Power Steering squeal and bleeding
 

I am at my wits end with my power steering pump. I am on pump #3 and still having issues. I have followed CVF Racings instructions to the letter on installation and bleeding. I have turned the wheel left and right, lock to lock over 300 times. I have drawn a vacuum as high as 28 inches, and turned the wheel lock to lock more times than I can count, both with the engine off and with it running.
The pump is now quiet and smooth at idle and running up to about 2300 rpm, then it starts squealing very loud. My top speed is about 42mph before it gets loud.
It will hold a vacuum all day, yet I still can’t get all the air out.

What am I doing wrong?

Odd. I just installed a new PS pump, hoses, and steering box in my brother's GTO the other week. All we did after install was turn the wheels left & right a dozen or so times with the engine off until no more air bubbles came up, then started the engine and topped things off and it was all good from there. No funny noises, no aeration of the PS fluid, nothing.

Did you have the exact same problem with your previous two PS pumps?

Post some pics of your setup.

It will hold a vacuum all day, yet I still can’t get all the air out. Not sure how a power steering pump holds vacuum. What am I missing?

Is the belt doing the squealing? If so, the belt may be too narrow and riding on the bottom of the pulley groove instead of the sides of the groove. Something to check if you haven't done so.

George

x2 on the belt. squealing is usually a belt/pulley issue. if its quiet & works good at idle or up to 2300rpms, chances are its the belt squealing at higher rpms.

another thing to confirm is the fan clutch, i bought a car recently long distance that ran great at idle & low rpm & showed no signs of a problem... when i got onto the highway it would squeal like a pig at about 2200rpm or 55mph, i checked & readjusted the belts & even bought some belt dressing stuff, nothing would stop the squeal above 55mph. made for a very long trip home at 50-53mph. got home did some more checking & swapped on a used fan i had... squeal was completely gone, the clutch was bad & made a loud squealing noise above a certain rpm but otherwise felt just like any other used clutch fan. that sounded exactly like a belt squealing.

have you verified it is the right belt & everything is lined up straight? what pump are you using? i used a reman cardone from rock auto & it was a quick & easy install/bleed, works great to 5500+ rpms with no squealing.

I don’t follow what the OP means about holding vacuum either!
If he he jacks up the front to get the wheels off the ground and then turns the wheels from lock to lock with somebody looking in the pump and no air bubbles are seen then his issue is clearly a slipping belt.

If your running a ribbed type belt they are the worst in terms of gripping.

One summer I worked part time to help a friend with his emergency back up generator company and the first thing we would do is replace any of those ribbed belts even if they had only 2 hours of exercise time on them!

spray it with belt dressing, might help diagnostically.

X 3 on the belt. Just had the same issue on my 37. Couldn't get the belt tight enough not to squeal under load. Belt was too narrow, riding too deep in the pulley. Changed to a wider belt, problem solved!

I am using a vacuum pump hooked to a rubber grommet that is pushed into the neck of the pump tank. I can pump it up to almost 28 inches of vacuum, which should help to pull the air out of the system.
I’ve done the vacuum pull with the engine running, when I get over 26 inches of vacuum the pump will start to squeal, signaling that it has air trapped somewhere. The vacuum will hold steady, so I know there is no other air leaks in the system.

I checked the belt and it is as tight as I can get it.

The fan clutch seems ok, but I will have to double check it’s operation.

I am at a loss

As for the pulley, I replaced the stock pulley with a deeper grooves pulley from CVF Racing.

Not to be harsh, but I don’t care what vacuum it can hold, the question is are you seeing any air bubbles?
If not then even though it’s a new pump that does not mean that it can’t be defective and have a high level of friction once a certain rpm level it got to, as in a level beyond what the belt or any single belt can deal with even!

it may not be a tightness issue on the belt, could be the wrong one for the pulley or its glazed over from previous slipping... or the pulley is out of alignment with the crank pulley. can you post a side pic showing the pulley alignment?

sounds frustrating but i dont think its a air issue, when doing the initial bleed you should be able to tell if there is air in the fluid by either seeing bubbles as you do the lock to lock of the wheel, or when starting the engine there will be frothing or aeration of the fluid. if you dont see any of that i doubt a vac pump will help anymore.

all i had to do on my new pump or resurrecting an old dry GM pump was to fill with fluid then turn the pulley backwards by hand or with a drill at lower speeds, i could see some air bubbles in the fluid, i cant say for sure where i heard to do that, might have been in the instructions with the new pump or a mechanic friend told me.

