55 wagon engine swap question
 

Hello looking for a little information, that someone with more experience may have.
I want to install a 72 Pontiac 350 TH350 combination, that is complete and running. I am looking at fabbing up something similar to the Old Hurst mounts.

Now the question, to help with the clearance issue between the L/H exhaust manifold and steering box, I was thinking about the RARE ram air manifolds for the firebird. they look fairly thin at the center exhaust ports, and appear to hug the block well. I am going to contact them to ask for a measurement. and compare to my original 287 manifold.

I also assume maybe incorrect assumption, that I could move slightly to the right side and then attach mounts. Thanks Andy

why not use the 55 manifolds?Tom

Tough to move to the side with the 55's X frame. Little room for the tranny. Would need to fab a tranny mount whether you moved to the right or not.

Thanks, yes a trans mount also, but that seems to be fairly easy addition. Thanks for the insight. Andy

It is my understanding that the ports are extremely small on the 287 manifolds, and that you will really be choking the exhaust. thanks Andy

Here's a 56 compared to a 57, I don't know if a 350 would even run half throttle with the 55-56 manifolds manifolds.....LOL

Talk about trying to breathe through a straw..........:eek:

https://i.ibb.co/dPZPGK9/Exhaust56-57.jpg

57 is a 347 CI, so if you'd want something that would fit the chassis and still have decent size ports, I would be looking for a 57 manifold at bare minimum.

I used factory 1960s-1970s cast iron manifolds to install a 1976 400 with a T400 trans in a 1957 Chieftain. I used Indian Adventures motor mounts which are no longer available. They mounted to the sides of the block and moved the mounting location forward and used a simple round rubber mount like a street rod. I kept raising the block height a little at a time until the exhaust manifold cleared.

im doing the same with a 57 chieftain keep us posted this will be useful .

55-57 chassis close to the same?I had a 55 but so long ago I don’t remember crap about it!Tom

55-57 basically same, ladder style frame, large structural X in the center that the driveshaft goes through, 58-60 X frame, 61 began swept hip perimeter frame.

57-58 share the same rear end except for leaf and coil springs?55-56 same rear end and 59-64 same?Tom

57-64 same third member, of course housings changed due to wide track, and leaf, coil spring changeovers, 55-56 isn't the same third member.

Maybe a little known fact, 58 (pre wide track) will bolt into A bodies on the lower control arm mounts, but you have to fab the upper control arm mounts. Other than that it will fit. The early funny cars (64) sometimes used that swap.

only issue is 57-58 used 29 spline axles besides being shorter and 59-64 used 31.Tom

Sanderson makes a block hugging header that may help. D port or O port.

https://www.sandersonheaders.com/san...eader-set.html

thanks for all the supplied information so far, I am looking into all possibilities.

Just some info for people who want to use either an old center section in a newer car or the other way around. You can do either by just changing the side gears in the differential to the correct spline to match the axles you are going to use. Common practice in the "old" days.

Do you happen to have any Pics of the Indian adventure engine mounts? Thanks

i was just going to ask about that. thank you for the info.

The problem is that parts for the 9.3 third member are pretty scarce at this point in time, finding side gears may be a challenge.

Olds used the same third member also, but finding parts for either isn't simple any longer.

The scarcity on early olds and Pontiac parts is the reason most racers choose to use 9 inch ford rear axles under their cars. It's so much easier/cheaper to locate parts for those.

If you need side gears check with J&S gear.I believe Brad reproduced them and sold the 9.3 stuff to John at J&S.Brad might actually still have some.I think the pinion gears are the same as Dana 44.Tom

If you are removing say a 1963 center section and want to install a 1957 center just swap the side gears from one to the other. No other gears required.

Sorry no I dont have pictures of the IA mounts. But they were not very complicated. They were flat steel that had holes to bolt them on the sides of the block using the original motor mount holes. They came forward to the timing cover area and turned so they were horizontal with a hole in each to bolt them to the crossmember. Use a rubber donut between the mount and the frame for a cushion. By shimming it up you could gain clearance on either side of the engine.

a question, do the Hurst mounts bolt directly to the cross member, with an isolator, or does it need to be set on some sort of perch? thanks.

