Paint removal - Eastwood SCT - 68 GTO
 

I've had my car for about 5 years now and I'm ready for paint and body. I have no experience doing paint and body but I did speak with a shop in Northern Virginia. They have a very good reputation. I was thinking of trying to save some money by removing the trim, vinyl top, bumpers and even the paint. I know my car has a bit of bondo on the quarters and doors..fenders seem ok. There is no cracking or chipping but the doors are a little wavy.

Any thoughts on a novice removing the paint and bondo with this tool from Eastwood or is there a chance that I can cause more damage to the metal. I measured the paint thickness on the quarters and door and it's as thick as 50 mils in some area. Should I expect to get new quarters?

Or would it make more sense to use Dustless Blaster. I did get a quote from them for about $1,600. The engine will remain in the car as well as the interior. I'm pretty sure I want to go with a color change as well. I'd like to go with a Pontiac color (Blue Charcoal Poly)

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-contour-sct.html

Dustless blasting an assembled car is a big mistake imho. That stuff will get everywhere.

I always try to strip with razor blades before resorting to sanding.

Don

Hey Don.....yeah I was wondering how bad that could be. I could take off the fenders and doors but I'm not sure how much that would help. The $1,600 quote I received didn't even include clean up. Do you have any experience with that tool from Eastwood by any chance?

Joe

I have one and didn’t like it for stripping paint. Some guys love them.

Don

I did my entire car with one. Took about 5 days.

If it was my project I would talk with the body shop about your plans. They may use a different process and your process may conflict. Removal tools like the one you indicated have a tendency to polish the metal and may require the body to be completely sanded to remove that polish and give the metal some "tooth" so the primer will adhere properly.
I also would plan on removing the doors after removing the door panels and glass. If you are satisfied with the door panel gaps drilling a small hole (1/8" or smaller) in each hinge as an index will allow you to use the drill bit as an index pon to reinstall the doors exactly where they were.
With a color change I would remove the door and trunk weather stripping and the door sill plates at a minimum.
You may want to consider removing the carburetor before it goes to the body shop and bolting a block off plate over the intake. That insures no dust or sanding grit gets in your motor or carburetor.

I've used the SCT from Eastwood and it made the job easier, I would recommend it. I've been doing this work for a long time and to me its the best tool for the job other than media blasting.

I’m no pro, so take it for what it’s worth. ��

I used a Mikita variable speed buffer & 8 inch 80 grit Norton 80 grit pads. Like these.

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/m...gory_Code=SPAR

My thinking was that I need a buffer anyway. Kinda a two birds with one stone thing. YMMV

By the way, Len’s website has a lot of valuable info.

Have fun with it!
Murf

Hey Don,
What don't you like about using that tool? Are you experienced with body work? I have no experience at all and my concern was warping the metal etc. I think I've pretty much ruled out Dustless Blaster.

Hobbygto65,
I wish my car was as in good as shape as yours was at that time. I have a feeling I'm going to find some "issues".

Rob in NH,
What are your thoughts on someone without any experience at all using the Eastwood tool? I've watched plenty of videos and I would be pretty careful. Is it easy to cause damage with the SCT?

VCho455,
I'll be taking it over to the shop in a few weeks for an "estimate". You made some excellent points that I didn't even think of...thanks. Any idea how long it takes for flash rush to start?

Murf,
My neighbor is using something similar to that. Good points.

What about using chemicals?

As with any tool that grinds paint down it can cause damage , keep it moving and stay away from sharp body lines. Eastwood sells many different grits to choose from. I used the 40 grit drum to start with because of all the paint and filler i had in my car. You could start with 80 to get a feel for it. Then after its mostly stripped I used a DA sander to finish it up.

First of all I'm no professional when it comes to paint and body, just worked for a guy for a few months after I graduated from high school, doing all the crappy stuff he didn't want to, lots of sanding.

This is how I've always stripped cars, it is messy, but no dust in the air. I don't know if they've taken all the real nasty chemicals out of paint stripper, or if it works as good as it did back in the 70s. If you got it on bare skin it would make you feel numbness around the contact point. Usually only took a day to strip a car back then.

