4th Gen Firebirds
 

My son is nearing driving age, so I’ve been poking around looking for something to replace my daily driver which will get passed down to him. 4th Gens have been catching my eye, maybe because I wasn’t able to afford one when they were new.

The later LS cars are obviously more desirable, but I’m finding myself drawn towards the earlier 93-96 LT1 cars like a Firehawk, 25th anniversary, WS6 or a Comp T/A. I’d love something I could drive and maybe show.

Anyone have any experience with these?

No experience, but 4 th gene are waaaay better than 3rd gens. A friend has a 2002 Camaro, awesome car!!

I have one. Its a really good driving car. LS1/4L60 car, a 6M would be more fun. Most have or had cracked door panels, headlight motor gear failure, bad window motors, PASS key system failures and horns go bad. My low mileage car suffered all these issues but otherwise they are good as far as my experience goes.

I test drove a new red ‘95 Firehawk 6-speed convertible. IIRC it was around $25k which was way out of my league at the time but I thought it was cool of the salesman to let me take it out. Turns out it was a pretty rare car.

I recently found a black ‘95 Firehawk languishing in a driveway in town that got me thinking about these again.

What is the parts availability for these things?

I bought 3 4th gens new. '94 Firehawk, '97 Z28, '2002 Z28, all were daily drivers even with snow tires. I have owned every generation F body and the 4th gens were the most fun drivers. I really enjoyed them. I commuted 105 miles per day on these, so reliability was an issue for me, obviously different from a toy. I sold all of them at around 150k miles. But they were not cheap to maintain.

Whatever engineer thought it was a good idea to put the distributor behind the water pump. A lot of moisture issues. Not fond of LT1's. Dexcool was a problem with gaskets on the LS. American Axle rear ends are known for bad quality, the '02 was plagued with side bearing issues, 3 times under warranty. At 60k I finally put a 20k mile rear end in it. The '02 needed a trans at 95k. Catalytic converter issues are common on the LS cars and were covered by an extended warranty. These cars have all the common repair issues that modern cars have. The roof skins on all 4th gens are SMC. In 1998 GM changed the adhesive that glues the roof to the structure. The newer glue leaches through the roof skin and creates a gooey mess. GM stopped warranty on this in 2005. The plastic body (except for some hoods and quarters) are nice for rust free. Rust is prone on the quarters. The doors are also composite and if someone has tinkered inside, the window regulator mounting holes could be shot.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1647814730

Had a 2000 WS6 T/A as a daily for a few years. Jet black with dark tinted windows, chrome C5 Z06 wheels, long tubes no cats into a Borla exhaust. It got a ton of attention, was comfortable, and wasn't bad on fuel if you're into that kinda stuff.

I wouldn't mind owning another.

I owned a 93 TA and daily drive it for years. Fun car. As mentioned, the distributor can be a problem. I did also replace all the tail light bulb sockets. I have been looking for a 98-2002 ws6 for a while also. The price has really gone up on the ls1 cars.

I have a low mile '96 WS6. They are great cars until you have to replace the opti-spark and do a tune up.

One of the local guys I knew bought a Sunset Orange Firehawk with a 6-spd manual. I drove it and was pretty impressed, looked into buying a new 02 WS6 convertible in 2002. A job layoff killed those plans, but about six years later I found the exact car I would have ordered. It was a low mileage 2002 Sunset Orange WS6 convertible with a 6-spd manual. I bought it in Virginia, and after about two hours in the driver's seat, it was making my leg hurt. The newer cars are incredible, they're smooth, they handle great, and they have all the bells and whistles, and tons of performance.

I had a degenerating hip for the last twenty years, so after a couple of years of ownership it was uncomfortable to drive. I don't like sitting down into a recess, I prefer to sit on a surface with no pressure from the side. I finally had one hip replaced, but the other is getting worse. Were it not for the seats, I would love this car. I bought a Saturn Sky Redline a couple of years ago, and while the seats aren't great, they're much more comfortable than the WS6 T/A.

