All Things Pontiac
 

I have a stash of Pontiac Documentation to share with Forum readers, makes for some great reading, and brings back memories.

As I post this stuff, feel free to weigh in with your car, stories, or memories.

Lets start with the History of Pontiac, Thunder Am Mag, Dec 1980.

Thunder Am Mag, Dec 1980.

Burt Reynolds, The Bandit

The legendary SD455.
Who wouldn't give their left n__ to own one?
Part 1 here

The legendary SD455.
Part 2.
Check out the 3rd Page/Attachment on the SD Rods. That price for them was back in 1981.
I was able to buy a set off a guy somewhere around 1978/79 for $200, and they were so pretty I hesitated to put them in my motor. But I did.

The Macho T/A.

Dear God, when I read this I ran to my closet, put on my Bell Bottom Jeans, and put the Bee Gee's on the stereo and boogied down to "Staying Alive":)

Anyone out there have one of these? I imagine they are somewhat rare, wonder how many were sold.

The 1976 Limited Edition, precursor to the '77 Special Edition.
What a beautiful car IMO. I have been to countless car shows and never seen one.
The 455 and T-Top option is really rare - only 110 built.

The 1961 Bonneville

That SD455 picture may have been at POCI Gettysburg back when. My car may be the furthest away. We were lined up for judging.

The 1977 Can Am.
This is a interesting article of a relatively rare car.
Especially the part regarding the Rear Spoiler issue, and the super rare units painted in Mandarin Orange.
Anyone got one of these?

Orange Can Am?

The Rare 1963 SD 421 Swiss Cheese Catalina.
Only 15 ever built. Frame bender until they fixed it.

"It was offered at Dana Mecum’s 2010 Original Spring Classic Auction, but did not sell with a high bid of $475,000 USD."

https://www.supercars.net/blog/1963-...-swiss-cheese/

Wow, never seen one of those???

Now - this is as Rare as they come -
The 1969 Convertible Trans Am - only (8) ever built.
Not sure if one has sold recently or ever at Mecums or Barret's, but I did find one was bid up to $1.9 M in 2016 at the Kissimmee Mecum Auction. Don't think it sold.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0116-22...m-convertible/

I saw a black one in the early 90's. Appeared to be original paint.

I know of one that's been all stripped down and repainted in orange. It still needs to be reassembled.

Did they make any that weren't white?

FYI,the Brothers in OR own 4 of the 8 convert 69 T/As along with one of the 2 69 T/A silver mule cars.You would have a field day at their museum!Tom

Wow! - That is like maybe $10M or more in valuation for (4) cars?.

Reading thru my old Pontiac Mags, I came across another blog on the (8) cars, and the VIN's were listed. At that time of the article writing (1980's), one of the (8) was unaccounted for.

But I found this blog attached on the "Pontiac Trans Am Forum".
The 8th car was found, and had spent a good deal of time in salvage yards, and was in bad shape. It seems it was found somewhere around 2014/2015, restored, and made its debut at the 2016 MCACN.

A great read!

https://www.pontiactransamforum.com/...onvertible.87/

The 1970-1/2 2nd Gen Trans Am.

Should be 14 built.

Unless you count this non swiss cheese 421 SD with aluminum.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...2&d=1509233948

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...3&d=1509234013

K

Hmmm - You Sir are correct.
The article in my attachments says 15, the URL link says 14.

Mr. Google, who of course is never wrong, says:

"Just 14 "Swiss cheese" Catalinas were built, going to established Pontiac drag racers, including Mickey Thompson, Union Park Pontiac, and Maselles at Packer Pontiac. .May 5, 2014"

And:
"Only 14 Swiss Cheese Catalinas were built by Pontiac, and only nine are said to exist today.
https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/...eese-pontiacs/

MT had 2 SC cars.Tom

Tom - I still am amazed at the Kahuna's GM had back then to release Aluminum Exhaust Manifolds. Exciting times.

Having worked at GM in Warren Tech Center for 30 years, things got more and more "conservative" in the 80's. Emissions choked 200 hp powertrains were the norm.

Things did not really get exciting until Corvette put out the first 400HP engine (Merc Marine DOHC) in 1990. Wow back then - 400 HP! I worked for the Corvette Platform back then and that was a really big deal.

