Last drive for the RAIII
 

Sad day in way. The RAIII drove it's last 35 miles to the shop this morning. She will go into storage in my shop and the new drivetrain will go in. I'm sad to see her go but very much excited about the new drivetrain. That should be about a month or so if all goes well. And that'll be a long month...

Ls conversion?

Nah, not that bad...

IAII block with E-heads and specs per my signature line. I will still consider it to be Pontiac powered. Not all may agree but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. :)

Didn't you say you were going to store it in MY garage!?

Har-har.

(I really don't need it, I have too many engines ect as is right now)

LOL.

All that extra HP will transform that car. I have owned 2 Ram Air III stock engine cars. Great engines, but the difference in torque between 1800-3000 RPM's will be amazing if you can get any traction. ENJOY!

I have to ask is this a numbers matching RAII car?

Nope. But even if it was, I'd still do it. I'm keeping the motor and the M20. Nothing I'm doing is irreversible so it can always go back in if I ever were to sell it and someone wants that. In fact, since it's a car I drive, it makes more sense to take the original stuff out to protect it rather than run it and risk breaking it. At least that's what I think.

Also, I'm keeping everything totally stock looking under the hood. The E-heads will be the biggest giveaway but I got the stealth option from Butler so that helps a little.

I'll have to see if I can program the traction control software in the CPU connected to my right foot to do that. :)

I thought you'd connected with the owner of the car the motor was originally in? No planned re-union then?

I get it and it’s your car do as you wish. Just was curious if it was original or not. I raced my car for years myself so I get it I ended up building a different car in the end because I didn’t want to hurt the original car. Couldn’t cage it or mini tub it or anything, so made sense to build a new body and drive train. In the end.

What is the bore size you are using on the IAII? Must be smaller for a 468 ci motor.

Yes, I got the block in the small bore size, 4.145. The final bore will be 4.185.

Yes that’s what I heard , One of the members here helped you find the car your engine came out of (WS motor ) and it was going back into the original car . what happend ?

Well, not exactly, since I was never looking for the car it came from. But, regardless, I just decided not to sell it.

It isn’t that you were looking, it’s that it was found and reuniting such a RARE car with its numbers matching motor is both rare and an honor. That’s how I feel anyway

What a shame not to reunite your ‘spare’ non original engine with the original car it came out of. It’s so rare that that happens and chances are you’re never going to reinstall it given the sheer pleasure you’ll get out of the new motor, let alone the expense of building it. I would think with the money you could sell it for, you’d be able to buy any stock RAIII block you like, if for some reason you feel like you need a spare non original block to keep with the car. Oh well, hopefully that motor will reunite itself back with its original chassis after your stewardship ends. Things tend to work out in the end I suppose. FWIW.

Wow, that is too bad. I hope it wasn’t over money. This was the needle haystack situation. Maybe someday you will reconsider and the motor can be reunited with the car.

Not so simple. And not about F_____g money.

Congrats on your new motor. Excellent idea since you don't have the original motor.

I do have to say that I am puzzled. Why are you not reuniting the spare motor with the owner of the matching number car? If it's not money, you just want to taunt the owner of the car? Why the attachment to a non original motor? I think owning a car knowing that you have someone else's motor is incredibly hard to get over especially if everyone else knows it. I hope you reconsider that. You don't need that kind of bad JUJU and reputation for a motor.

Surely you can find another WS for you car.

Guys, I wanted to stay out of this;
But after a half dozen posts, I'd feel like an arse to stay completely silent.

I have spoken with "jhein" a bunch offline, and will say that he seems like a real good guy.

Could I ask that this other WS motor discussion please be dropped;
It's his motor, and none of us have any say in what he does with it.
His car may not have it's numbers matching motor, but this engine is numbers correct - and regaurdless, he has decided to keep it.
I think it's prudent to keep a correct motor for this car around.

I will also stick my neck out to say this;
Some of what I came to understand seperate from this forum made it seem like that other discussion quite possibly wasn't as it was being presented publicly.

What's that old saying(?);
If it seems too good to be true, that's probably because it isn't true.

I’m VERY impressed with this post.
It’s impressive that one would feel this way. Maybe after the car is together something will change . If it doesn’t that’s up to the engines current owner, it sucks but I’m sure there’s a reason .( Maybe the owner of that engine only trusts that machine shop or whatever. )
I know I’d sure like to have my original block if I could find it, so I certainly feel for the owner of the car that is missing it
At the same time I’m sure the owner of the engine has his reasons . Let’s hope that there’s a solution there somewhere .

I kind of wish I hadn’t asked (first) now but I’m sure someone else would have, and I didn’t know anything about the former talks about the correct vin block and car being reunited .

"Could I ask that this other WS motor discussion please be dropped;"


The WS is the elephant in the room.... As I initially stated, I am very happy that a bad ass motor is going into his car, but its really hard to argue sympathy in a situation where one has the ability to reunite a motor with the born with car, when money isn't a factor AND another WS could be used in its place. I can read between the lines and see there are some feelings here probably on both sides, but someone could mediate a deal here.

If not, the original post is accurate. It IS a sad day.

I've been avoiding this discussion because in order for me to defend myself I'd have to say some things about other members that I don't want to have to say. And I'm still not going down that path. All I'll say is that I decided not to sell and I have good reasons.