For a young person, it would be an awesome car. I can't speak to how well they hold up over the long run, but I really enjoyed mine. Hopefully after my second hip is replaced, I'll be able to drive it more.

My advice, stick with a 98-02, the LS1 will last a long time with routine maintance, and has plenty of power stock. The weak link is the transmission, expect to replace it around 150k unless it was babied.

I have several:
94 25th anniversary
95 Firehawk 6 speed
97 WS6 Formula convertible (1of 42)
99 30th anniversary
02 Firehawk 6 speed

As others have said the 98-02 (really 99-02) are the best, most reliable cars. Fast out of the box and very few issues.

However, don’t let the LT1 (93-97) cars scare you. Yes the opti spark is a weird design and used to cost a ton of money to replace. Now that MSD makes one it’s much more affordable and reliable. I believe that a 6 speed LT car with long tubes is every but as fun as an LS car.

I have found the special edition cars to hold significantly higher values and be a little more fun as they get noticed.

Parts availability is pretty good. They made hundreds of thousands of these and reproduction parts are increasing every day.

Appreciate the input. The LT1 is kind of a drawback compared to the reliability and extensibility of an LS, but I've replaced optisparks before and know what I'd be in for. I also like the limited production numbers of the earlier SLP cars.

I've found a couple nice low milage automatics, but if I pick one up I think it's going to be a 6 speed. We'll see what's out there.

Here’s a pic of my 95 hawk with my dads TTA at the TA Nationals cruise.

This car was true to the Firehawk design - hard top 6 speed formula. Great car that has over 180,000 miles of straight up abuse on it.

Not sure if I would give a young inexperienced driver a 4th gen T/A.. especially one with a 6 speed. These cars get loose very easy. If my parents gave me one when I was a teenager... it would've more than likely gotten wrecked.

This car would be for me. My son gets the Kia :D

BTW, I've enjoyed the Kia. The little 2.0 turbo has some pep. Got a new engine under warranty about 20k miles ago so it's good to go for a while.

I had a 99 and a 02 TA for company cars,best cars I ever had for daily drivers.Tom

Sounds like you worked for a pretty good company 😀

One before was a 96 impala!Tom

My daily driver is a 96 Roadmaster currently at 242,xxx miles. I went through a couple unstable Opti-Spark distributors until I bought one from Petris Enterprises in Scottsboro AL. Chis Petris is well known in Corvette circles.

I had a new 95 Firehawk for a couple years. I still marvel that I never got killed or arrested in it. Bought it in Kissimmee FL, they ordered it modeled after the purple brochure car that Reggie eventually wrecked. The brochure car had been at s car show by the Wide Track Warriors club.

Funny story, car is in the hands of it's fifth or sixth owner in a small MN town. Ethan was a couple years away from getting his drivers license when he acquired the car. He tracked me down and I drove to meet him a year or so ago while I was on as business trip to Fargo. His dad and a couple uncles are all GTO guys.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=853678 and I just sold car #82 last month. This car looks and drives like new.

Mike

I've always loved the look of the 4th Gen, in particular the makeover in '98 with that Ramair front end. Not to mention the 30th Ann.
Finally picked one up a few weeks ago.. it's a little bit of a fixer upper but great bones.
It is for my oldest daughter who just turned 15 and got her permit, Dad's first car was a T/A so why not hers too :) Anyways it is a good light project for her to help out on.
I like them so much I may just have to trade my Challenger for one or trade it to her for hers lol
Best of luck finding what you are looking for, they are great cars.

I just purchased my first one last week, 94 Firehawk #448. I'm loving it so far, 18K miles, 6spd, and a procharger! Lots of fun!

Nice! That's in line with what I'm looking for. Where did you find it?

