Factory Indian Head logo on 64 head ???
 

Maybe everyone knows this but I sure did not, I was at a friend's place tonight where he had a pair of 64 heads he was asked to paint for the guy and while looking at them, I noticed a Indian Head logo and a Pontiac Arrow on only one of the heads. The heads are 70 GTO number 64 heads.

I have never seen or heard about this before.

A little personalized touch apparently on the normal bare pads.

Tom V.

Interesting , I’ve certainly never seen that before.

Pretty neat. Wonder if it is epoxy. Rather impressive if it is iron.

Although I have never seen that I don't think that was put on after the head was cast .

This prompts me to ask who the heck would take the time to add that to there head, I mean you would have to make a reverse mold just to start with!

A Epoxy mold would not hold for long unless it was the ciramic type, and neither would a Aluminum mold.

If it indeed is cast iron then someone at that foundry that day or shift was having fun .

I really want to know the full story on this, does that pad respond magnetically?

I'll know soon, my friend borrowed my block-off plates so he could sandblast them before painting them, I'll keep you guys updated.

spoke to him today, he blasted them, this is really in cast iron.

This is pretty cool! Always like seeing them slip something unique in there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A guy or gal...just like us gad some fun!!!

Something is still very fishy here with this.

If you look very close at any other flat part of the top of the Exh port area, like for instance the impression of the flat head screws used to hold on the casting numbers you can clearly see minor rust pitting, yet the flat part of either of those logo's we are discussing is pristine.

That should 100% not be !!

I'll try to get some pics now since they are currently sandblasted. My friend doesn't have a cell phone but I'll try to have someone working there send me some pics before he paints them.

Instead of metal added why couldnt this of been done by removing a slight amount of material around it to make the arrow/indian head?

There's never that wide or tall of a pad there as cast, no less with the over hanging lip that is seen there.
What's is there from the factory is round, not oval.

Here is a crystal clear example of what’s normal there.

These two raised pads are where the factory adds stamps for special valve springs used and or chamber sizes on Ram air or HO motors .

I think we have a winner! ^^^

I never like to say, (there is no way it came that way from the factory). Because that statement has been wrong dozens and dozens of times. However, Pontiac V-8's don't have left and right cylinder heads. So the fact that this pair of heads only has one with the cool logos is curious. Second, Pontiac rarely used the Indian head logo and the arrow head logo at the same time on anything. The only exception I can think of was the Indian head bright light indicator in the 1960's big cars. Third, the logo's have too high of a definition to be cast in a sand mold 60 years ago. Finally, IMO, they look cool.

If someone made those by grinding down with a Dremel they sure have a steady have to get the flat surface that true. A real artist.

I never thought about checking the casting dates on the heads, to see if they were a "pair". I'll know more this upcoming week-end.

I'm thinking someone with a die grinder added a signature of sorts. Wouldn't take long to carve, not with a carbide cutter with a point. Looks like the Indian head took full advantage of that little raised pad. Dressing up the surrounding area to be flat is easy enough. Have they had any port work?

While very cool it looks too smooth to be cast like that.

I have seen lead ‘stick on’ letters and numbers to identify manufacturers, sizes, etc on pipe fittings from China when the standard requires the markings to be cast in the fitting.

I would think these would come off or at least be a different color after sandblasting- but could be a possibility.

update, sandblasted pics, not jpeg ??
 

I'm kind of new to i-phones and the guy who sent me the pics, they are in a format I can't upload here (heic instead of the usual JPEG). they are on my phone as we speak, if someone is handy enough with that kind of stuff, I could send him those pics and he could upload them here ? My number is 819-64o-o436 if someone wants to reach me.

The heads were sandblasted today and my buddy confirmed it is the same material as the heads themselves (cast iron). I have four pics.

Screenshot them on your phone and they should load fine. Can’t wait to see them.

or I could send them to an email

screenshot....hear that everyday, don't know what it is much less how it works. When I'm on this website, I use my home computer. Never been on that website from my phone.

Could have been done in a sink EDM. But a lot to go through for that. Unless they are some sort of forgotten early 'aftermarket' head.

A good artist that got creative...that's it. I had a guy etch a name on the side of a beer glass one time,,,completely freehand. It was so perfect I bet nobody would ever believe that wasn't done by a machine.

The fact that this deception was only done to one head of the pair tells you flat out how stupidly time consuming that must have been!

Once sandblasted pictures
 

Finally was able to upload using my phone…. Lots of third party help lol….

You can see an errant tool mark from the saw or cutting wheel. So definitely was carved by someone

I may be in the minority, but I think it is a really cool little trinket they created. I do not believe it was cast that way due to the difference in the finish on the little pads vs all the surrounding cast iron. It is much smoother where the art was "added". But I like it. Thanks for the close-up pictures.

Look folks, face the hard facts here please!

To add those two details with out them being made on a small Plack and screwed down like we see with the interchangeable casting numbers would have required a reverse impression of those being made to the main sand cast molds.

Changes like this to core molds cost a fortune and would have never been approved for a production run of heads, no less to cast up just one head!

I dont think really anybody here is thinking these were casts. Zooming in you can see the cut marks,,,probably took someone maybe a half hour to do it. Whoever did it thought maybe someday someone will see it,post it on a website for others to discuss if these were secret pontiac heads or not. Loll,,,,I guess it worked!

LOL.... Exactly! We did something similar once. We ground off the casting number and added a bow tie. I like the Indian Chief and Pontiac crest idea better.

Or the car had air conditioning and no one would ever see the other side so they didn't bother.

Well the stock air cleaner heat riser shield / pickup housing does fully cover the center exh port section of one of the heads.
That being said you still can clearly see the rust pitting that the rest of the top of that exh port area has , yet those two added areas do not.

In my opinion, I do not think this is something done at the casting level, but it's cool that someone took the time and skill to do it. Probably took way more time than initially thought it would but I would not consider it "stupid" I have done several things to my car to personalize the modifications. Which many people would not spend the time to do, but that's ok. I say good job to whoever did this! Cool

I do mold repair work and use pencil grinders and right angles Every day. I think I could do the arrow head in a few hours and the first one is always the slowest. The Indian head would be a little harder I’m a mold repair guy not a artist but with a little practice and a drawing it could be done.

FWIW, just my opinion, and because I did work in a foundry for about 6 months about 55 years ago. It seems to me that these heads have a raised portion where the insignias are. I would surmise that some union worker, that was bored, used a penny to make the insignias on and glued to to the pattern before the casting was made. It may have been patterns that were scheduled to be retired, or reworked.

The reason I say that, is because a penny is made of copper, and very easy to work with hand tools because of the malleability of that particular metal. My money is on a pattern modification, rather than making the design on an already cast head. I however may be totally wrong, wouldn't be the first time.
It just seems to me from the pictures that the portion is raised above what a stock head would have material in that area.......:noidea:

Just for grins, I'd try laying a penny over the insignia to see if my theory has any merit.

Thanks to the OP for making the board aware of this abnormality, that some frustrated artist has made. :thumbup:

Mikey likes it. Somebody had fun.

My guess is NC something, given the flats are smooth.

Maybe a miniature NC mill? EDM could do it but that equipment seems beyond the means of a hobbyist.

The head is not centered, so I'm thinking hobbyist and a learning curve.