I think it's interesting the way that some people seem eager to attack me here. Accusing me of taunting people and even invoking Voodoo curses on me and my car. That's pretty hilarious actually. Makes me wonder who they are, and who their associates are, maybe posting under multiple names? Who knows.

As was said earlier, things are not always as they seem.

...

You are on a public forum so you should expect feedback.. I didn't attack you. I just asked an extremely obvious question....why you have chosen not to give the man the motor for his car. Many people know me on the forum. Feel free to pm me and we can talk off line.

Maybe someone who has another numbers correct (not matching) WS motor that is either rebuildable or professionally rebuilt can step forward.

Not knowing all the facts, that could possibly end this predicament.

Would be ironic if someone actually had the original engine from jhein's car.

I give congrats for new engine.wohoo and congrats on wisdom of saving old engine. I own a 1970 formula 400 ra3 1 of 293 and if I had the yz block but not correct to my car and it's mine . I don't think I'd sell it because what if new engine breaks or I decide to go back to the yz engine? The ram air 3 and for blocks are hard to find. Gto guys rape trans ams and Firebirds for engines. So it's smart of him to keep it. And if you don't like my opinion I don't care. This is some of our hobbies but some of you,it's your job! Why bring up his Block ?is it for sale? No ,you guys are begging for it! Grow the f up. Go flip a pinto. He is group member and make him feel welcome!

I have a question, you said you got the small-bore IA block. Why did you not get the bigger one? I don't know all of the differences between the IA blocks but I would love to have over 500 cubes. I am sure you have a reason. I am just trying to learn more about the IA blocks. I wish my wife would let me afford one, LOL. That is going to be a fantastic ride when you are finished. I can't wait to see the finished project.

Me too!

There are two reasons. First, I already had a set of 4.185 pistons. Second, I should already easily be over 500 hp and 550+ tq. On street tires I don't know that it would make sense to go higher. Same reason I didn't port the heads an use 1.65 rockers.

Anyway, I hope it's a decent motor. Who knows, maybe I put together a horrible package and it will suck.

Keep us posted!