I'm sure breathing in the fumes isn't good for anyone, but I survived it the few times I did it. Using stripper requires no special skills, but if it gets on any weather stripping it usually ruins it. It should all be removed before the process begins. Also the stripper eats bondo, but it usually won't remove thick coats, just the thinner coats.

I had no idea dustless blasting was that expensive, $1600....:eek: All that expensive equipment has to get paid for somehow.

:2cents:

Agree with everything said here, especially the very first part. Embarking upon a process like this where multiple people are involved necessitates discussion among all parties.

I would never perform any kind of media blasting ("dustless" or otherwise) on a car that still has the drivetrain, interior, or electrics installed. I witnessed someone in my shop have his '69 Camaro media blasted with the fuel tank, dash w/gauges & wiring, steering column, and a few other items still installed. Media blasting wrecked all of it, and the blasters were angry for having to even work on a car in that state to begin with because they knew it would cause problems.

As for dustless blasting, I am not a fan and here is why: https://youtu.be/HKBpU20cR-M. Instead of just having dry dust to clean up like you would with normal blasting, the dustless blasting gets a dust slurry into all of the hidden areas and is going to be nearly impossible to remove. That dried slurry is going to trap moisture in the future.

At the end of the day, if you want to save a buck I would tackle removing of all the glass, trim, doors, seals, etc. yourself, but leave the paint stripping to the shop. The expense of stripping the old paint off is going to be a small percentage of the overall cost to repaint the car anyway.

I'm not sure how much of a make or break budget you have, but I understand material costs have gone up quite a bit lately. You may be surprised and change your plan once you talk costs to your paint guy. I paint my own and the last was less than $3 grand. But, I hear shops can be anywhere from about $8-20 grand. If your car is in decent shape (no rust), maybe you just need to sand and straighten out the waves you mentioned, prime and paint. But, some shops won't do that. They want to know what's under it all, so issues don't arise. If you don't do a color change, that save a lot since you won't need to pull your doors, etc. off. Another thing is an estimate is just that. You may find the painter call to say they ran into issues and it may cost more. or, depending how long it is in the shop, paint quoted this week can be very different several weeks out. Be prepared.

Sorry this is long winded.
I know your question is about removing paint, but that is usually just the beginning of a major project. I don’t know your car or the history, so based on experience, I naturally assume the worst.
1. Do you have a budget?
2. Have you done a thorough inspection of the car underneath to find out the condition of the doors, quarters and fenders? The top of the quarters above the rear bumper? Trunk drop offs? Outer and inner wheel housings? Floor pan? Even the frame rails?
3. Is your chrome and trim pristine? Nothing looks worse than worn trim on a new paint job.
4. Thoroughly research the shop you are going to use so you don’t get ripped off.

I ask because before you buy this tool you need to make of list of parts that are required for this restoration, the total amount may shock you, you need to be prepared. I had a couple cars that never got completed during my years because the owners ran out of money or their lives changed. I say restoration because you don’t know what is under that paint. Wavey doors and bondo in the quarters is a red flag for caution to me. And so is the vinyl top. I’ve been doing complete builds for almost 50 years and I always go through this with every owner and right now I’m guilty myself for under estimating my own project.

With covid parts prices have gone up considerably in the past 3 months, shipping is through the roof and delays are May through September right now for many restoration parts.
My preferred method is Aircraft Stripper and clean the remaining residue using 80 grit on a air sander. Use a grinder with 36 grit to remove the bondo (it will be a mess). To me, the Eastwood tool is a toy that will be very tiring after a few hours. If you are in Virginia, right now is not a good time to start, unless you have a heated garage 24X7 and can protect the metal with primer. The bare metal will start rusting in just a few days in this weather. Once the car is stripped you’ll be able to assess the job at hand. I would not disassemble any body panels until the car is stripped.

The Camaro below looks pretty nice in the “before” photo, it was a 3 year old paint job. Solid car underneath, we were just going to polish it when I noticed some bubbles on the rocker panel. Got in way more than estimated. You can’t cut corners restoring a valuable car such as a Z28 or a GTO.

