Belt Squeal
 

My PS belt has just started squealing. It is adjusted to as tight as the others and as tight as I feel it should be. It just started doing it. Squeals at high RPM and upon cranking. It is a Gates belt so it is not cheap. Any suggestions to get it to quieten down?

They stretch some after use,re-tighten.Tom

I have never heard a belt make noise during cranking before the motor lights off unless it was very loose already!

You may have two issues, a starter screech at cranking and the belt making noise after that.

sometimes the clutch on the fan is to strong making it squeal when locked up

I’m gonna tighten it more some today and see how it does. I was going by the old belt flex recommendations but I don’t think that’s tight enougb

Ditto on the consideration of the clutch fan. Personal experience.

I am at the end of my adjustment and its still squealing. A .5 inch shorter belt wont fit. I guess its glazed cause it just started doing it. I wish I had not gotten the V belt setup

what pulleys do you have? check the pulleys for proper belt fitment into the groove. also, if they are OEM pulleys & painted, get the paint out of the grooves. if its glazed over from too much slipping its best to replace the belt but i have had luck using a little belt dressing, i have a tube of old stuff that you apply with your finger in a few spots on the belt then it spreads around the pulley.. not the newer spray on stuff that makes a mess.

Do you have the correct width belts? The parts stores now sell us the same width belt for the alt and ps. On my car ('76 GP) the PS belt should be slightly wider than the Alt belt, 7/16" vs 3/8" but the part store computer shows both should be 3/8 wide. If you look at the water pump pulley where both belts go, does one sit deeper in the pulley groove? If yes, it causes the one belt to try and spin faster and makes it squeal. The Gates Alt belt number should start with a 7 and the PS belt number should start with a 9. See this post:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=795159

Most parts stores only sell 15mm belts. As mentioned above look and see if the belts are at the same height on the WP pully. if one is riding higher or lower then the other the belts are rotating at different speeds.

I run a 15mm and 17mm belts and works great.

they are sitting even

If your asking me, Yes they are.

One other thing I just remembered was I had to get a new WP pulley. The WP pully had the same size groves where the crank pulley did not.

I’m beginning to think the squeal on startup was the starter. Ordered a ROBBMC

you "think" that or you know by further testing & confirming it? a starter squeal & a belt squeal should sound totally different.

there are many ways to verify if its belt related, i think some of them were mentioned here... spray a little water on the belt(s) then start the engine to see if the sound if still there. or simply remove one belt at a time then start the engine to see if it makes noise... wont hurt the engine to start with 1 missing belt or even no belt for a few seconds. or replace the belt if its glazed over & be sure its the right width.

should be able to tell pretty easy if its belts of not, better than throwing expensive parts at it.

Well I’m not throwing parts at it, the Summit Starter sounds like rocks in a coffee can now.

just a figure of speech.... you said you are "beginning to think" the squeal is from the starter, why?

how about the other questions asked? did you do any further testing to confirm if the squeal you described on this thread was from the belts? if the starter was bad then replacing it is needed, but belt squeal doesnt sound like rocks in a coffee can.

So this is the order of events. The power steering belt started squealing, I know that’s what it is cause it was squealing when turning and hard braking (hydroboost). I adjusted it as tight as possible and it went away when turning and stopping but then start screaming at high RPM. I think started hearing a brief screech when starting but dismissed it as the belt. I have a new belt I just have not put it on yet. Drove the car Friday taking it easy, no squeal when babying it and only that whine for a second at start up. Yesterday went to back it out and it sounded awful. Stopped in driveway and checked cause it sounded like one of the starter bolts had fallen out. Everything looked good so I decided to pull it back in. Started it and it sounded like gravel. I ordered the Robbmc because this I would be the 3rd time the starter has been rebuilt. I even changed the flywheel cause of this.

ok, i didnt see any of that info posted, just the recent post almost 2 weeks later saying you think its the starter.

strange the starter needed rebuilt 3 times, i have a summit starter in use for 7+ years on a 500+hp 10.75:1 467 that works great. last i heard summit starters are just re-boxed powermaster starters.

Even if your starter is defective, how do you explain the perceived belt squeal at higher RPM that you mentioned previously? Your starter shouldn't be engaged at all while driving the car, so it would seem there are two separate issues at play here.

