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70' coil spring, help needed
Hi there,
I'm seeking some advice, I will need to buy front & rear coils for my 70 GTO which I'm restoring. body is presently off at the frame, I will replace the body bushings as well. Looking to have a correct stance once done, I want the car to be within the stock ride height. I don't want to end up with 'off road' look. The coils that I had on the car were incorrect. Any suggestion would be appreciated. 400, Auto, PS, PB, non-A/C. |
Not sure if it makes sense for you so just 2 cents. On my second gen Firebird I only have coils on the front. After all the pains of height configuration on the front over the decades, I went to coil-overs. Problem solved for me and I am extremely happy with the flexibility. Wish I had coils on the back, but I am staying OEM style so have figured my way around that. The front flexibility made that aspect easier to work with.
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Front Coils Moog 5390 https://www.ebay.com/itm/39410496498...Bk9SR-biydeRYQ
Rear Coils Moog 6319 https://www.ebay.com/itm/33454256663...Bk9SR-Lw9deRYQ |
For my 72 I bought from Ames and they look stock like I wanted.
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TJS do you have picture of your 72? I need new rear springs for my 72.
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Here ya go. Keep in mind, I also put one inch spacers on top, as some say a vert sags when top is lowered. I am glad I did.
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I need to replace the rear springs on my 70 LeMans to drop the height. This thread confuses me, so thought I'd ask for clarification.
First of all, Coil Spring Specialties are highly recommended but exceed my budget. So I'm targeting off the shelf Moog parts.. My car currently has some unknown "heavy duty" springs but it sits too high for me. Perhaps they were cargo coils or something... I don't remember where I got them but suspect I bought them used off eBay without a clue as to PN ??? https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762206580 mrennie (thanks Michael!) shared some older Moog catalog pages that said these are recommended for a 70 LeMans coupe: Standard, w/ or w/o AC: 5401 Heavy Duty, w/ or w/o AC: 5413 See Michael's post #7... OPH provides lots of detail about Y96 Ride & Handling options here, but doesn't translate into Moog replacement PNs: Link to OPH Info on Suspension Options Questions: 1. Does Moog's "heavy duty" description for the 5413 equate to the Y96 option mentioned by OPH? Here's an older Squidward post of a 5413 on a 72?: Link to Thread https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762206101 Would it sit the same on a 70? Squidward's rear tires look bigger than what I plan to use - P225/70R14s.. so not sure how that would change the look, but I'd like the top of the tire at or inside the top of the opening without a big gap like I have now. 2. Has anyone put Moog 5401 on their 70? Any photos? Here's a post with 5401 on a 68. Would it sit the same on a 70? https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...24#post6588924 https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762206287 3. Does anyone want to share pics of a 70 with KNOWN Moog 5401 or 5413, preferably relatively recent purchases and 14" tires? I'm also open to other Moog PNs.. Mike |
Coil Spring Specialties. They are dead on correct.
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propuckstopper - I did see your recommendation and got a quote. I simply can't justify the custom cost, even if I don't get what I want with off the shelf Moog or aftermarket.
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Here's a photo posted by 68WarDog of his car with 6319: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762231151 Was posted here: Link to another thread Anyone else use this on a 70 with 14" wheels and ~26.5" tires? I also see UMI sells a stock height spring with a rate of 130 lbs/in, which is in between 5401 and 5413. They cost more than Moog, but less than Coil Spring Specialties and are likely to be exactly what they say vs what may be a quality crapshoot with Moog parts. And I like the model UMI chose for their web page: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762231722 I also read several threads about variable rate springs like CC501 but I want to stick with constant rate. Mike |
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Here’s my car with original springs and a 1” rear spacer sitting on 15’s
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I´m using MOOG 5400 in front and MOOG CC501 in rear. Same springs for about 30 years now.
I have found the MOOG 6319 is softer and sits slightly higher. |
Beautiful cars, thanks for the pics and info! This helps a lot.
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That looks great to me. To replicate this, a Moog 5401 and a 1" spacer might do it but depends somewhat on tire diameter. What is the tire diameter? Any idea what you have in the front? The Moog specs suggest the "heavy duty" 5413 would also raise the car about an inch over stock. I'm squirrelly about this, though, because there's a chance what I have now is a 5413. I will measure the wire diameter today and check to see if it's fixed or variable rate, like a CC507 or something... Quote:
I found a receipt that says I installed 5440 in the front. I will look up the differences and see if my front is also jacked up some. I really don't want to swap front again... was not a fun project. The stiffness goal is difficult for me to guess what I want. 5401 - 128 lb/in. 5413 - 166 As you note, the 6319 is even softer than the 5401, reportedly 119 lb/in. UMI makes a case for their 130 lb/in in this blurb: Link to UMI Tech Article - "GM A-Body Spring Height Guide" For your variable rate CC501, it's probably hard to know the "effective" or "instantaneous" spring rate at installed height but the intent was probably to have it be somewhere in the same range of 128 to 166 but it may also have been "stock" on a wagon that had more weight over the rear. This might actually put it at the low end of that range with your lighter car. As to the effect of stiffness, I can guess at the "feel" but hard to know without riding in both. I don't want it to feel like a truck but I assume the 166 lb/in was standard in a GTO or with a "Ride & Handling" suspension option like the Y96 OPH mentions. Is this a safe guess? I like the idea of starting low and using a spacer to increase the height if I don't like it. Thanks for that! Mike |
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Anyone have these specs for the front 5440 PN?