then i did the same in the operation direction for a bit. then turned the wheels lock to lock 6 or 7 cycles checking the fluid level like when bleeding brakes, dont let it get to low & suck in more air.

then did a couple cycles with the engine running, the first few times the pump made a bad noise & the wheel was a little jerky but that cleared up pretty quick. when shut off the fluid was very aerated, i let it sit overnight until it cleared up, topped off the fluid & started the next day & put the car on the ground & it has worked great since.

cant rule out a defective pump either, have heard of some remans being defective. my reman pump didnt come with the inlet fitting, had to swap one from my old pump, it was pretty gunked up too & i had to clean it out before installing. just some other things to consider.

Yes I am still seeing small bubbles.

I guess I need to jack it back up and turn the wheel from lock to lock a few more times.

I will take a stab at this but may need some additional info from you. When weird situations like this happen, you have to back up to the last time the steering system worked like it should. When was that? What pump was on it and what steering gear was on at the last time it worked correctly? I have never seen a PS pump give you the symptoms you describe that wasn't related to a pump/pulley/belt issue. But it's extremely unlikely you have had 3 defective pumps as well. So if you are sure the belt is staying tight and not slipping, we have to move on. I have also never heard of using any vacuum device to remove air from a steering system including a hydroboost. But lets move ahead. How does the steering wheel feel, engine running, weight on the tires and off the ground? Does it feel normal?, jittery, hard like no assist? Loose and hard when it is squealing? It is possible, but extremely rare that the torsion bar pin in the steering gear is loose or sheared off. This will allow the inner spool of the valve to route high pressure fluid to both sides of the power piston in the steering gear. You should have zero power assist. It should be extremely hard to turn. A pressure gauge might be a helpful tool for diagnosis. It would need to be plumed in the pressure side of the system between pump and gear. Normal pressure should be 60-100 PSI max straight ahead, idling. Through a slow turn of the wheel, weight of the tires on the ground, 300-500 PSI. As you approach the steering stops, 700-1000 PSI Against the stops, 1250+ PSI. The pressure should be very close on a left or right turn. Lets start here and reply when you can.

I forgot to ask if the pulley is a press on design or one with a key drive. Press on pulleys, especially aftermarket ones and rebuilt pumps may not have enough press under load to hold. If it's a press-on, mark the shaft and pulley with a paint marker or liquid paper. Run the engine up to squeal point and see if the marks move. Similar to checking a harmonic balancer for slip.

Pick up the Borgeson 899001 Power Steering Pump Pressure Valve Shim Kit. Pull the pressure valve out put it in the vise and remove all the shims.

I have only had this car for a few months, it has always made a pump noise, hence why I replaced the pump. I swapped to the CVF racing keyed pulley as a suggestion in another thread. I am running a Gates belt.
With the tires off the ground, turning the wheel from lock to lock o had done initial resistance with large bubbles coming out. I continued to turn the wheel from lock to lock over 200 times, still having bubbles coming out.
Fired up the car with the tires still off the ground, turning the wheel lock to lock. Got a little hesitation and shuddering thru the wheel, it went away with a few turns of the wheel and finally smoothed out.
Topped off the fluid and took it for a drive. It was smooth and quiet at all speeds until I got to about 40mpg and 2400rpm and it started squealing while driving straight.
I have checked the pulley alignment and it is correct.

Not sure what else to try.

By the way for what it’s worth I have never had air bubbles in my everyday car make for a slipping belt!

For example, my Subaru has a leaky rack and with the amount that I drive it for work during the week I need to add fluid twice a week when the pump starts to make noise.

When this happens, yes there is air seen in the reservoir, but once I fill it back up and turn the wheel lock to lock 3 times the light whine of the pump is gone and so are the air bubbles.

You seem to have two interacting problems taking place I would say.

Holly. What fluid you using in the pump.? It doesn’t take long for bubbles to go. There might always be a few bubbles. The belt is your problem. Which piullies you go with ? V belt. 6 or 8 rib ?

Great information. Thank you. So what I am hearing is the car steers fine now. Power assist is good, smooth and the only issue is the squealing noise at 40 MPH, 2400 RPM. This may sound crazy, but I think the noise is the clutch fan like another poster said. So lets eliminate it. Unbolt it and remove it. Put some bolts in the pulley to hold it and drive the car without the fan. Report back. Bad fan clutch can make all kinds of noise.