Also, I'm somewhat curious to see if a new/different starter will actually fix your problem. Lots of people have good luck with the Summit starter, and for yours to have failed after being rebuilt twice, it makes be wonder if there is something else going on. Wrong flywheel maybe? It just seems too much of a coincidence for a starter to fail three times. Hopefully I'm wrong and your new RobbMC starter will solve the issue, but your situation is really odd.

changed the flywheel too

starter adjustment/shim issue?

whats the plan for the still squealing belt?

I know, I'm just wondering if whatever you replaced it with is correct. Normally I wouldn't doubt you, but the circumstances of repeated failures within such a small amount of time suggests to me some sort of parts incompatibility rather than a parts failure. Fingers crossed your new starter fixes it, though.

The first flywheel was wrong. I admit that. It was a flywheel that I put on after my builder tested the engine. I had just a regular Pioneer on there and with the power I was predicted to make I went with the Centerforce. Well its externally balanced so I replaced it LAST time this happened with a Ram billet flywheel. This is the longest the starter has lasted. I think possibly I was only getting engagement at the edge of the flywheel and as the teeth on the pinion wore they started making crappy contact. It would still start the car I suppose but it sounds horrible and I would rather not take the flywheel out again. As far as the belt squeal, I used belt dressing and it worked for about 5 minutes and it made a hell of a mess I am having trouble getting off. I am going to get a 1/2 inch shorter belt if I can get it on there.

Back to your belt squeek ... I had a set of Gates belts I bought on Rock Auto. The power steering belt squeeled like a pig no matter how much I tightened it. I bought another belt at O'Reilly's which was same identical length and it was silent with half the tension. I know you have all the bells and whistles belt system, but in my case I figured old car means old stock and depending on how it was stored it could be hard as a rock.

Bringing this thread back to life. They have started squealing after the AC compressor replacement and they will not stop. It’s ALL of them. 3 belts. I have tried different lengths, different tensions, you name it. I tried belt dressing and it worked for about 10 miles but mostly made a hell of a mess. Any suggestions?

I am thinking about sanding the pulley grooves. Bad idea?

There’s something odd with your set up!

Something has to be off minutely in the alignment between your water pump pulley and the pulley on the balancer that’s minimizing the engagement of your belts on one or both pulleys .

At this point I would be questioning if your water pump pulley flange was pressed on the correct distance, or if one or both bearings in the pump are going south once the pump warms up some.

Go buy a 3 ft length of 3/8” threaded rod.

Remove your belts and on either side of the motor set the rod into the pulleys so that it spans them with as much length of the rod as possible sticking up in the engine bay.

When you do this site along the rod is there any slight tilt to the front or the rear overall when you view it?

Make sure it’s set as deep into the pulleys as the rod will go.

Using this length of rod should magnify the issue if the alignment is off even if only a little .

May not hurt to pull the pulleys and bead blast the grooves. They can get polished and slippery.

Also you do not want any paint in the belt grooves on the pulleys, as that will transfer onto the belts and reduce there gripping power .

I've never seen where sanding pulleys ever works, or at least not for long.

List the part numbers of the pulleys.

List the part numbers for the belts you have, too.

If you lost 3 starters and replaced a flywheel, to me, first thing I would check is if the starter was shimmed right. How many shims do you have on the starter and what's you gear clearance?

These are 2 separate problems, not related to each other, keep that in mind.

Couple statements that may help:

*Once a belt starts slipping, it's toast. Only replacing them 'fixes' them.

*Pulleys do wear out, and like the belts, only thing that 'fixes' them is replacing them (full set).

*Never use any type of spray or sand/whatever on belts/pulleys.

*If you don't know what the clearance is or the spec that was used to shim the starter, then the starter wasn't shimmed properly.


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Get a belt tensioning tool, sometimes called a cricket. I can guarantee you that what you think is a properly tensioned belt isn't when checked with the tool! Ask me how I know.

They are CVF pulleys and I think the belts are glazed. I do know they are as longer than they need to be because the adjustment of the turnbuckles is at its max. I am gonna buy 1/2 inch shorter belts and see what happens.

I need to be clearer on this. I have used shorter before and they too eventually started screaming. I just think like NeighborsComplaint said, these belts are old technology and have probably been sitting a while. I’m going to quit buying gates and Dayco because I am having no luck with them.

Can you post some pictures showing alignment, brackets, and pulleys.?

I will as soon as possible. I have a very busy week this week.

Too busy to snap a couple of pictures after you asked for help?