If I get my courage up, I'll knock on the door of the one I found locally. Last time I saw it, it was pretty rough around the edges. It's currently under a cover so I suspect they were tired of getting asked about it.

I'm seeing lots of nice autos, but the 6 speeds seem to be harder to come by. I also want t-tops which seems to be hit or miss. There's a really nice low mile Comp T/A I've been considering, but I prefer the Formula styling of the Firehawk and it's an auto.

I forgot to mention the oil consumption problem on '99-'01 LS engines. My '02 was okay, but my friends '01 at around 5k miles started using a quart of oil every 800 or fewer miles. He had to have the dealer check the oil weekly, and only they could add oil. Since his car didn't fall within the parameters of the TSB, it was not covered under warranty. TSB below.

Higher Than Expected Oil Consumption
(Replace Rings and Engine Valley Cover)
#01-06-01-023A
Subject: Higher Than Expected Oil Consumption (Replace Rings and Engine Valley Cover)
Source: Chevrolet Dealer Technical Service Bulletin
Number: 01-06-01-023A
1999-2001 Chevrolet Camaro

1999-2002 Chevrolet Corvette

1999-2001 Pontiac Firebird

with 5.7L. Engine (VINs G, S -- RPOs LS1, LS6)

This bulletin is being revised to add model years for the Corvette, information on the LS6 engine, and parts information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-023 (Section 6 - Engine).

Condition

Some owners may comment on higher than expected oil consumption. When checked the oil consumption could be in the range or 400-600 miles per quart (700-1000 km/L).

On the LS6 engine only, the technician may find oil behind the engine throttle plate and in the intake manifold.

Cause

The cause for this condition may be an interaction between the piston rings and the cylinder bore in vehicles that are operated at higher RPMs -- typically manual transmission vehicles driven in a manner where the engine is frequently or consistently operating at greater than 3200 RPM.

On the LS6 engine only, the engine has a unique aluminum valley cover that has composite oil separating baffles and PCV plumbing incorporated. In some cases, the PCV baffles may not be properly sealed to the valley cover, causing oil to enter the PCV system.

Correction

On the LS6 engine only, replace the engine valley cover if oil is found behind the throttle or intake manifold before replacing the piston rings. Refer to Engine Valley Cover Replacement in the Engine Mechanical - 5.7L subsection of the Corvette Service Manual.

A new set of piston rings is currently available through GMSPO. The new rings are part of a complete piston ring kit. Install only the number 2 compression ring and the oil expander ring from the piston ring kit. All other rings in the kit should be discarded.

Important

Do not dress or hone the cylinder bore. Nothing should be done to change the bore finish for this condition.
Changing the bore finish may aggravate the condition.

Refer to the Repair Manual for appropriate ring removal and replacement procedure.

The number 1 compression ring and the upper and lower oil expander rails are re-used because they are already broken in for the bore that they are in. The new number 2 compression ring is made with a very sharp edge that will break in quickly.

Changing only the piston rings noted, with no change in driving style, should change oil consumption to an acceptable level. Changes in driving style that reduce the amount of time spent at higher RPMs will also positively affect oil consumption.

In addition to the standard size piston ring kit listed below, a 0.25 mm oversized piston ring kit is available. The oversized piston ring kit should only be used in those rare instances where the cylinder bore size has been machined larger to accomodate the 0.25 mm over sized piston rings.

Parts Information

Part Number Description Quantity
12568002 Valley Cover 1
88984247 Ring Kit, Piston 8
Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty use:

Labor Operation Description Labor Time
J0250 Manifold or Gasket Intake - Replace Manifold Use Published Labor Operation Time
J1307 Piston, Rod and/or Rings -- Replace Both Banks Use Published Labor Time
End of Bulletin #894549
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.


© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

There's a nice 4th gen anniversary model on BaT right now...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ign=2022-03-23

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...?fit=940%2C627

I love those blue wheels. The previous owner of my 30th had them restored and they are just painted. They don’t have near the same look

Mine showed up on FB market place. Lucky for me it was close so I went and looked at it and made on offer. He had already put it on E-bay so I waited for the auction to end and it didn't sell. He called me back and accepted my offer. They are out there but the 6spd t-top cars are a little harder to find. Be patient, buy the nicest low mileage car you can afford!
Good luck!

If you like the LT cars you should be able to get a pretty good deal

The procharger sounded familiar, I must have seen the listing. Enjoy!

I used to ignore them, but the LT cars have definitely grown on me. I think it's the lower production and "simpler" styling. I love the original Ram Air hoods on the earlier Formula body. Hoping I can find a gem out there for a reasonable price that will make for a fun cruiser I could show on occasion.

Still hunting for that 4th Gen. To be honest, I’m a little surprised by the prices of these cars. Nice lower milage ‘98-‘02 WS6s and Firehawks asking prices are around or over $30k. Even LT1 cars are in the mid-20s. Not sure if that’s reflective of the used car market and the prices will settle or it’s a signal of their collectability. Maybe both. Wondering if it’s better to wait things out a bit more.

I have this WS6 listed on ebay. No reserve 26,000 mile car for $16,000. Nice clean car .. automatic hardtop. Most stick cars are beat and most t-top cars have nasty interiors..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275384149784

The 4th gen Fbody are fun cars.

I remember the first one I drove , that was in 1995, back when I was racing SCCA GT class Third Gen F-bodies on week ends and was driving a second gen as my fun car.

Back in 1995, I was really not a fan of the "new" camaro design and somewhat looked down on em for the over abundance of plastics inside out, the still crappy interior materials and the engine tucked so far back in the engine bay making it hard to service.

So we're in Montreal Canada, August 1995 and meet this young and beautiful barmaid one night at a local bar, where she worked. Looooong conversations led to her telling me about her ride, she had a camaro . It turned me on instantly!, I asked what year... then she said it was a "new" 4th gen one, a 1995, and stick shift to top it off !

I was in love, and the fact that she had some of the largest breasts id seen had nothing to do with it, I swear...

After telling her about the beauty of Cape Cod, she was really curious about the east coats and ocean that she never seen before. I offered to take her to Cape Cod at the end of her shift which ended at 3 am...To my great surprise she said "yeah lets do it"!

I remember her car was hard top, manual 5 speed and the 3900 series V6 not the more common 3.4 liter. Color was some plum like color Gm had in the 90s.

Driving the thing I was very impressed how tight and smooth that new f-body was, precise steering and good brakes too. It was surprisingly peppy with the manual and the 3.8L V6, it totally changed my negative perception of the new chassis.

After we crossed the US border, she slept most of the trip only to wake up as I was parking at the beach in Woods hole MA. We had a little fling that lasted a couple days driving up Maine's back to Canada.

Actually the car proved so smooth that I got a ticket on the way back, for 91 mph in a 55 zone on I-89 in Vermont just before the border...

Many years later I came across this Sebring Silver 1999 WS6 Formula coupe, M6. All original with 80k on the clock...

Knowing that specific model was the smallest production Formula ever made, I stayed in touch with the owner until I he was ready to sell.
***(Only 113, 1999 Formula Coupe M6 ever made, only 10 made for Canada and most likely the only one in Sebring Silver in Canada)

Also the fact that these cars were assembled just 40 minutes from my hometown, that I knew Zeke's who was installing the SLP packages on those for GM, was also adding to the interest.

I drive the thing on occasions and drive it the way it was designed for...

I prefer the 4th gen birds more than Camaros, just from a design standpoint. I like formulas more than trans am for the lightness and more subtle design , even if a 99 formula WS6 has really nothing subtle about it...

Peter

I saw that one - looks nice! Like the color combo a lot and you're relatively local to me. The price is right, but an automatic and no t-tops held me off. You're right about the interiors being rough around the edges on t-tops and 6 speed cars being used. Good 6 speed cars command a premium.