BTW, the reason I say it's not the PS pump is because driving straight, regardless of speed, the pump pressure will be very low. Going straight would be the LEAST LIKELY situation for pump noise. Hope you figure it out

I just replaced the fan clutch and my issue is exactly the same. I cleaned all the pulleys and replaced the belt for a 3rd time and still getting the metallic squeal at 2300 rpm or higher.

Nothing is leaking and I have triple checked all the fittings and connections. Could my steering box be allowing air in somehow?

I am at a loss on this one!

My story same issue in this order, soap on pulley, belt dressing, sent power steering pump out for rebuild and tried 3 different belts all cog. Bought a repro belt from Quanta Products, sold by our sponsor and problem solved. Yes, new fan clutch too. The repro one with holes not the cheesy one.

DO NOT contaminate the belt with "belt dressing".

Spray it with WATER for diagnostics. The water will kill the squeal of a slipping belt (temporarily) but not damage the belt or leave residue.

Air expands under vacuum. If you put 28 inches of vacuum on the system, and you don't suck out a bunch of fluid when the air bubble farther down expands...you don't have an air bubble in the system. There is no air.

And LOOK at how the belt fits the groove. Aside from incorrect-width belts, I've seen worn V-groove pulleys where the "V" has eroded to a "U". No belt will work on that pulley.

If this is a serpentine system, did the morons who designed it allow for sufficient belt-wrap on the PS pulley, water pump, alternator, etc? The "engineering" I see on aftermarket serpentine systems is terrible.

IF (big IF) it turns out that the fan/fan clutch has too much drag on the water pump pulley, and there's plenty of belt wrap, maybe the air fins of the radiator or A/C condenser are folded-over or filled with dragonflies or sparrows. Fan works too hard pulling air through the rad.

I am sorry to hear the fan clutch did not solve the problem. However, I would continue down the same path by continuing to eliminate the potential cause of the noise. My next "Test" would be to drive the car without the power steering pump turning. Rig up the belt drive in a way that eliminates the PS pump. A shorter belt, or even no belt would be fine. You didn't mention if the car has AC. Ideally, you want the water pump, alternator and AC if equipped turning. Drive the car and see if the noise goes away. If no squealing noise, at least you know for sure it's in the PS system. Then we can go from there. Testing is the only way to solve these kinds of problems. BTW, with a fully charged battery you can drive the car for testing 10 minutes or so without the water pump or alternator turning. Just keep an eye on the temp gauge.

if this noise shows up at 2300 RPM, you dont need to drive the car, just push the throttle by hand until it makes the noise at 2300rpm, then try & listen for where the noise is coming from to narrow it down. if you have a helper they can push the throttle while you listen around for the noise & even use a stethascope or long screw driver to put the end on each item like alt, p/s, water pump & hold the end to your ear, carefully.

as mentioned you can remove 1 belt at a time to see if the noise stops at 2300 rpm, or a short drive if the car needs to be moving for some reason to make the noise, but if its rpm specific you dont need to drive the car.

also just an FYI, you didnt need to buy a new fan/clutch, (if thats what you did) could have just removed the fan & bolted the pulley down tight, then hit the 2300rpm & see if the noise is gone or changes.

hops you can track it down!

TA - did you fix this?
I am also fighting the bubbles.
I also have a sequel at 2500 - going straight.
All new system. I went with their serpentine system.

Yes finally, it took 3 pumps to get one that would bleed properly and run quiet.

****. I think I have a leak in the pump somewhere. I will re order.
Thanks.

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Glad the OP got his issue fixed. Just to contribute another cause for anyone reading this thread, several years ago I chased a "chirping" belt on a Tahoe with a 5.3. Replaced several belts and idler pullies before I noticed the PS pulley (which I had never removed or worked on) was out on the shaft about 1/4", making it not line up with the water pump pulley. The belt was slipping forward as it rolled across the water pump pulley, causing the chirp. (My clue should have been the letters wearing off the back side of the belt in just a few weeks after installing it.)

I used a pulley installation tool to run the pulley all the way in on the shaft and the chirp went away for good.

Have you squrted the fan belt yet? I use water applied with a garden hose. If thats too messy , a squirt bottle will do. Squeal will go away instant ly and return as the belt driys out.

Dodge Trucks with the 318 and 360 were famous for belt chirping and the PS pulley not lining up properly. Usually took a Straight Edge to be sure the belt was straight. One tell tale sign was the worn area on the WP pulley would be wider than the belt.