Since I don’t think it’s a big secret that the car being discussed is mine I’ll finally give my 2 cents. A little back ground. The car is a Lucerne Blue ram air formula with deluxe interior 15 inch wheels and m-21/3.73 combo. 1 of 189 and possibly the most heavily optioned formula built in 1970 period. This car was LITERALLY given to me by another member on this forum as a gift for all the help I’ve given him over the years as we became good friends. The block is literally the only part missing at this point even original sandlewood interior has been reconditioned etc. Enough about that, Trying to remain neutral as humanly possible albiet virtually impossible being the cars owner, I have kept my mouth closed long enough. I spoke to John for over a half hour the day I realized his block was “my” block. My buddy his employee and my son were all in the truck at that time. He GENUINELY seems like a VERY nice guy. That being said, a deal was struck. I told him his price for the block was actually 2 cheap as it was BELOW what market value for a WS block is. To his credit, as he’s stated MULTIPLE times it isn’t about the money even after myself telling him he should ask for more. Since this has turned into a father son project my son and hell even my wife were excited at the fact the original motor was gonna be reunited. (She wants to document the restoration in a 70 only formula web/blog page and document the 70 only stuff for future restorations). Flash forward to 4 days later when I receive a text stating John changed his mind. I honestly respect that and even told him I totally understand wanting to have a correct WS block in the wings incase he decided to sell the car. I even went so far as to offer him ANOTHER WS block. To clean it magnaflux it and ship it to his machine shop and pay their fee to double check as well as paying his proposed cash price BEFORE he even pulled the other one. (Zero risk transaction on his end there). I feel this was both a good faith act and protected him from any misgivings. Sadly that block has moved to Australia and that owner (whom is also a member here and monitoring this thread as well) is very happy with it. I mention all that because to ME reading these post over the past few months I get the nagging itch that SOMEONE is running around behind the scenes speaking ill of me. I say this because up til now I’ve had ZERO interaction with John. My first experience was pleasant and good and my buddy (also a member here albiet new) can confirm that he felt he was a nice guy and stand up as well. So I ask myself what I’m 4 days could possibly go and derail a proposed transaction presented by not myself but the other party? All that comes to mind is SOMEONE is saying I’ve done them wrong etc. it was mentioned that “I'd have to say some things about other members that I don't want to have to say”. Well if it’s about me, you have MY permission to speak your mind. I’m a grown ass man and can accept your opinion and decisions even if I disagree with them (as is the case with this block and why I’ve kept my mouth shut so far). If others are asking to not be mentioned , maybe the question that needs to be asked is, WHY they don’t want to be named? Also no names be them real or screen need to even be given protecting the innocent or not so innocent. Me personally? I’d never take only one side of the story into consideration. The truth typically tends to lay in the middle of both sides. With the exception of a few. It’s been stated it’s NOT about the numbers etc. well this is being posted on a public forum that’s literally dedicated to the RESTORATION of these specific cars. A place where guys have liters spent DECADES of their lives researching helping and building correct cars. I can understand totally and RESPECT wanting to update the motor and ABSOLUTELY the trans and rearend to modern specs for drive ability. The problem that the “TRIBE” here is having is numbers matching is a HUGE deal to this particular crowd. Pick a body style it’s the same idk if it’s a Bonneville or a Judge. The chance to reunite ANY car with their original drivetrain is huge, add to that the absolute rarity and desirability of this particular car and we are no longer talking about a car but literally a piece of Pontiac museum level machinery. This is the source of the members posting WTF here. To us it is ALL about the numbers or we’d all have EFI 18 inch wheels coil overs and 6 speeds. It’s so important actually that if I had a certain members motor ( I hesitate to even bring this person up because part of the deal when he tried to screw me was I WOULDN’T talk about publicly as long as he gave me my fan shroud back but I feel given the topics involved it’s necessary I won’t mention him by name but many here are not fans of his.) to their car, DESPITE him making a 75 year old man sleep in his truck overnight in a Walmart parking lot waiting for said shroud I’m the sub zero weather a few years ago. If I had his block to say his IV car. I’d still sell it to him DESPITE my dislike of the man. I feel most members here feel the same way despite their dislike of jim. The car doesn’t deserve to suffer that’s for damn sure (matter of fact I ended up selling him a carb through a third party that needed parts he had. He bought the carb and traded for the parts. I knew this in advance and still did the deal. That should tell you a bit about my own character). The guys posting on this particular thread with the exception of one whom shall remain nameless (I’d sell him his original block too if I had it and he needed it and I REALLY don’t like him) are all members of this forum and have been a long long time. Sure I know some if not MOST of em, I think pretty much ALL of em will tell you the same thing about me as a person. I LOVE THESE CARS. I’ve spent the last 15 years studying the 70 learning the one year only parts etc searching for every single little piece from the plastic windshield eyebrows to one year only hood hinges to the saving a one year only sandlewood dash pad some thought couldn’t be saved because of my enthusiasm for the Firebird. To me it’s ALL about the numbers and I’ve dedicated a HUGE majority of my life to researching etc and I still don’t know as much as say Norwood Keith Telly RAIIITA FormulaBruce 1971455HO (or whatever Steve’s screen name is) but despite it all I’ll continue on doing it cause even though this motor has turn into a real **** show it’s the cars I love and I’ve made a heck of a lot of friends along the way. A couple of em insisting I travel back east to shows like the trans am nationals Carlisle etc. (little trip this August is in the world boys. Bringing my son and buddy with me gonna be a hoot I hope.) Speaking of which. Everyone here seems to know it’s my car with the exception of maybe a couple and they are all incredulous as to why a deal can’t be made. One might stop and ask oneself why are so many chiming in on this? This was said “Makes me wonder who they are, and who their associates are, maybe posting under multiple names? Who knows.” Most those accounts have 100’s if not 1000’s of posts and been active for YEARS if not decades. Go look at ALL their posts over the years and I think you’ll get a good idea of their character and personality as well as contributions to our hobby. Hell Norwood reproduced many of the one year only parts for us at damn near cost just to help. Telly has forgot more about these cars then almost all of us know. Keith is a source of info unlike anything we will EVER see again and **** Ole pinion head is arguably the most knowledgeable guy alive when it comes to the Pontiac drive train Formula Duce is more knowledgeable then most of us and is always here helping other members and NONE of em have a problem taking the time to help anyone with their projects. So while I personally know a few, all those accounts are just legitimate enthusiasts taking time out of their lives to help other enthusiasts. Me personally? I don’t need to post under other accounts. If I got an issue I’ll tell the whole damn world I have NO filter. Ask my wife she will HAPPILY confirm that. Just ask guys like Telly and Norwood. I’ll get into it with anyone and not lose a wink of sleep. Do it on the forum pages of Facebook ALL the time. Pretty sure there is a thread recently where I did it here with an idiot. I’ve kept quiet out of respect for John’s decision to not sell. I said on his other thread it’s his motor and no one can force him to do so and I stand by that. One doesn’t have to give a drowning victim CPR either. Until recently I accepted that he just didn’t want to be without a WS block incase he sold his car later. A decision I totally respect and even told him so and I stand by it. However based on posts in this thread I’m pretty sure that isn’t the real case. It’s basically been alluded to. To that my response is multi part. First. I respect it, I don’t like it and I think it’s wrong but I respect it. However if that isn’t the truth then I don’t respect it. Second, There are two sides to every story. If this is true. I can tell EVERYONE whatever the story, my side hasn’t been heard. I got no problem telling it though so please don’t hide what it is. I don’t mind facing this stuff head on. Lastly, John and I have never had any other interaction, if you’ve been in ANY business long enough you’ll learn statistically you’re gonna have unhappy individuals. Given the amount of money spent on the car and the new drivetrain I suspect John has been very successful in business. That doesn’t mean you stop doing new business with people. Just my opinion. Back to punishing the car to punish the person. Bad Karma in my world.
In conclusion my intent was not to call John out. Sorry John I genuinely think your a nice guy, maybe this will take some of the heat off you maybe not I don’t know. I will absolutely understand if this post upsets you and or offends you but it’s both factually based and how I personally feel. Quite honestly the whole situation has caused me much anguish and sleepless nights and honestly given me a bad taste for these cars I love so much (been at this since I was 15 im 44 now). I’ve come real close to sticking a LS motor in it honestly, and with the arrival of my new CTS-V supercharger today still potentially possible. I don’t believe this to be John’s fault, I honestly think he’s been fed bad info from other sources who are scared to say something publicly for good reason. If that’s the case shame on them for interfering with the reunification of what could quite possibly be a 1 of 1 car. Personally I know I wouldn’t take this to protect people who weren’t family members. Hell I wouldn’t do it for most my damn family. (Think I’m kidding on that try me 🙄). I’d want to get to the bottom of it myself. I’m sorry if this offends John or anyone else and I thank everyone who reads to this point. I’m not mad at ya John. You don’t know me and I understand. It’s a bummer you didn’t get to though. I think you’d find me a good guy. That being said if you do change your mind and decide to sell it PLEASE let me know. I just wanna finish what I started at this point. Wouldn’t hold anything against ya, hell your only 7 hours away. I’d drive up pick it up and take you out to dinner and buy you a drink. That being said. I’ll publicly make the offer to you to buy the block for 5k, or arraigned for another WS block to be checked and shipped to you from another member on this forum IN addition to paying the cash price you came up with. Once again zero risk gives you another WS block for later and does the good deed of placing the block with the VIN number stamped into it BACK in the car it was installed into April 1970 I don’t wish you any ill will and I truly wish you good luck on your Trans Am. Personally I think it’s gonna be a awesome ride glad you decided to go with the TKX like we discussed I think you’ll be VERY happy with it. I know I am with mine. On that note, thanks to you guys supporting my quest to try and restore this baby back to its greatness. If something comes about, expect a post dedicated to this car with a crap ton of documentation.