I've used the old Hurst front mount a couple of times. It is intended to use Ford flathead rubber biscuits. Hurst had a variety of small "stands" to bolt to various crossmembers. If you need pictures let me know.

Thanks Jack I would really like to see some pictures. This is 61 vent I had to create a new account.

I'll see what I've got for images. May need to take some pictures.

In my mind, I have a general idea, but after looking at my frame, started me thinking I possibly needed stands as the Olds used.

Fabcraft has many parts for the 9.3 rear ends (no affiliation, but have bought from them and relatively quick turnaround):
https://fabcraftmetalworks.com/

Sorry for the delay.
First picture is a Hurst front mount for Pontiac, with reproduction Ford flathead cushions.
Second picture is an example of the mount-to-crossmember adaptors that Hurst sold. I think these are ones I used on a '57 Chev crossmember.

Thanks for the engine mount and perches jack! I believe I will need to go with Hurst style #2 since my engine will have aluminum timing chain cover. I am also considering a front motor plate.

Ive used both the 1st and 2nd style Hurst mount in mine. There is a Hurst mount thread in this section if you do a search. But currently went to a front/mid plate set up...

Thanks for that info, I will search that up.

No problem. I have a 55 56 page on fb, any questions , let me know about the swap

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3212...194/?ref=share

I know it's not a Pontiac, however 1954 Olds 324 with Hydamatic. Would that be a direct bolt in for now, until I rebuilt my 287?

The 54 Olds uses the same front motor mount, but I believe it doesn't use a slant pan Hydra-Matic, Therefore the transmission would likely not fit into the frame. If it did, the Pontiac transmission linkage would most likely not connect properly.

Keep in mind that Pontiac V8 has the driver's side cylinder bank offset to the rear. If the Olds has the opposite offset, then there's the possibility of interference at the front or rear of the engine.

Thank you for the technical insights.

Will my timing chain cover bolt up to a 1960 389, and allow me to use my original configuration of engine mounts?

No. For the reason why, see pictures of timing covers and blocks from a '55 and
'60 engine about 1/2 way down the page here:
http://www.pontiacsafari.com/EngineCooling/index.htm

Thanks for that article, dang had a running 60 389 for 125.00.

The timing chain cover of the '60 engine will allow you to attach the front engine mount. No problem.

He asked about putting a '55 timing cover on a '60 block Larry. My answer is correct for that. Your answer is correct for putting the whole '60 engine in the '55 using the front mounting hardware for the '55, but I'll bet he would have a hard time getting the tranny linkage from the '55 to attach to the '60 transmission if you could get the '60 transmission into the 55 x-frame.

Thanks guys for both of your reply. Both are correct first I was just thinking timing chain cover, and did not realize all would work. I keep forgetting about the transmission.

Yes, Bill, we are both correct, I did not mean to imply that you were not correct. You directly answered his question. I gave another option.

To easily use the 60 engine, he would need to use the 55 Hydramatic transmission. The 55 trans will bolt up to the 60 engine. However, he would need to grind a little off the rear of the crankshaft for clearance, as described by Rich Gabrielson on my web site.

So the rear motor mounts would be provided by the the HydraMatic bell housing?

Yes.

I used a 60 timing cover on a 66 389 to use the 1st style Hurst mount. It was machined out for the later style seal and requires a tool to center the cover. Paul Spotts sells the tool on ebay now i believe.

... or you can borrow mine. Been used on 14 early Pontiac V8s to position the timing cover with no complaints yet.

Look here: http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1Garag...ealUpgrade.pdf

Well what's left of it lol. Was just saying its available now. But the only thing is not sure with the changes over the years on the face of the front of the block weather the 60 cover will work. OP is better off using the 2nd style hurst mounts or make his own mounting system.

Just a quick update, I am still in search of a complete engine and transmission assy. from air cleaner to pan and fan to tail shaft here in my local area. I have had a few items I looked at but not what I wanted.