On your starter issue, do you have 0.100” clearance or more from your ring gear to the starter pinion gear? I had a Powermaster starter that a shim was needed to move the pinion gear back away from the ring gear and was contacting the ring gear making a chattering squeal sound at certain RPM. Without the correct 0.100” clearance the pinion gear makes contact as things heat and grow.

Belts, what size alternator are you running? My factory AC car runs a 70amp alternator on single groove pulleys. A v-belt will tap out at a certain amperage and it might be worth considering dual groove pulleys, or a serpentine setup, after you verify you have the correct alignment, belts, and belt tension. I suppose you could load the alternator and see if the belt slipping got worse.

Alignment
Correct new belts
Correct new belt tension (set, run, and check again shortly after)

It’s strange because most of the time it is the power steering belt and you do not even run PS

True on the starter clearance of pinion to face of flywheel, but the critical clearance is the gear mesh.

You should KNOW what the clearance value is, and the thickness of shims it took to get there. Many sharpie the starter, flywheel, or bellhousing with that value so it's always readily availalbe.



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I had similar issues with my PS squealing. Someone on here (thanks) told me to get a 17mm belt and solved the problem. So part number starts 17-xxx where the x’s are the length (sorry if that’s obvious).

Bringing this one back. I’m at my wits end. Nothing changed in the time my car has been down for the trans repair but when I got in it to leave the shop today as soon as I pulled into the road I did some spirited driving and sure as hell it squeaked like a banshee at 3000. Is there any hope without a serpentine system?

List the part numbers of the belts.

List the part numbers of the pulleys.

Take a couple pics of either side of the pulleys on the engine.

We are flying blind trying to help because you are not providing enough info to diagnose.


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Make sure the belts are the correct width. Too narrow and thet ride at the bottom of the groove rather than the sides. They will certainly slip.

George

Krikit, not "cricket". Simple, easy, inexpensive. Requires a bit of "feel" at the finger-press point, so that the gauge does not rock towards the indicator lever. Has to stay firmly towards the pocket-clip end. But once you have the knack, it's supremely easy to work with.

Multiple sources for the same product. Sometimes with different-color molded plastic parts (Yellow, blue, black, "morning sickness green", perhaps others.)

Example: KR1 for V-belts
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/...AC_SL1500_.jpg

I got mine from NAPA about thirty years ago.
KR1 = V-belts <50 to 150 pounds tension.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBHKR1

KR2 = Serpentine/multi-rib belts. 100--300 pounds tension.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBHKR2
https://media.napaonline.com/is/imag...=webprooflarge

For the record, NAPA's pricing is insane. Amazon has 'em for about half of what NAPA wants.

Continental (Goodyear) has a third version, for belts that require 300--700 pounds of tension. Not something I deal with.
http://www.amazon.com/Continental-El...WPW/ref=sr_1_8

It's still gonna be difficult for us to verify pulley alignment. Pulleys need to be aligned in three dimensions.
Top--Bottom of the driven pulley
Left--Right of the driven pulley
Forward/Rearward compared to the drive (usually the crankshaft) pulley.

All measurements are in relation to the crankshaft pulley. The tolerance I use is 1/8 inch for nearly all automotive applications.

Yeah I wasn't too concerned about pulley alignment when requesting pics, was more so wanting an overall view to see if there were any glaring issues/concerns.

Like, we could get a bird's eye view of the belts, determine series, fan and accessory setup, etc.


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I will get some pics posted this week. I don’t see any glaring issues

If you have the belts' part numbers, that would be helpful too.

Do you really need the hydroboost?




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I’ll get the PS belt number when I get home today. Yes I need the hydroboost. Not enough vacuum for a booster and my wife won’t drive it with manual brakes

Fluid wouldn't happen to be low would it? That can excessively load the pump.



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This is spot on. I had trouble with my 1968 GTO squealing the belts. I was always worried about proper tension, but never even considered belt width. My power steering belt should be .500 wide according to the 1969 Pontiac Parts Catalogue. I measured my Napa 25-7525 replacement belt (which Napa says is a proper fit) at .410 wide.

This squealing drove me crazy for awhile before I figured it out. The squealing would start about 3000 RPM.

Glad I got lucky on figuring this one out. I attached a picture here of the Napa belt before I removed it.

The alignment seems to be good and the fluid is full. The part number is irrelevant isn’t it cause it’s CVF setup?

Unless this is an optical illusion, I wouldn't call that alignment
"good". The alternator appears to be either crooked or perhaps
mounted too far back?

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773089696