Just get a service block man and sell your car and move to Hawaii so you retain all your value of yours car. Your thinning your heard so who care. It's his block and he likes it, I did look up your history Eric and you way rude to other members, you even told a guy you scrapped exhuast manifolds he needed instead of selling to him. You have a bachelor degree in business and they taught you to be that way my guess but this topic isn't about your ethics. I co graduate him.on his wisdom. You lost your engine long ago just put another one in it and drive sell it what ever. I never seen his for sale anyway. Like you told the Australia men im.stupid and dumb. F off man

Eric I tried being your friend you did tell me some parts that I needed I thank you for that but in your eyes I was just your customer. You lied to me about my factory Ram Air 3 manifolds once installed the date cannot be seen because you needed them for yours that was upsetting I knew you needed a set of ram air 3 exhaust manifolds and I bought an extra set while on vacation in Mexico you view people differently than other members on the group I tried to be your friend but no more on the other token this post isn't about your block and if your obsession and greed to make more money. Take this as a life lesson on how to treat people if you are straight-up honest guy you wouldn't have Karma bite you in the ass like this and if you lost half the value because you don't have the correct block oh well

For the last time, my motor is not for sale.

I am not going to debate about the whys and wherefores. But I have my reasons and I am comfortable with that.

Being a new member (2/17/21) with 0 posts, I realize my opinion carries little weight. That being said I purchased my first Firebird ('69 FB 400 car) 34 years ago when I was 15, along with a few others I have accumulated of the years. I still have that '69 Firebird and it is currently undergoing a multi-year transformation into a Pro-Touring vehicle, and no not an LS-Swap, it will have a Kauffman built powerplant. I bring up this car because I have kept the original #'s match engine, even though there is a 0% chance it will ever be put back in by me. In the off chance that I were to sell the vehicle, it would still have the original "born with" motor in spite of all the powertrain and DSE modifications the car is going through I did not want to separate them.

About 25+ years ago I went to look at a spare '69 FB 400 motor to buy "just in case". When talking with the guy I asked him if he knew where the car was that motor came out of and he said it was in his back yard. He showed it me and low and behold it was the #'s match motor for the car. I barely had enough money to buy the motor at the time, but I felt very strongly that that the 2 should not be separated and I asked if we would consider selling the motor/car together and if he would give me a couple weeks to to earn enough tip money from valet parking cars to buy it. Luckily he did give me that chance so I kept the born with engine and car together. I still have it BTW if anyone is interested :)

I am in no way trying to interject myself into any differences members may have with one another, but only want to convey my hopes that the #'s correct motor finds it way back home at some point. It would be a shame for the entire Firebird and Pontiac Community as a whole to not be able to preserve such a unique piece of automotive history in as original state as possible.

Jhein - Welcome, I am excited to see where your build takes you and to see your motor/finished TA. I know my build has taken many twists and turns and continues to do so at to this day. Maybe we can swap some joys and pains of marrying the old/new in these awesome cars!

Ramairnacho - As a fellow '70 Formula RAIII owner (4-Spd/#'s Match), we both know how hard it is to find the correct numbered parts for our cars, I just didn't know what I was getting into with all of the 1-year only '70 stuff. To many of us #'s do matter. I could not tell from your posts if you had the #'s matching motor for your Formula, but if not I hope you are able to find it because I see all the lengths you are going through to find all the correct and numbered parts for your car, because it is a rare 'Bird too! In full disclosure, like you I have also purchased parts from Eric, but I did not have any of the issues you have communicated.