Car is still available. Let me know if you change your mind. It won't hurt my feelings if I keep it as it is a very nice car.

I had a '97 WS6 6spd that was a lot of fun. Same general issues as already mentioned. Sold it with 18K miles to a LEO. Although the LS is more desirable, I would think the LTs could be had for a better deal.

Miss my '69 GTO also.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1658944937

Here is one off our local Craigslist identical to mine:

https://houston.craigslist.org/ctd/d...508813261.html

These cars have been on Hagarty’s top 25 list for 10 years. They seem to just keep going up.

I still find myself drawn to the LT cars even if they're not as desirable. IMO Firehawk felt more limited and genuine to the 93-97 cars, whereas on the LS cars it's mostly an appearance thing. I also prefer the styling of the earlier cars, I love those ram air hoods and the air filter staring you in the face when you open the hood. They're also generally lower production.

Kind of slim pickings out West right now as far as I can tell. There's a few '99-'02 Firehawk coupes for sale in the low $30s. The manual LT Firehawks I've been able to find out here are rough around the edges even if the milage is on the lower side. There was a Comp T/A on the central coast up for sale a few months ago for $19k in fantastic condition. I let it slide because it was an auto. Kind of regretting that now. My wishlist of 6 speed, t-tops and leather tied to a well kept example at a sensible price is harder than I thought to find so maybe it's time to loosen my requirements.

I started looking across the country but not sure how I feel about dealing with transports and a remote purchase.

4th gens are so much fun - just fantastic bang for the buck.

My wife and I had a 94 1LE for a couple of years - ran it in as many autocross events as we could. We drove it back and forth to track days and autocross events and it never left us stranded. The LS cars were generally faster, but LT1's are quick enough - and they sound fantastic at full song.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...6_Small(1).jpg

There is a ton of aftermarket support for the 4th gen. platform. Plug and distributor changes can be a pain on the LT1's, but they are definitely do-able if you can turn a wrench.

In my opinion LT cars sound better too

I just shipped a new Raptor from Florida to San Diego ($3,200) with no issues, also shipped 4 other cars this year from various N.E. locations to Florida, again no issues. You can negotiate rates...
If you're interested, I still have Comp T/A #006 still for sale with 16k miles.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=853678

Mike

That’s a very nice comp TA

Thanks, interesting side note, I owned car #82 (35k miles) and it was a T-top 6-speed car and the coupe handles much better than the T-top car. The difference was night and day.

I'm also open to reasonable offers.

Mike

My 95 Firehawk is a hardtop and I agree 100%. My 02 Firehawk felt sloppy until I put subframe connectors on it.

That is a really, really nice Comp and would totally fit the bill. The potential $3k+ shipping coast to coast sure adds a premium though.

PM sent.

There is a really nice '97 for sale in Oshkosh, WI. It is a black 6 s[eed with very few miles. The body is straight and chrome rims are completely free of pitting. I think the price is around $12,500.

Get an LS
 

I’ve had my 94 TA GT since new, November 1993. Shoulda sold it in 2001 and got a new one with the LS. So much cheaper to make MORE POWER, the aftermarket is frozen for LT parts, no development for years.
Spend the premium on the 98+

My $0.02

Here is one in Seattle

https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/c...516837979.html

Another one:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/c...515042522.html

I'm currently working with mmarx to pick up his Comp T/A :D

I know the LS cars are probably the better bet all around, but I just can't get over my soft spot for the LT cars and this one is just so nice!

I looked at this '00 over the weekend and it was not as advertised which steered me back towards the Comp.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38503860499...kAAOSwmf1i6Hte

Broken dash, cracked door panels, broken a/c and radio. Not to mention the goofy AutoMeter tach. New rear tires and shorty headers were a clue that the 12k miles were hard ones. We were pretty far apart on what I was willing to give and what they wanted ($25k).