Combinations running STD flange 4150s on Wenzler Gutsram
 

I'm interested to hear about any combinations running Gutsram and 4150 flange carbs instead of 4500 flange. I have a nice pair of center-squirter 660s and will have to run them until I get a pair of 4500s or 1 for the nice Victor I have. Not sure they'll be adequate, but 2 660s on the Gutsram will be it initially..

I think Bill Blair was running high 9s NA in his 63 421 SD tempest with a bathtub and a pair of 660s.FWIW,Tom

We've built a few combinations using 4150's. The Grocery Getter guys made big power using a couple of 4150 HP Holleys with nitrous on a Gutsram, maybe they will chime in.

Are you race only? What are your goals?

How much Power and what cylinder heads, or better yet what is the combo?
I have run a Wenzler Original and a Gutsram for over 20 years with 4150's, Carter AFB's etc.

Perfect! You're just the guy I need to talk to!

Mine is a new 474 combo...so power unknown.

KRE HPs 380 CFM @ 750 lift. 74cc chamber

factory 455 block 4.211 bore - w/shrouding notches

4.25 stroke eagle crank

estimated compression ratio 11.2 to 11.5

comp cams solid roller 760 lift - 108 separation - 271/278 @.050 - installed at 104

Matched Gutsram with 2 660s

3300 pound early Firebird w th400 w/trans brake, Coan 5-5500 converter and 3.73

9x28.5 bias ply slicks with your basic Calvert suspension, bars, shocks and split monos, Global West Del-A-Lum low friction bushings front and back....stock shock mountings...no anti roll bar and running shackles..

What kind of power and ET/MPH were/are you making with your various 4150 flange Gutsram combos? ..Edit...just read your signature....NICE! Was the 9.77 with a Wenzler 1 or a Gutsram? What heads are you running?

Thanks Paul. Street driven toy track/car. For now to break into 9s.

If it is a street driven car the 660's won't be super friendly driving around but they will work good enough to achieve your goals at the track.

See what Carter AFBs Mike has run,they will be a lot more street friendly and I bet run as close as the 660s.Tom

Yeah...the 660s run real rough under any kind of light throttle no load cruise situation, but I have found them to idle quite well and actually very easy to drive on the street. I ran them with a Wenzler 1st design T-ram on the street for several years. Its just that the Gutsram runners are so voluminous I was concerned the 660s might starve that manifold. That and the small flange makes the compromise of centering the carb over the bank-to bank offset port openings in the plenum that much more of a compromise/ carb barrel to port alignment problem. The Dominator/4500 flange covers that offset problem a lot better.

That was with the Wenzler 1. The Gutsram on my car was about .05 slower. I am running Std Port E heads that flow 345CFM.

My combo is 4.190 bore with a 4" stroke 990 Crank. Factory block, 4 bolt billet caps, Comp 274/280@ .050 with a .440 lobe on a 108LSA. 1.65 Crower Stainless Rockers. 2" Heddman Headers, TH400 with a 5200 PTC Converter and 3.90 gear. Full interior, 3.5" full exhaust and Stock Suspension. I have run 2- 600CFM Carters, 2-750 CFM Holleys, 2 -800CFM Edelbrock Carbs, but the car has run the fastest with 2 Carter Competition Series 9755S 750CFM carbs.
I shift around 7200/7400RPM.
It idles well and drives really good on the street. Most trips are around 20 to 40 miles to a cruise in or to take my 10yo daughter to lunch. Pretty docile on the street and highway about 65MPH.
Heres a video


https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=...mance%20injuns

Cleaning the shop area last night found a 9/16" UHMW spacer that I ran on the Gutsram intake. Due to height limits in a stock chassis/hoodline car I used a flat aluminum top for the AFB's. The spacer went between the intake and top for more plenum volume. With the spacer I picked up almost a tenth.
I have also found with both intakes a Shear Plate under the carbs is worth about a tenth,

Thanks Mike. That's good info, re the spacer and the shear plates. Even with a 6 inch cowl hood, the Gutsram on top of KRE HPs leaves very little room for any type of air filter arrangement ...mainly the front carb is the problem as the hood is lower there. Lots to experiment with. I want some shear plates that vector each carb barrel to its respective port opening in the plenum. That barrel/port alignment aspect on the Gutsram is terrible with the smaller 4150 flange with each bank having an end intake manifold port that looks like it might not get its equal share of air/fuel from the carb. Tempted to go really old school and mount carbs at an angle; if were not for having come up with new linkage .

And btw, I never knew what shear plates for a carb were. Thanks to you and google I do now and they look like something to experiment with

Wenzler Gutsram outer bolt hole location
 

It probably would have been easier to tap and drill the heads but once I realized how thick the port wall at the flange end was I decided to remove the material from the manifold and make room for standard bolt pattern outer bolt holes. Now the manifold will bolt to standard pattern non-wide-port heads without drilling and tapping new bolt holes in the head

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...5&d=1646860659

Probably lost 5lbs off the intake.... which is a good thing.

We made about 900 hp NA with the Gutsram and 4150's. It ran terrific! From a slow roll, I could give the throttle a quick poke and spin the slicks on dry pavement. IOW, throttle response was crisp. The engine was much better behaved during the big burnouts. We got rid of a sheet metal Intake with a big plenum that loved to stall at the end of a burnout.

Eric

No Kidding! I can actually feel the difference in weight when I lift it.

The port walls at the flange end are literally 3/4 of an inch thick. This is a 1/2 cutter fully buried ....and as a bonus I didn't create any new holes to patch up with epoxy.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...8&d=1646864060

Thanks Eric...What size 4150s were they?

Early HP 950's.

Confession....I didn't remember the size....had to ask Mike :rolleyes:

Eric

Wish I had a set of those, but until I can get something bigger' we're gonna find out how a pair of 660s will do.

I think 950HP's would be overkill. 750's seem to work the best IMO, but every combo is different.
I made over 780HP with the 750 AFB's on a 440CID set up. In the class I run I know quite a few Mopars and Pontiacs that swapped from AFB's/Edelbrock carbs to HP Holleys as well as Quick Fuel Carbs. They never ran any faster and most went back to the AFB style for ease of tuning. I think the 660's will be fine with some jetting and the choke horns milled off. Sub Stacks seem to help the 660's out. I think you would like the simpleness of AFB's or Edelbrocks, not to mention the ease of jet/rod changes.

My 660 airhorns are removed. I installed aftermarket secondary metering "plates" that accept standard Holley jets and have removable air bleeds. Orifice set screw style air bleeds. Ran them on Wenzler 1 T ram and like them. I wanted to keep my Wenzler 1 matched up to the 48 heads they ran on otherwise would have liked to tried it on this new 474 high port combo. Cant wait to get out to the track to visit "the booth of truth"

With those mods they should work well. The secondary plates will help. I ran the 660's on a Warrior Tunnel Ram years ago.