Eric - I do hope you and Jhein are able to find a mutually beneficial solution and re-unite the #'s match motor with your Formula. I appreciate you selling me a few of the correct 1-year only parts for my '70's as well as freely sharing much of your knowledge about these cars. Good luck.

There are countless others that deserve thanks in my continuing education about these vehicles as well as helping me find the correct parts over the years. Thank You.

This is interesting I been a member for almostb1 year and now a senior member and formula-ie is just a junior member. I remember being a junior member but as time went I became a senior member, Interesting and there should not be any shame in anything. My car is number matching for most part. John shouldn't be pressured or shamed for his decision and if since 21 why are you still a junior member? I want to see this bad ass butler block burn rubber!

My guess would be that member status is based off of post count and since I do not post that is why I am still a Junior Member. I hope my post did not come off as pressuring anyone, that would be the furthest from my intent. I was merely expressing optimism that something could be worked out.

Everyone who’s saved one of theses cars knows that you don’t do this to get rich and famous, it’s a passion mixed with blood, sweat and tears….and lots and lots of $$$. You also rely on a community of fellow enthusiasts who share your passion and are happy to help.

Therefore, unlike Eric, I don’t respect the owners decision not to reunite the engine with the car…….its petty and the equivalent of the morons who let their car rust into nothing in the field because “they’re going to restore it one day”.

Either your someone who has a passion for these cars and wants to preserve them for the future, and that includes helping others restore theirs (because really, we are only their temporary custodians) or your a 2 year old throwing your toys out of the crib crying “it’s mine, and no one can have it”. No one is arguing it’s not yours, grow up and do the right thing.

……and Ramairnacho…..reading your post, there’s nothing I can say that you don’t say for me, keep going champ, always entertaining.

…and for the record, I have been restoring classic muscle cars for 30 years and have come across a lot of different people, some good and some not so good. Eric is up there with the best, without his knowledge and help sourcing parts I wouldn’t be able to restore my 1970 Ram Air Formula.

So when is a numbers matching car better than not? Is it when you drive it? Is it when look at it and admire it? When I'm driving my car, running through the gears and winding through the twisties, I couldn't care less what number is on my motor. I drive it and it makes me feel great. It's when you sell it that it matters (OK, maybe if you want a ribbon at a show). But really it's when you sell it.

So when this guy Eric first approached me (after he was part of the group that pressured me to post my block VIN) he lied to me and told me the car was owned by another member It took a couple days before he eventually claimed he actually owned the car. He told me he owned it for 5 years. Then later he said 10. Then later again he said 15 years. From the pictures he sent me, the car needs a complete restoration. He claims he has all the parts to do that. But yet after 5, 10 or maybe 15 years, he hasn't. BTW, he also claims to have at least two 70 WS blocks and #12 heads. So what's stopping him? He could have had that car running and driving a long time ago. But is that what he wants? I don't think so.

I think he wants a numbers matching motor for the sole purpose of selling the car for more money. People have asked that question about my motives but I think the opposite is true.

Eric is apparently a used parts dealer. That's what he does. I don't know if it's his primary gig or a side gig, but it's a business for him. Most of these people posting here are his associates or customers. Most of them only post about parts for sale but not about their cars, or they don't post at all but crawled out from under a rock for this.

As far as I'm concerned, I may as well sell my motor to a used classic car dealer like Coyote Classics or Maple Motors so they can flip it for more money. I'm not interested in that. If I could reunite my motor with a car owned by a true hobbyist I would do it in a heartbeat. I don't think that's what's happening here.

So this person has lied to me repeatedly and I don't think his motives are pure. He doesn't care about the car. It's about the money.

Idk either of these guys from
Anyone . But let’s not start attacking each other over this .

The OP isn’t obligated to sell and it is correct for his car as well.

The owner of the matching numbers car has a right to want to TRY and get the block as well.

I like seeing original engines back in their cars BUT it’s still up to him. Attacking him isn’t going to help the situation. That’s for damn sure .

He’s not keeping it for a transplant into a Chevelle he’s got a 70RAIII car himself and he’s happy w the engine enough that he wants to keep it for his car. (Obviously more than he wants the money)
.
I see BOTH these guys positions and “ feel “ for both of them.

Something went awry here and attacking him (The OP)
Isn’t gonna help it get better . ( I think Dale Carnegie wrote a book about this didn't he??? )

Let’s all try not to ruin the experience of owning these Pontiacs for these guys. I’m sure this will work itself out OVER TIME without attacks on either of them.

Amen, brother. You said it right.

Let me start by saying. Still not mad at ya. My personal opinion is poor communication coupled with the little cricket in your ear who is still pissed I refused to sell him the air cleaner off of said car. MAYBE I can clear up publicly some misinformation you’ve either received or incorrectly deduced.

So when is a numbers matching car better than not? Is it when you drive it? Is it when look at it and admire it? When I'm driving my car, running through the gears and winding through the twisties, I couldn't care less what number is on my motor. I drive it and it makes me feel great. It's when you sell it that it matters (OK, maybe if you want a ribbon at a show). But really it's when you sell it.

I think honestly you’re missing the point it the aspect of this hobby. It’s the challenge. Your opinions are both valid and quite frankly correct. The caveat to that simply is you can do it with your cars original motor. Personally I drive the piss out of the cars I own. Does it ad value? Of course it does. I even told you that in our conversation when I told you your cash price was to cheap. Numbers matching is ALWAYS better. It’s the challenge that most of us take on. At least for myself it is).

