!

One more thing. I think I would repaint the car in the original color. Your jambs look good enough to leave alone. It's more work than you can imagine to do while trying to paint the car. The other option is scuff and paint them first. But, with doors on, you'll have a tough time getting everything covered. Otherwise (as a perfectionist, as we are), everything has to be pulled apart (doors, hood, trunk bumpers, etc.) to get good coverage of color change. This is where guys get burnt out, loose interest, stall and sell cheap to the next guy to finish. That's how I got my 72 Sport convertible with endura front (originally sundance orange). I would recommend pulling the bumpers and valance at a minimum though. Your car looks good. I would make your top decision before you start. I think the other painter was setting you up for a rip off by the way.

You might consider getting a couple more quotes.

If you are going to paint it yourself, go read “the perfect paint job” at spi’s website.

https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfectpaintjob

They have a very good forum too


With all the cost and labor involved you’ll want to strip it all the way down to bare metal.

You’ll have a couple thousand dollars in equipment (air compressor, welder, spray gun, filters, fresh air supply). Plus a couple thousand in paint, fillers, sandpaper, welding gas, buffers, polish etc. when all said and done you’ll have about 10k in but you’ll have a lot of tools you can re sell

It is a huge job and you’ll have many many hours in it. Something that would take a pro a weekend will take a couple months. But, it is a lot of fun and if you take your time you can get very good results.

Door strikers hinges and latches were all painted at the factory

Paint it blue if you want. It’s your car.


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But yes, like others have said ... DO IT.

I have this belief that you don't really OWN a car unless you A: Bought it new or B: painted it yourself.

When you paint it yourself ... you freakin own it, the good parts, the bad parts and you've had it stripped naked, you've caressed every inch a dozen times, you know every flaw, and every perfect curve.

Here is a good site, helped me a lot painting my cars.

http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php

WOW,

tjs72lemans, JUDGE3, Dataway, fairway hit.

Thank you, thank you ,thank you a million times. This is what I needed to hear!
I knew i could not be the only one.

thx
mike S

a few more

last pics

good stuff. can't resist a bit more input.

that car is super clean looking. I would not go to bare metal.

As suggested, I would remove the bumper/valance that's it. (other than the obvious trim/interior/door handles etc that need removed for a nice job)

biggest key, the more you remove the more you will think you have to go deeper and deeper and spend more money and time. I wanted to go deep into mine because it was a bucket list thing and my car needed it. your car looks like earlier ones i have had that need a restification not a restore.

mercy, your post excited me as though i'm starting my own car again.

good for you!

JUDGE3,

I share your passion. I'm jacked up and ready to tackle this project. I live in the middle of no where and try to talk to anybody i meet about cars. I usually will start the conversation like this...So what was your first car? Most times they say oh i dont remember or I'd have to think about it, but every once in a while i'll see their eyes light up and we are off and running. I love to talk to people my age or especially older, as it seems they love cars more than the younger crowd. I'm 57. When I find someone younger that is a car person it really puts a smile on my face. Since they are few and far between at least in the circles i travel.

I'm going to paint my car myself, have questions. opinions appreciated
 

I am also 57 and have a 72 GTO that spent it’s life in Florida and didn’t think it had much rust looks just like yours but black interior. You will find rust on the car judging by the rear window pic. You should take the front and rear windows out before you start and if you can’t repair the rust find someone willing to do it. Hated the Sundance orange so I knew before I started there would be a color change. Guy with skills fixed the rust and a friend painted it( I was helping where I could all the time I could) all in a pole barn with a home made paint booth. Car with a vinyl top is a bad idea I would take it off (and the body side molding) but take special care getting all the adhesive residue off before primer, I am having problems with the paint where the top was and will be painting again. Pics of problem area’s and when I got the shell home, now Atoll blue. Hope it goes well, takes ALOT of time.
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I did my own bodywork and paint. Like you, I was also getting quotes of 10K+ just for paint and being cheap and stubborn I was determined to do it myself, and learn some new skills.

I had never touched a paint gun when I started the bodywork, and I now own 5 guns! :)

Had I tried shooting paint on day one, I know I would have messed it up, but I purposely started with primer, primer-surfacer, and painting small parts like brackets and pulleys. I made lots of mistakes and figured things out on areas no one would see or which would be sanded down, so by the time I was ready for paint I had already shot several gallons of epoxy and surfacer. In comparison, when I finally was ready to shoot my reduced single stage paint, I found it to be sooo much easier than shooting primers. My point being that if you can learn to get good results shooting primer (especially epoxy), you will be well on your way.