The Mustang is a total basket case underneath. The owner had it at a shop that replaced partial quarters and front aprons. The wheel housings are shot, there is no floor left, torque boxes are gone. All the welds are edge welds, it’ll never hold up. Both quarters are cracking at the welds, and it hasn’t been on the road yet. I think the owner was too old to bend over to look at what wasn’t done. Very sad. The wheelbase is 1 3/8” longer on the left side. The floorpan has been on backorder since March 2021.

Just consider everything before jumping in.

I did not like the SCT because I found it too slow. As I said I always try razor blades first. If that doesn’t work I use my Dewalt 8” variable speed rotary buffer and 80 grit discs. Filler and thick paint might see 36 grit. Makes quick work of it. I also blast jambs etc.

One word of caution. Never sand over a body line. Only up to the body lines.

Don

I agree 100% , I will add they have a multitude of "barrels" to choose from.
This bad boy is 40 grit and will remove your paint, bondo, etc.
https://cdn-fsly.yottaa.net/60d0e018...2/p21171_2.jpg

I used this drum.

I used that same kind of stuff except in the form of discs for an angle grinder ... was amazed how fast it was ... took about ten disks to do the whole car, maybe eight hours of labor. Could strip a whole finder in about 45 minutes. Be careful around the leaded seam on the quarter ... it will take the lead off pretty quick.

I have the Eastwood SCT, and compared to other tools from Eastwood, it’s pretty stout. I have yet to strip a whole car with it, just individual doors and hoods and I’ve found that the black drum works the best for stripping paint (it’s also the most expensive).

I also like the 3m clean and strip discs on a slow speed sander, which appear to be the same material as the Eastwood black drum. I buy them in 7 and 9 discs and smaller discs with a rolock mandrel. This stuff works best at low rpm’s and light pressure.

I usually finish up by going over everything with a DA sander with 80-120 grit, just to even things out.

Dave

This may sound like I'm going against the general consensus, but, you don't always want to just strip a car to metal. In many cases, it's the thing you DON'T do.

I see so many think they are going to save money by doing some of the 'simple labor' only to make a mess and a much larger job than it should have been to begin with.

I see the look on the faces of body guys that 'come to take a look' at something someone has attacked, and it's of complete disgust most times.

Grinders, wheels, etc, can shink/stretch/heat metal/panels, and once that happens, it's hammer and dolly time, which can be a massive undertaking, and takes skill.

Leave the approach to the body guy, which he's most comfortable with, based on the level of job you want.

And there is a wide variety of 'levels' of body & paint. You can't just say 'Well I don't want a show car', because it's just like saying 'I never will race it'.

Some shops or body guys won't accept rollers, either, you need to talk to them BEFORE you even touch the car.

'Restoration' work is straight time and material, so reputable or not, it can take one person 20 hours to do an area when it can take another 200 hours, and you sign to pay for whatever it takes. Quotes don't mean jack.


.

X two!

I guess your opinion holds water with those that don't know much at all, and or have a big wallet.
1. If you are stupid enough to bring a whole running car to a "body shop" you Will get "straight time", which is more or less saying there is a "Hidden damage clause" because the body guy cant see the bare car.
2. So you want to strip the car. You should bag and tag all the trim / handles etc. You CAN strip the body WITHOUT warping. The SCT was designed to reduce the heat that a disc can easily give. ( I dont work for eastwood).
3. Most "body" guys will not give you a menu of prices because their NAME is on it. Most want to SEE the Metal, or primer on it.
N0NE will guarantee their work unless THEY start at the metal.
4. IF you strip to have others finish and paint, you are saving them a VERY messy job, and about 20 hours of Labor at say $100/hr.
There is $2,000 you can pay the block sanding guy to make the panels flat and nice.
5. Good resto/Body shops do One thing WELL. Its body work and paint.
Never have them re assemble a car You took apart. Do that at home with friends.
6. Rollers; I have "shopped" Rollers at many Resto shops, and body shops.
On a Trailer that the estimate can be done and car completely seen has
Always been acceptable and you Never get any hidden costs.. BUT, There
IS a way to PREP a ROLLER for an estimate.
Everything MUST FiT. Redo the hinges ( doors and hood), ALIGN the panels REAR to FRont. ALL Panels MUST be on car. Get the gaps as good as possible.
This finished Roller is called a PROOF OF CONCEPT.. Same as a Clay mock up
when the car was in design. You have Proved to the Body guy that this is NOT a pile of Parts, and they all fit as good as original. ( even if it needs a skin) .
When they know they dont have to do anything else, they can give a more honest estimate of time.
7. What you pay for
I have said this for years, have worked in a body shop as well.
You Spend 70% of your hard earned dollars on SANDING, HAND / BLOCK SANDING.
IF you Present a Aligned, assembled Rolling Shell, likely you'll spend Less and get a better job done, and faster, but You will be doing the grunt work, and alignment. An example.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...6&d=1643935090

Thank you for the denigrating opening remarks. It is possible you may have posted worthwhile information but I didnt get past the opening. It good to know nothing has changed here.

No offense intended at all!
My point was that what you said ( and I Did read it all) has a market,
and it is a Real market for many folks.. I shouldnt have assumed that none are here though. I am sorry you took offense to it.

Thank you everyone for the information...really gave me a lot to think about. I should be taking the car to the shop next week. A buddy and I did the floorpans and trunk pans over the summer so thats good to go. In speaking with the guy at the shop he said he wouldn't have a problem with me removing the trim, vinyl top and bumpers. He said if I wanted to start removing the paint, he wouldn't have a problem with me doing that. My neighbor is an old paint and body guy and I have a brother in law that use to do paint and body. I may give it a try under their watchful eye.

Now I know doing an engine compartment is a lot different than doing paint and body but I did do the engine compartment on my GTO by myself and it didn't come out too bad considering I had never done anything like this before. I guess I'll find out a little more once it goes in the the "estimate".

Finished

I just hope you don't get it all apart, eventually take it him for an estimate and find it's way more than you anticipated. Especially in todays environment as product prices and labor continue to rise. Hate to see another stalled project with good intentions. I find them for sale all the time.

tjs72lemans,

I have a pretty reasonable budget. I know it's going to be expensive to get it done right and I'm not going to half ass it. When I take it to the shop, they'll give me an idea of what I can and can't do. I certainly don't want to do anything that will make it more difficult or more expensive for me. If I have to, I'm prepared to have them do everything but if I can save a few bucks, I would like to!

Formulabruce,
Some good advice...thank you. I don't have an "unlimited" budget to get my car done. I know there are some issues with fender alignment, hood alignment and bondo on the quarters and doors. I'm not looking for a concourse restoration. The door are a little wavy and the there is some rust bubbles on the lower fender and doors. The paint and body work was done on my car over 17 years ago and it's actually holding up pretty well. Lord know what it's like under the paint but I'll soon find out. I'm not just going to hand the car over to them and tell them to have at it. I think there are some things that I can do to help lower the cost. I'm not scared to get a little dirty and certainly not scared some hard work. What I've learned since owning this car for the last 5 years is that half the fun of owning a car like this is learning and actually working on the car. I know some experienced guys that handed the keys to their car and they were ripped off by a paint and body shop. Really good advice...thanks again for taking the time to write all that!

Stripped this 68 GTO shell to metal in about six hours of work with these using an angle grinder, no warping, no problems ... just remember you aren't grinding metal you are removing paint.
I did sand blast areas like the firewall, trunk weatherstrip groove etc.

Kind of dirty work ... but it goes fast. I'd do it all day, every day for $100 an hour :)

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...3&d=1644211913

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...2&d=1644211622

Stripped area looks ready for metal work to me! Where'd you get those stripping discs?

They are all over Amazon ... for this job I just used some of the cheap ones ... which seemed to work just as well as the expensive ones.

I used a razor blade to get almost all of the paint off mine and followed with various abrasive type discs on a variable speed grinder for the remaining primer and filler. It's easier to get through once the paint is gone. I even used a wire cup on the grinder.