So when this guy Eric first approached me (after he was part of the group that pressured me to post my block VIN) he lied to me and told me the car was owned by another member It took a couple days before he eventually claimed he actually owned the car. He told me he owned it for 5 years. Then later he said 10. Then later again he said 15 years. From the pictures he sent me, the car needs a complete restoration. He claims he has all the parts to do that. But yet after 5, 10 or maybe 15 years, he hasn't. BTW, he also claims to have at least two 70 WS blocks and #12 heads. So what's stopping him? He could have had that car running and driving a long time ago. But is that what he wants? I don't think so.

I’m sorry if you felt “pressured.” Certainly wasn’t my motive. Not others I think. Honestly as I also told you in our conversation I’d have never guessed in a million years that block was the one from my car. I simply like seeing the original blocks reunited with their cars. (More on this in a minute). So one of my sins apparently is in not remembering when the car was given to me. I know I didn’t tell you 5 years. 10 and 15 are very highly probably. I do believe that approximately 5-8 years ago it was finally delivered to me. Primarily because at the time shipping a car cost around 500-1000 bucks and anyone I contacted wanted 2500 plus to go get it because of its location in Wyoming (almost in Canada). Maybe that is where the confusion came? Not sure. I talk 10 miles a minute and even
FASTER when I’m excited which when we were talking I can assure you I was. One member here has notoriously said they like talking to me in person cause they can see when I’m gonna take a breath so he can get a word in edgewise.
As to the WS blocks. At the time I did have 1 and access to another. I offered you the block as I thought you wanted to have an additional one on hand for when the time came to sell yours. Something I still respect and honestly support although with that bad ass motor you are building I don’t think it’s gonna make a difference. Who ever gets it next probably won’t modify it as you’re building it to drive and enjoy. That Block I sold to another member that weekend to generate funds for mine. That member after you decided not to sell it actually said offer it back and make it happen we will worry about mine or the money later. He can chime in if he chooses. I still have access to another WS block. I’d gladly make the arraignments that I said I would before and have it cleaned magged and shipped to your machine shop and cover their costs to verify it’s a good block. Like I said. I understand the desire to have one on hand. The heads I do have. Sitting in bags ready to go. Waiting on the block. The reason I didn’t just stuff a block into the car to drive it is I don’t like to half ass stuff. More on that in a second as well.

I think he wants a numbers matching motor for the sole purpose of selling the car for more money. People have asked that question about my motives but I think the opposite is true.

The reason I want the numbers matching block is because it is the last piece of a very complicated and intricate puzzle I’ve been trying to piece together for a crap ton of years. This car is what brought me into the second gen F-Body’s. Before that I was 67-69 only. My first car was a 68. Still have it. My second was a 69 Trans Am. Still have that and it’s currently being restored although I have since GIVEN it to my son for his 16th birthday. He was literally raised in that car and has many great memories of Hot August Nights and cruising and racing with dad. That car is what brought me to PY and to meeting MOST the guys who have posted on this forum. As far as selling the formula? I literally told you and also texted you that yes SOMEDAY I will sell it. First however my wife had plans to document the restoration as well as the over 100 unique 70 only parts for the future generation to have access to. One of the few reasons the car isn’t done is MOST of the one year only parts were missing. It has taken me this long to learn about them and to amass them. We want to document them and their differences and consolidate that into one place for anyone else attempting a restoration. Sorry if that isn’t what an enthusiast does. Almost EVERYONE here knows this to be the truth.

Eric is apparently a used parts dealer. That's what he does. I don't know if it's his primary gig or a side gig, but it's a business for him. Most of these people posting here are his associates or customers. Most of them only post about parts for sale but not about their cars, or they don't post at all but crawled out from under a rock for this.

Eric’s family owns 40 acres of wine grapes and a winery. I literally told you this. My brother owns an automobile repair shop. Now have I sold parts? You betcha. In my quest to find correct parts, I’ve had to buy whole cars and even whole collections to get these parts. Case in point I had to buy 3 sets of the Uber rare JW wheels at over 10k to get the ones I needed for my car. This stuff doesn’t grow on trees. One of the reason the car isn’t done. I have NEVER lied about moving parts to HELP cover the costs of my restoration. Personally I really do LOVE the chase for these parts and cars. It’s a treasure hunt. Not sure how that makes me guilty of anything, but I totally understand how it might jade your decision to sell me the block. I can honestly and SINCERELY tell you this isn’t about making more money, it’s about the accomplishment of restoring one of the rarest formulas out there to its full glory. And if you think I won’t drive it stay tuned of a video of me blowing the tires off of one of the 885 ,1971 4 speed Trans Am cars which is also numbers matching. I did that Sunday. I buy and build em to play with em not sit in a warehouse.