Now for some realities you should consider:

-SAFETY FIRST: sanding dust and chemicals in the reducers, activators, primer and paint (especially the isocyanates in paint), are very poisonous. You NEED to wear nitrile gloves, safety glasses, and a proper respirator when working with these items. You should also invest in a supplied air system for final paint. Lots of people don't bother and just use an organic vapor cartridge filter respirator, and have no issues. I have a supplied air system and will confess I don't use it when spraying paint on smaller pieces, but I used it when I did the body shell and panels and it gave me piece of mind that I wasn't killing myself. Homemade paint booths usually have much less airflow than a professional booth, and you are putting yourself at considerable risk if you are breathing in these chemicals.

-there are no 'short cuts' to a good job. The time and effort that needs to be put in for a good end result is significant and unless you are going to strip to bare metal, there is a chance that new paint over any existing paint could be a problem later.

-mission creep is almost a given...so if you strip to bare metal you are going to find some rust you did not expect, and this will require repair and bodywork. And this is the right way to do it, but again, tons of work which will take longer than you think.

-even a well thought out temporary booth with filters and a wet down floor will result in dust, trash and nibs in the paint. It is EXTREMELY stressful to walk around the car with an air hose and supplied air line trying not to get them (and your fat belly if you enjoy beer like me :) ) in the fresh paint. The good news is these can be repaired during the 'cut and buff' process. Some of them may not be 100% gone but this is the tradeoff for painting at home vs. by a pro in a proper booth.

-I assume you are contemplating paint the car together...this will save a ton of extra work for disassembly and reassembly, but it may be more challenging to paint compared to piece by piece as you will need to "walk the car" with the gun. I did not trust myself to be able to duckwalk around my car maintaining an 8" distance with the gun, so I painted in pieces, which made sense for me as I was finishing a body off restoration. Regardless of how you do it, spraying 3-4 coats of paint on a car will take several hours of reaching, stretching, and crouching, and you will be very sore at the end of it..almost like a rite of passage I guess.

-Unless you are retired, plan for the car to be off the road for a year. Even if you start now, by the time you remove all the trim, strip the paint, repair any rust, then start priming, by the time you are done block sanding and ready for paint this will have taken several months of weekends. Factor in delays in getting materials, fixing mistakes, and having to wait for the right temperature/humidity to spray primer and paint, and you will have taken longer than planned. Even when you finally get the paint on the car, you will still have many more weekends of wet sanding then buffing to get out the dust nibs and orange peel, followed by trim install.

-mission creep again: regardless of how little rust you think there is, the front and rear windows areas are notorious for water leaks and rot in the corners (rear) and bottom (front), so unless you have pulled the glass to check & repair, you may spend all this time only to have rust issues come up in these areas later. Of course, once glass is ready to reinstall you get the fun job of choosing butyl vs. urethane and hoping to get things installed correctly. Might as well install a new windshield while the old pitted and scratched one is out..oh, new glass is thinner than original, so now you need to ensure the new glass gets installed at correct height so trim will fit!!! Did I mention mission creep??? :(

All of this to say, be prepared for things to be much worse than you think, and to take way longer than you planned. If you are up for this physically and more importantly, mentally, then you can be successful and will get lots of support along the way from us. If any of this scares you, consider waiting a bit and continue driving the car. Your car looks great and even with the few rust spots, you have a cool car that you can drive and enjoy. The worst case, as others have said, is to not be prepared for the time and work required, and to strip an otherwise running car and lose interest or get discouraged resulting in it staying off the road and/or sold. Only you know your limits of patience, finances, and skills, so be honest with yourself about your goals and ability to pull this off.

Thanks DavesGTO, I agree, after seeing your pics. I cracked the windshield trying to remove the hood by myself so Its coming out asap. I hope i dont find rust, but odds are I will. My car is out of NC but, spent 14 yrs in florida when i lived there. I'll be posting as I go. Your car turned out real nice. I've always loved the honeycombs.

Thanks! mrennie put it extremely well, a wise man. Carefully consider everything said in his post!


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DavesGTO: Your car looks awesome!!!

Thanks Mrennie,

For the very comprehensive response. I had thought that because of my lack of experience, I might do it like you did. Paint panels one by one. I was thinking single stage since I love the original factory finishes and thought it might be easier for a first paint. Not sure if that's true or not.. I had planned on removing the hood, doors and deck lid. Also remove the windshield(i broke it anyway) and the back glass, all the trim, bumpers, frt valance, rear valance (mine is plastic I have a new one) and anything else I can take off. As i continue to become comfortable with the idea of doing the work myself, my thoughts are already evolving as what and how I proceed. My plan right now is to still remove the frt and rear glass (i've been reading yours and others urethane vs butyl for that) the drivers door to repair some heavy surface rust underneath. I will be replacing all weather stipping as well. I want to remove the fenders because I think it will give me better access to the cowl vents which have some surface rust plus I want to see all that I can see. I am concerned about panel alignment when reinstalling though. I have removed the hood twice and reinstalled nicely by marking original placement, but i think i got lucky. I'm still all over the place as you can tell, but clarity will continue as my education of paint and body proceeds. I want to get a mig welder and cut the area around the vinyl top trim pin out 2" x 2" or so piece of metal ( which is currently the only cancerous corrosive rust I have found to date). Crossing fingers as I am concerned about what I find under the frt and rear glass. I will take all your safety advise. I have debated for years about tear it down and repair vs. drive it while I work on it. I hope to do a little of both.

Choosing between base/clear and single stage can be confusing for sure. I chose single stage for 2 reasons: because I was painting a solid color (the original Cardinal red), and because it would take less # of coats to complete. In my mind, less # of coats = less chance of dust/dirt/mistakes. I know base/clear offers more UV resistance and repair opportunities, but getting a good result in my home made booth was my primary concern...and I also agree that base/clear for solid colours looks 'different' than factory paint.

Regarding panel alignment...I spent many hours getting everything lined up the best I could, and was quite concerned about how I could disassemble, paint, and get things back in the same position. Some may cringe at this practice, but I drilled 3/32" alignment holes to fit Cleco pins in various locations before final disassembly, including door hinges, hood hinge to hood, trunk lid to hinge, fenders to body and rad support. All body shims have been bagged and tagged to ensure the go back to the correct location.

I still need to cut and buff the doors and front clip, so time will tell how well these alignment holes help but I am sure they will at least get me much closer than starting from scratch. They are not that noticeable, and if anyone ever points them out and criticizes I will ask them to show me the car they restored, painted, and assembled on their own... :)

I looked up the cleco pins. I think that would be a good idea for my project, you got me thinking. I watched a quick video, but will look more in depth at that before I take off any panels.

You can certainly paint your own car and have good results. I do it because I simply cannot afford to hire it done. The bodywork and prep work is by far the hardest part if you try to do things right. Painting is not that difficult if you use a good quality gun and good materials. I would highly recommend spending the money to buy a good paint gun. I use an Iwata LPH 400. It’s easy to use and does a great job with both single stage and base/clear. I tend to favor single stage for non metallic paints and base/clear for metallics. Do some practicing painting on a test panel. Once you get the hang of your gun and can lay the paint nice and flat, move on to your car. Spend the money to buy good primers and good paint as well.

I’ll add a couple of tips. Prior to starting TAKE LOTS OF PICTURES. As the project expands in scope, old men tend to forget details. Look at your existing body lines for future reference. As this old man (71) did not take pics, I spent a lot of time trying to recreate the assemble. As has been mentioned previously, the actual finish paint application will take less than8 hours, whereas the prep will take 100s of hours. I painted my 69 bird vert in bc cc “limelight green” witch has a large amount of metallic. This being the first car I’ve painted I would agree that if your diligent and persnickety you will be very happy with your paint job. There were several areas on my car that I painted several times as to my annualism 😂. Also if you have a jr college close they may offer auto body courses. Good luck with your project.

Thanks for the advice John M.,

I found the Iwata LPH 400 The one I saw came with the 1.3 Tip around 430-450.00. I have it on my list to learn more about as I learn more about guns, tips, etc.. All the reviews were excellent. I don't mind spending that kind of money on a good gun. Take care.

Thanks Ramairhart,

Great advice about documenting. Sometimes I joke that I have about a 2 week memory recall. I need to brush up on creating computer files to keep track of my pre disassembly pics and everything that I do to the car after that. Everything I've ever done as it relates to projects (house, car, boat Etc,) I've been a novice when I start and an expert (in my mind) when I finish......for about 2 weeks anyway. Too many Beers and what not. LOL. I'll make notes and take lots of pics. Take care.

So With paint stripper not being what it use to be since they took the good stuff out, how are most of you stripping paint? After reading a bunch about that subject I'm thinking about stripping with a combination of chemical stripper (saw a video testing 5 of them and even though they all kinda suck now, the jasco came in first and airplane stripper came in 2nd both of course without methylene chloride) and mechanical stipping. Looked at eastwoods SCT sander, reviews complained about the expensive sanding drums and sub par quality of the drums plus lots of stuff out of stock for that unit. What do ya'll think about using a DA for an inexperienced operator? Is it easy to warp body panels with too much heat while using one? I have used wire wheels before to strip engines so I'll use them when appropriate. Also thinking about small spot media blaster for some areas like the botton of doors with heavy surface rust and hard to reach areas, Some guys like a varible speed buffer with sand paper. Also read some older post about heat gun and razor blades. Might try that too.

I dont want to pay 1000-3000 for dustless, soda, sand blasting, chemical dip etc. I have to move a little slower than that since I've got to put this car back together and will probably be preping one panel at a time.

Thanks for your imput.

Unless your car has several layers of paint, I would shy away from strippers. They can cause more grief later if not neutralized 100 percent. I used mostly DA for sanding down to metal. They work slow enough not to heat up to warp. Edges and creases I used drill and wire wheel. My hood had several layers and peeling as well as bondo. So, for first time used the razor blade trick. Worked well on much of it. But, DA was my friend there too.
You do get a much better job with panels off car, but you also risk mismatch shade color if strict adherence to number of coats and thickness applied, as well as if not done at same time. Different days with variance of temps, humidity, etc.

Thanks, I'm pricing out DA's right now. Between that, the razor blade method and wire wheels, I should be good. I still want to try one of those smaller media spot blasters for the hard to get places too.

I cannot recommend these highly enough .. they work quick and they make life very simple ... disks, angle grinder .. mask. Do as little or as much as you like at a time. As a reference ... you can fully strip a typical fender to bare metal in 30-45 minutes. Probably 10 hours and the whole car is done. Might use 20 total. Pick a brand ... most appear to work about the same. Only place they have a problem with are areas like the firewall with lots of uneven surfaces. They made quick work of my 68 GTO. I started the process with a sander ... actually sanding disks on a buffer ... this was probably 4 times faster and used way less disks.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/...L._SL1280_.jpg

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...8&d=1637557773

Thanks for the tip dataway. I ordered 5 of the black hawk disc for 35.00 off Amazon just now. Should be here tomorrow. Since the hood is off, I'll start with it. I brought a cheap HF gun for expoxy primer for the bare metal. Now I need to figure out which primer to use.

SPI epoxy.

Thanks mrennie, for recommending SPI.

I went to

https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfectpaintjob

that fairwayhit suggested yesterday. Looks like all I need to know is there.

Now time to get outta my recliner and get busy.

I started this thread 24 hrs ago and already have learned all I need to know for now. Amazing testiment to the knowledge and willingness of this community to help a fellow car enthusiast.

Thanks again everyone. I'll post my progress and pics as I go.

One more thing. There are spots where you find you can't get every speck of rust out. Like, pits and cracks/crevices. I used a rust inhibitor like Rustoleum to brush it into those areas. It helps to neutralize and seal the rust issue. It actually transforms the rust.

How good do you really want it? An option would be to remove everything you can and take it to a MAACO or a similar operation. Doesn't look like it needs much rust work. Would save a bunch of money. That said, it sure won't be show quality but will likely look good from 10'! Probably get 5 years out of it or so. Myself, I've almost always painted my cars myself.....hell of a lot of work to do a really nice job but you won't go into cardiac arrest from the quotes you would get these days.

TJS72 lemans,

I was wondering about that. I was thinking about eastwoods fast etch for those little specks of rust I cant get to, but wasn't sure about what would happen to them later. Rust converter used sparingly sounds like good insurance.

Thanks CarCrazy,

I had thought about getting a cheap paint job like Maaco or some other place, but I didn't think I'd be happy with the end result. I tried to pm you, but it looks like your box is full.
Just wanted to say Hi since it looks like we are only about 45 mins from each other. Maybe I'll run into you at a car show in the area sometime. Thanks again.

Before putting any "etch" type products on any bare metal, make sure they are compatible with primer you will be using.

SPI epoxy cannot be used over many (most) acid rust neutralizers.

The DeVilbiss Pro Lite is also a forgiving gun that gives good result.

I don't think an etch primer would do anything for rust. The rustoleum rust transformer I don't believe is an acid based product, so shouldn't be affected by SPI primer. I didn't have an issue with it.

Ok , got it. Learning a lot. Thanks guys.

So much great info and suggestions in this post. Interesting how many here are on the same page with their suggestions.

I’ll second or third the vote for SPI products. The forum on their site is also loaded with knowledge and friendly people. It’s great when you think about having “free” access to knowledgeable and sometimes pro painters that want and often go out of their way to help you. If you’ve ever visited other paint forums, you’ll know that many (most? All? Lol) are not an inviting place for people trying to learn!

I can’t say enough good things about SPI Epoxy. Check out Ospho for treating those hard to get to places or pitted areas you just can’t seem to eradicate. I think it’s also the only “rust treatment” SPI recommends and approves of.

Anyways, great looking car you have there, can’t wait to see your progress as you move along!

Have you seen my build thread?
I am documenting the details of my body work and paint on my '69.