I could not find this PN in the Moog spec docs mrennie shared, but I assume the dimensions are close with the stiffness in between the stock 5372 W/O AC and the 5400 HD. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762274611 Here's the Moog Application guide: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762274710 |
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Well.... this explains a little more than a little....
The rear springs currently on my car are NOT variable rate but measure 0.66" wire diameter, which is off the chart for the Moog PNs. No clue what it is, but it is STIFF, which explains why my car looks like I overfilled the air shocks that don't exist. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762283031 Here's my list of candidates, all with lower spring rates than what's on there now.. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762283131 Tires on there now are 205-70R14, about what they will stay... Can anyone explain these specs better? I understand the dimensions and the spring rates, but not the installed height and loads. Basically, I'm asking what is the ACTUAL static load on a 70 a-body rear spring? Anyone?? Mike |
It looks like your calipers are measuring .61 not .66.
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I bought the 1” spacer from Amazon, just a basic aluminum puck for ‘68-‘72 A body’s. |
67Lemons, thanks again!
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I estimated the stiffness of my current "big-wire" springs (0.66" wire dia), assuming 8 active coils and an average diameter similar to 5401 and 5413. The guess is 179 lb/in. I also assumed a free height of 13.5"... just a guess.
Because the Moog specs effectively show an installed height at a "test load", a direct comparison of installed height in the same car doesn't jump off those pages. So I assumed 800 lbs on each spring and calculated the installed height when compressed from the published free heights (free height - 800 x rate). Here's the installed height ranking I came up with. All make-believe, but maybe useful for "relative" heights and at least feels better than nothing. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762310542 Mike |
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I narrowed my options to cc501 and 5385 and will order the cc501.
They should sit pretty similar, the cc501 being variable rate vs the fixed rate of the 5385. I think both are pretty stiff... hopefully not too much as to ride like a truck. Like many parts for these cars, it appears Moog has discontinued some of the a-body PNs, or at least no-one sells them. Unfortunately, this includes their 5413, which I think is a replacement for the "stock" HD or "Ride & Handling" spring. The 5379 would lift the car a little but is soft, similar to the 6319 and 6321. The UMI spring would probably be good for me, I just don't want to pay for it, at least for now. They told me the free length is 14.5", which would meet the goal of lifting a little over stock. I still haven't figured out what I put in my car, but I think it must have been used in a wagon or some specialty application. I have to go rent a compressor to get them out because the free length is over 13.5" and it's STIFF. Here's my updated chart for anyone interested. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762532108 |
I have the CC501 coils in my '72 vert and I like them a lot. Good ride and not too stiff.
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Ordered. |
Two steps forward, one back.
The spring compressor made the job easy and I swapped springs yesterday. I managed to mangle the washer on a shock mount so I have to fix that before I can see how it all worked out. I was disappointed to find the Moog cc501 is quite a bit longer than what they published in their old catalog. It was listed at 12.6" free length but is now about 14". I am not the only one that noticed this: Link to Discussion on a Chevelle forum Could be a case of Moog, like other aftermarket parts suppliers, changing the manufacturer over the years and caring more about cost than quality. Nothing new here, but I honestly expected more from Moog. And yes, the box was labeled Moog and yes, made in China. Hopefully those of you that shared images with cc501 used these same versions... The cc501 is shorter than what I pulled out and the coil is thinner, so I went ahead and installed them. If they leave the rear too high I guess I can try another PN. And I am part of the problem, as I don't care enough to spend 3X for custom-made springs.... I got what I paid for. Mike |
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I collected as many images of 70-72 with known springs as I could find, so I had some hope of matching others' outcome. To me, the risk is being able to count on any part being what it was a few years ago, even if, like these springs, you buy a name brand and a PN that hasn't changed in 30? years. This is where the forum kicks butt. Having feedback on anything from a bolt to a spring is a gift. Good news is it worked out well enough. The cc501 I bought dropped it low enough to not bother me and it will probably sag a little more. I'm not sure I could do any better without having springs custom-made. I'm calling this project done and moving on to the next. |
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Not as much drop as I expecteded, but I'm happy enough. Thanks to all who shared photos and experience!
As I bought it 22 years ago... I assume stock height: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762745431 A year later, I installed an unknown but too-stiff and too-tall spring: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762745156 Now with cc501: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1762745280 |
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I've ordered new front and rear springs from Ames for three different cars now using the chart in their catalog and they've been perfect all three times.
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