Another bit of misinformation I think you have been given is “Most of these people posting here are his associates or customers”. Associates you can maybe say. One is a damn good friend and gave me the car. The others are just fellow enthusiasts. Check their profile you will see MOST have been on this form since 05-08, with a couple being founding members. 2 have bought parts from me certainly. See above. When you have to buy whole cars to get little things like windshield eyebrows or the CORRECT dash pad and carpet, you’re gonna have some extra crap yo get rid of. What you don’t know is the VAST majority of these guys I HAVE BOUGHT PARTS FROM! Norwood has provided me with MANY 70 parts he manufactures got stuff from ole pinion head and formula Bruce and tellyshevelli and even Keith. So I suppose that makes them mu associates. Bottom line is it’s not a business for me. My parts sales over the years wouldn’t average out to enough to cover my car payment for my Tacoma a month, but yes, I have sold parts.

As far as I'm concerned, I may as well sell my motor to a used classic car dealer like Coyote Classics or Maple Motors so they can flip it for more money. I'm not interested in that. If I could reunite my motor with a car owned by a true hobbyist I would do it in a heartbeat. I don't think that's what's happening here.

I think if you privately asked a few members of they thought I was a “true” enthusiast almost all of em would agree I might possibly be one of the most enthusiastic collectors out there. I spend hours and hours and months and years reading studying comparing etc these cars and parts. Hell when we went to Hawaii for a special occasion I was reading posts on the beach. There is no aspect of my life firebirds don’t permeate. My kids knew the differences in body styles before they were 5. My son and daughter were brought home in birds (her in a 85 trans am. Don’t lynch me please) my toolbox is the snap on anniversary box. I can quote production figured stats part numbers you name it. Sadly after talking with you, if you didn’t get how enthusiastic I was then that part really does upset me. It get calls texts and emails daily at all hours and man I love to jump on and talk these cars with guys. The Australians FaceTime me just to ask questions because I am one of the few who will do that. I’d rather drive a Firebird then any other car including exotics etc that’s a damn fact. I own at least 5 or 6 at this point. The 71 being the latest. Dragged it out of a field in 2020 and spent 2 years making it mechanically sound enough to be a daily driver. It finally is and will be for awhile. Been approached no fewer the. 10 times about selling it for probably over 6-8 times what I paid for it. Like you John it isn’t about the money. Wine sales are always good. I just love the car, so do my kids and even my wife enjoys them or at least the enthusiasm it gives me. She said all that knowledge you have in your head needs to be put down for others to have access to later on. Hence the webpage/blog. I won’t say I feel insulted by you saying you don’t believe I am an enthusiast, but it hurts me and saddens me. Anyone here can ask me questions at any time and I’ll answer. It’s all about the cars.

So this person has lied to me repeatedly and I don't think his motives are pure. He doesn't care about the car. It's about the money

I don’t know I would use the word lied. Yes I didn’t post on your previous thread it was my car. I did that for a couple reasons which I personally feel are valid. You may not and I understand if you don’t. 1st is quite honestly I wanted to feel you out. No offense I didn’t know you. 2nd I didn’t want others bugging me or yourself. I didn’t want to deal with guys asking me if I wanted to sell the car etc. lastly, as my wife can confirm. It was going to be a “surprise” post for the page. It would have made excellent content and helped drive people to the page of the post was long lost original motor reunited with rare formula, or something to the like. I certainly didn’t want to jinx it by announcing to the world. Their was no subterfuge intended. When we spoke the first words out of my mouth were that’s “MY” block.

In closing, please don’t take this as an attack on you man. Honestly. I know some stuff others here don’t. Like where you’re getting some of your info from etc. All I can say is consider the source. He’s jade for MANY reasons. Not the least of which is I refuse to sell him the air cleaner of said car despite him asking almost every day for months. I finally had enough and told him if he wanted the air cleaner THAT bad I’d selling him the car for 35k (an outrageous price at the time on purpose) JUST to shut his ass up (didn’t work sadly). I understand sincerely that the confusion you have listed coupled with the behind the scenes info you have gotten has given you a STRONG distaste for myself. It’s sad honestly. We spoke about your car at length. We spoke about the TKX at length. I love what you’re doing and think it’ll be a kick ass car. I’d never advise it to a numbers matching car but what you’re doing to a non numbers matching car is fine and nothing that can’t be reversed easy enough. No hard feelings from my end John. Honestly. I’m sad that’s true maybe even a little heartbroken, but you don’t deserve me being mad at you. At least the block still survives. Maybe someday it’ll find its way back into a spectacularly ordered street sleeper formula. I as well as a few other members clearly hope so. It’s about preserving the history of the Pontiac. Not many exist and even fewer of this particular combo exist with their original drivetrain (including transmission). I certainly don’t want to get into the financials but I can honestly say you could gift me that block and I’ll still never recoup what I’ve spent trying to piece this puzzle back together. What I can’t buy however is the friendship and comradely I’ve gotten in my quest. Maybe someday you’ll see things different and we too will be friends. No bad JUJU curses over here man. I hope that motor turns out even better then you plan and I know already that the TKX was a FANTASTIC idea and will certainly make the car more enjoyable to drive. M-22 and 3.42’s certainly are a challenge. Please take some time maybe talk to some of the older members about things and reconsider. I won’t hold a grudge. Not enough time in life to stay mad over stupid stuff. Good luck with the Trans Am

If it was my block and I was offered a fair price and a replacement block.... by all means I'd do it... if I was pulling the engine anyways. The original block belongs with the car it originally came in... plain and simple. Who cares if it adds value to the current owners car... It isn't about the money.. right???? Fact of the matter is... once that block is reunited with that car.. they will never be separated again.