Eventually the new norm in the Preproduction Prototype Shop was 600 hp CTSV's, ZR1 Super Vette's. and the ZL1 and Z28 Camaros. I remember when they were started up after final assembly with a roar we would all pause for a moment and pay homage.

Nowadays, a Whipple SC on a LS3 Camaro gets you 700 HP with room to spare, idles all day - with the AC blasting.

Those exhaust manifolds were approved way back in at least 1961!60 years ago!They had a all alu engine in at least 1959!Tom

My dad tried running those manifolds on the street and burned them up.

They had been patched and repatched, with repairs on top of patches, until he finally made a pair of tubular steel headers. They were really short, so much so that you could look up through the collector and see daylight.

Mac McKellar saw those headers and really like them and said "I'm going to design you a cam for those". So he did. He even stamped the production numbers on the end.

The Ramchargers protested Dad one time and made him tear down. They checked that cam on the tailgate of their station wagon, laying in V blocks and with dial indicators, and pronounced it OK even though it was bogus as hell.

K

I had the pleasure of working on a slant 6 Chrysler engine that was cast in the early 1960's. Aluminum bock and head. So all the OE's were giving a hard look at the new lightweight material for all sorts of uses. The "self porting" idea of the Pontiac exhaust manifolds was a really neat application!

My older friends that had knowledge of “happenings” back then say the Chrysler bunch were the biggest cheaters!!!!
I keep thinking of the Wayne county pro stock cluster. I don’t think we ever heard that whole story, and that’s a recent ordeal, nothing like the 60’s stuff....

Dad would tell them "I'll tell you every place I'm cheating if you do the same".

They never took him up on the offer, but he did notice it took three guys for them to take the spare out of their car.

K

I haven't talked to him for quite a while, but there's a guy here in the Minneapolis area running a set of the reproduction aluminum manifolds on his '63 Catalina. They were coated with Jet-Hot or one of the other similar products, and seemed to be holding up to street use. Of course, those kinds of coatings weren't available back when your dad was trying them.

If you were lucky enough to still have these manifolds as period correct, a jet hot or Ceramic coating in aluminum look would be the way to go, and have original cred at car shows. Hell, even if you still wanted to race with them.

The '71 - 72 455 HO T/A.
Article from Pontiac Mag Feb 1985.
What a great car, would love to own one. 480 Ft Lb Tq and .83 G in the corners - Impressive -stump pulling torque. That is what matters on the street
Not "very" Rare at 3402 total produced, with 1353 Manuals, but who wouldn't want one to show off!
I don't hardly ever see one at the many car shows here in MI.
Yeah - there were 455 "HO's" supposedly in 75-76 but at 4000 lbs and ~200 HP, the glory days were long gone. My Bro had a '76 455, and I and my '77 Bandit, and all was still cool given the stickers on the hood scoop, even at the anemic 200HP ratings..
Check out the '"Lady 'Bim" in black in the photo shoot. Guess that was hot in the '80's.....

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...tiac-trans-am/

As I stated in my Post #1:

"I have a stash of Pontiac Documentation to share with Forum readers".

Yeah - it may not be NEW info for some of us seasoned Pontiac aficionado's, but you may find it nostalgic and interesting reading, as some of the articles were written 30 - 40 years ago.

So as another certain Sticky Thread has gone "away" where I had posted some of this stuff, I will continue here for readers to ignore, or hopefully enjoy.

Here is a Article from the Pontiac Mag, August '83, on the "Rise and Fall of the GTO". Cool back history on the development with the GM players Wangers (came up with the idea for the GTO in 1962), Estes, and DeLorean.

Pages 1 - 3.

"Rise and Fall of the GTO"
Pages 4 - 6.

Sorry, that article was not that great, and should be relegated to the trash.

So, working my way chronologically thru my stash, some will be a good read, some a maybe not so much. I am just picking and choosing as we go.
Here is one of a number of articles on the "Ram Air V".

I probably posted a different article (a HO Publication Article) on this Engine in the Other Post, but it is buried deeper than a Alabama Tick:).

So there is some interesting commentary in this, and maybe somewhat subjective.

Like the comment - "To put it bluntly, the Ram Air V was a poor performing engine". No flow bench's back then? Caught up in the whole Tunnel Port thing.

And the Con Rod Vendor going bankrupt, - like was GM Purchasing asleep at the wheel? I read elsewhere that the RA V Rods would go out of round at Revs, maybe a little too beefy, or Rod Bolts not up to the task. Maybe the SD455 Rods were in fact the best Pontiac Rod ever...

The 1963 Grand Prix 421 HO.
Although not quite the beast like the 421 Super Duty - a hardcore 11.0 and 12.0:1 compression race engine- the 421 HO was a more suitable mill for street driving, boasting Tri-Power and 10.75:1 compression. The engine was much more streetable, and still churned out a massive 370 hp and over 460 lb-ft of torque.

I think there were 267 Built

What I heard for the unibody Chryslers.They would put lead weights in the frame that were greased good. The weights would slide forward (equal weight on front)then apon first burnout would slide to the rear for drag racing traction. Then scale check hit the brakes to slide forward.

The XP833 Concept Car.
A mid 60's Pontiac 2 seater, that bit the dust as the Bean Counters and the Vette Platform said "no way".

Just to be clear - Mr Wangers was never a PMD employee.

He worked for the advertising agency with the Pontiac account, which was McManus, John and Adams.

The idea for putting the 389 cu in engine in an intermediate sized vehicle came as a result of a Saturday morning hoist review, where the vehicle chief engineer pitched the idea to DeLorean.

Incidentally, at the time of my retirement, we were still doing these hoist review/brain storming sessions at Milford. If I had been there that day, they both would have turned to me and said "...when can we drive it?".

K

That is great clarification, and input Mr. Seymore. I missed that detail in the story, and always assumed Wangers was a GM man and "Mr. GTO" given all of the articles and spotlight he received. But - on page 1 of the attachments, it says "worked for the division as a product planner", and "Chief AD Man over at Pontiac's AD Agency". So that is confusing? Exactly what part did he play?

The "Top 10 Best Pontiacs Built in the 60's".

Man - could we argue the subjective ranking in this list?

I am not a '60's expert, although I did own a '67 Tempest OHC 6 as my 2nd vehicle, and it kicked serious A** cause it was so light and handled fantastic. I totaled it

And I remember as a little shaver my Dad (worked for GM) would bring home Tri-power Bonnies and Cats, and they would go almost 25 MPH w/o stepping on the gas pedal, and he loved scaring the crap out of me and the Bro.. Guess the idle was pretty high?

Having been involved with the tunnel port engines for the last 18 or so years I have learned to take pretty much all the old articles with a grain of salt.JMHO,Tom

Yep - right you are. These are so far from the Pontiac Mag as I work thru them all, so some of these may be various writers doing dubious research on a topic probably.
On the other hand, the HO articles, Nunzi, and Herb Adams stuff is more based on hard experience.

"Worked for the division as a product planner" would be incorrect.

"Chief ad man over at Pontiac's ad agency" would be spot on.

K

Mikes Reply: From my recent reading about Transmission's, an added washer on an Automatic at the Booster Regulator before the Pump will do the same thing, at least it did when I tried it. JMO

"Track Cats".
Early Super Duty race cars.
From Pontiac Mag Dec '85.

I would agree with the above comment.

I would also agree with Keith Seymore's comments as he and his dad were campaigning a Royal Pontiac Car in 1964 and 1965.

The rest of it is "creative marketing" and/where Jim Wangers was a PRO on the subject.

Nuff Said.

Tom V.

My dad was an engineer at the Tech Center and brought a blue one with black interior home in '71 with an auto. I loved that car mostly for the cornering. I had a '71 Z28 at the time and the Trans Am was so superior in every way. He had it for a few days, and back then everywhere we went, people stared at it like they'd never seen anything that wild before with all the spoilers. This was in the Motor City mind you. We took it on Woodward and it was pretty quick. These Trans Ams were rare then.

When I started at Shaffo Pontiac in Royal Oak after Royal shut down they had a brand new '74 SD Formula sitting in stock well into 1974 when Fresard took over the dealer. I remember it was white, with a blue vinyl top and a white/blue interior. I don't remember the trans. As ugly as it was I wanted to buy it, but at $7,400 I couldn't live with the colors and I figured I would be too upside down redoing a brand new car. I had a '73 GP at the time and was happy with it. It finally sold as the '75 models came out, not sure what it sold for. The VIN on it was handy to order SD engine parts at the time.

You mean there was more than one?


:eek:


http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1648326549


(critter's old 74 SD TA)


:)

You wouldn't still have the VIN for it? (or PHS)


:)