If the person in possession of the block was a true enthusiast and genuinely cared about these cars he would cut loose of the block. It sounds like the buyer has been more than fair in his offering for the block.... deceptive??... maybe .. maybe not.. Regardless.. the block belongs with the car.. The person in possession is pulling the engine anyways... no skin off his teeth in that aspect.

What happened to, “Folks, I promise that if I don't use the block, and somebody here has the car it came from, I'll make every reasonable effort to reunite them. That would make me happy, but let's not put the cart before the horse.”
~jhein

It’s my hope this will get hashed out in time. I can honestly say that I’ve had good intersections with both parties involved (albeit brief with Jhein) and I’m hoping that a deal can be done where both parties walk away feeling satisfied. Hopefully this original engine will be reunited with the car.

Fat birds ericbi didn't bugg you everyday for your air cleaner. It has broken studs and missing parts. More fricken lies. Yes the Australian men like you that's cool I'm sure you help then get all the parts they need and not cheap you profit quite well from my knowledge of what you said is that they have money. Im.not afraid to voice my opinion on how you treat other people. You loo at your car as treasure like you said. You lied to me about my original manifolds telling me to trade them to you along with 1500 for a starter because you need them for this car and to use other ones I bought with incorrect dates. I'll never forget your arrogant actions. Since I have nothing really to give to these Facebook or py friends or network buddies you like so much they don't like me no more and I'm ok. I don't need your parts man. I tried to be your friend but you said im.your customer. I'm not a cricket man. I m not afraid of any man. Wimps don't drive these types of cars. I hope John enjoys his engine and stores it well. Originally he just wanted advice on his block ,like I did with my date codes and showed you my manifolds but it's in your nature to try to get it all. I need nothing from you. I know have an extra early set that are 3 hole and where for you but I'd rather keep them now. I'm not buying friendship it's not worth it to me. I had my car all my life since I was 6 it was my dad's car. I.worked hard for it bought it at 8 and still own it. Yes im.proud of it and will never sell it. I been rich I been poor but alway saved it, to me it priceless to.you it's treasure big difference. Im.also thinking to restore a car and document everything you might get top $ right. Im.not stupid I know the value of our cars since I joined I like acting dumb to test a man's honesty and intentions. Payback is a bitch man but fastbirds don't loose sleep over your treasure,.

Ignacio, I wasn’t going to respond to you. I have determined you unworthy of my energy. Here are 5 separate instances where you asked me to sell you my air cleaner. One IRONICALLY you suggest I sell you mine and use a 71 on mine. I got plenty more if anyone wishes to see em but pretty sure 5 will do, and that’s just from Facebook. Dozens more in my text message archive. To publicly clear something up when I offered to buy your manifolds at the time I was unaware they were your originals. After you pointed that out I jokingly said use the later one and sell me yours. This is fact I’ll own it publicly. It was mostly joke however I will also say publicly had you agreed I’d have taken em. For that I sincerely apologize. For the record of the tin shields are installed you can’t see the dates. That doesn’t make my joke/actions right just a point of fact. Now I will say publicly. It isn’t “my friends” it’s the community. They don’t like you. This whole thread is mainly because you’re a cricket and run your mouth. You’ve basically ruined John’s Pontiac experience because you GOT INVOLVED WITH SOMETHING YOU HAD NO REASON TO BE INVOLVED WITH. You’ve just pissed me off even more. I don’t blame John ONE BIT. It’s you who’s the root of the evil here you just gave him bad info like you have MULTIPLE other people hear and on Facebook. There is a reason you’ve been kicked from pages chats and forums. It isn’t me bud. It isn’t me. There are reasons less and less people post on your threads too. Stop take a long look in the mirror dude. Don’t bother denying it either. I’ve seen PLENTY of screenshots of texts messages posts etc where you bad mouth MULTIPLE people from myself as well as others both here and on Facebook. You have to ask yourself why WHOLE communities dislike you. I’m not scared either. Others here just hope you’ll eventually get a clue and go away. Me I’ll say it. GO AWAY.

John. I know already your upset. Please except my sincere apology. You should have never been dragged into a mess like this. It was never my intent to deceive you and it most certainly isn’t my intent to pair that block with this car for more money. This community holds numbers matching in the highest regard as I’m sure you’re seeing so most will never understand why anyone wouldn’t want to see the reunited. I just wanted to publicly apologize for dragging you and your car as well as mine through the mud. I’m sorry.

Ignacio don’t bother even replying. I won’t respond again anyways and all it’ll do is further prove the points I am making. Take a hint. Just walk away

Lies
 

yep I was looking for air cleaner no. dought about that but I still am I like ram air air cleaners I own 3 I think,misplaced original at friends house. So whats your point? I'm not lying you tried selling me that car for 12-15k when I asked you for a hood and i.almost bought it! But then you said you where going to get it running and get 35k before you moved to Hawaii. I don't care anymore you fricken lie man. I was your customer but you treated me like ****. Get block.dont get it I don't care but you didn't run me off . I was looking for a fricken hood for my 1970. Get it running get your 35k it's your plan man.

Okay we’re done here.

This sure got ugly.

:ranger: