Better decals and labels
 

I've been kicking around the idea of starting a project to create some better underhood and interior decals. There's a lot to be desired in terms of the fonts, spacing and colors used on many of the reproductions.

I haven't done anything like this before, so I'm not really sure what I'm in for, but thought I might give it a try. A number of years ago PB made a more correct 455 HO air cleaner decal, so I know it can be done. I'm looking for something to serve as an experiment. Wondering if you all have any particular example decals that are commonly used, but way off the mark...or maybe a label that hasn't been reproduced before?

Here's an example of a '65 tire pressure decal. Not only are the fonts and spacing wrong, the original appears have been a water slide.

Original:
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1658607200

Reproduction:
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1673034085

good idea boss...i could really use one of these

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.KZfJ3...6&pid=3.1&rm=2

LOL - that one might be a Day 2 addition. I'm guessing it was placed next to the "ass, grass or cash: no one rides for free" sticker.

haha never seen that one...

I've always wondered why a person can't just bed scan, or hand scan originals into a bitmap and touch them up pixel by pixel rather than trying to match fonts etc. ... basically just take a digital "picture" of an original and go from there.

It's very easy to re-create these decals with the right software, with the right vinyl you can print them at home. I do all of that stuff in Corel PhotoPaint. I have PhotoShop, but never use it.

The big thing with aftermarket decals is the adhesive is not as good as OEM.

For kicks I created this window sticker for our Firebird. I scanned both sides of the window sticker from my dad's '69 Grand Prix and copied the font and spacing. I used the data from my PHS documents. Not perfect but fun to do.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1673046847

You know the dealer codes are not for Pete Ganis Pontiac?
Wrong zone too.


:)

I had that sticker on my first 69 firebird 😂

That’s as good or better than the one I bought for my car. It’s not the same as originals I’ve seen textually, yours is.

If hoovdaddy can’t hook you up I know someone who can make them for you I’d have to dig out his info but he does a lot of nostalgia drag race decals. I gave him my super stock nationals original decal I found in my car under the dash to copy and they came out perfect and mine was shriveled up from heat and age he does nice work, . He sells them online now.

FWIW, I've been a professional graphic designer for 25+ years and know the tools and process pretty well. I was looking for a project to connect my two passions while helping the hobby. I saw a gap in the quality and accuracy of decals and thought that might be a good place to start.

Also FWIW, I once tried to match a digital font like that and gave up after scouring several online font collections I could find. I think I was trying to recreate tach graphics at the time...

I concluded it was easier to copy and touch up an image as dataway suggests but I don't have access to professional resources and experience that you have. Even touching up a scanned image, I had to run it through image processing software to dilate and sharpen/soften edges. The printing process will likely be different than the original, which you know will influence the accuracy of the finished product. This may make it difficult to reproduce accurately even if you have the right font.

If you get into "customized" labels with serial numbers, date codes, etc., that may be a bigger challenge. If you are a pro, I'm curious what it would cost to have a font developed for you? How is that even done?

No question there's a market for more accurate reproductions of MANY labels but I am clueless about that and not your market. Obviously many repros like the one you shared were printed with the wrong font and ended up being close, but different.

Yes, I've been busy making decals for my 67. I also made the instrument cluster and jack usage and stowage. Injet vinyl sheet adhesives appear to tolerate automotive use well.

Can someone please make "Ram Air II" hood decals. Use "Ram Air IV" as an exactguide.

Colors: Black, White, Red. I'd like Red.

Everyone owns a pair of scissors, might as well make it "Ram Air III"
That is just so wrong, LOL. Offering custom colors could be fun.

I made new decals for my 1993 Ford tractor by scanning the life size examples found in the service manual, printed on laser adhesive vinyl. Then cut them out, top coated them with spray poly clear and put them on the tractor ... so far been outside for a couple of years and they still look fine.

Vinyl I used was Avery UltraDuty GHS Chemical Labels, originally intended for 50 gal drums. Kind of pricey, $50 for 50 8 x 11 sheets.

This is something I first posted about ten years ago. My brother is a retired Chrysler engineer and lives in a suburb of Detroit. One of his neighbors, who was a retired designer for GM, passed away. When his kids cleaned out his house they tossed a bunch of GM manuals from the early 1960s, and my brother grabbed what he could from the dumpster before it was hauled away.

The manuals aren't the sort of thing you would expect. They mostly describe the elements of GM graphic design for logos, symbols, and text as they were to be used for signage or package labeling. They show how to lay out signs for use in GM offices or factories, and how to design boxes for parts (the familiar boxes you'd see Delco ignition parts in, for example.) Included was this diagram showing how to correctly draw the Pontiac arrowhead, and an example of the Pontiac typeface (called 'Pontiac Gothic'.) Interestingly, the manual says the letters are for "use in headings and display copy, but should never be used in text." There are two different versions of the 'M' for some reason.

I don't know for sure but the font may be useful for some labels and stickers on the car.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...2&d=1349824951

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1349824919

If anyone needs it, I took those dimensions and drew up files in AutoCad .dwg format (2007 for compatibility) and in .dxf format (AutoCad R12) .. don't think I can attach them to this post. But can email them.

Also modeled a quick part from the drawing ... added a bit of a bend to fit a 68 GTO bumper :)

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...0&d=1673092930

You all have been very busy -

K

That glovebox label looks identical to the original. Nice work on all of them.

I revisited my dash tach graphics adventure. I tried to match the font online and failed. There are sites that "image match" like I show in pic. Close but not really close enough when compared to the original.

I also attached the "master" I generated by editing/touching up a photo. I never followed through but had identified a print process I thought would work on the curved surface. I think originals may have been "pad printed" but I don't know. I found some thermal- or pressure-transfer material that worked with inkjet somehow and had a white "ink" but don't remember the process...

There are commercially available "labels" for gauge graphics but not much for Pontiac that I recall.

Anyway, reproducing dinosaur graphics is interesting.. thanks to OP for bringing it up and to others for sharing.

That’s as good or better than the one I bought for my car. It’s not the same as originals I’ve seen textually, yours is.[/QUOTE]

I think somewhere I've seen software that "corrects" things to be printed on curved surfaces? Makes them look funny when flat, but right when applied to a curved surface .... I don't know, something like that.

Math guys love that stuff.. but very practical to correct optical distortion. I can't justify commercial image processing software but have found GIMP to provide a very powerful set of tools for free. I don't do much of that stuff but if I want to play with an image, it's fun.

GIMP has, for example, a tool that will "spheroidize" an image.. basically project it to a spherical surface. It would probably do what you are describing.

Cell phone cameras tend to have a lot of distortion in the optics. I speculate they use similar processing to reduce it.

Would any of you know the original R59 warranty sticker length and width dimensions? My latest decal attempt is to make a reproduction R59 battery look like a service replacement from the dealer in the 70's. Based on NOS web photos, I think the width is 5" but the height is eluding me because of the camera angle. I attached a preliminary one to gauge the size and I think I'm very close.

Not sure on the width, but it looks like the original label uses a condensed font. You’ve got something more modern and rounded on your reproduction (also used a different decender on the g). Off the top of my head, it looks like the original could be Univers Condensed Bold.

Been doing just that to recreate the cruise decal. Takes a lonnnnngggg time. Still have to clean up the arrow and the border.

Will share when I finish.

I'd like to have a couple of those "ass, grass or cash: no one rides for free" stickers. For nostalgia reasons only. ;) LOL

I don't remember cash being one of the choices.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203694592870

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273182255283

Even better...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393022727391

Thank you. I'll try it.

Held fer Ransom.... yeah you are right. :o

I probably could have had a variation. I know some places didn't like selling the original. I know the ones I had didn't look like the one on eBay, so.....

Lol perfect

I remember it as 'Gas, grass or ass... nobody rides for free.'

No, it was "Ass, Gas, or Grass... Nobody Rides for Free". Held for Ransome has it right.

Lol…one of the more pertinent debates on here. Thanks for the correction.

Thanks. Univers Condensed Bold was indeed a better match.

Anyone ever try one of the repro water slide companies?

https://www.bedlamcreations.com/cust...rslide-decals/

Awesome. IMO, fonts can really make or break the perceived authenticity of these things. It helps to know a little bit of type history to know what they had available back then vs. the digital fonts of today. I see a lot of Futura variants and some Franklin Gothic (like the tire pressure decal in the first post) on GM underhood decals from the '60s.

Some repros get this in the ballpark, but most punt and use Helvetica or worse Arial (which came out in 1982). The originals were also hand set so the spacing is all over the place compared to how a computer would lay them out.

Original emissions decal vs. reproduction.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1674155667

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1674155685

The battery label looks great. You obviously invested a lot of time.

And I agree, it's tough to match historical fonts and processes used before WYSIWYG software was available. Thanks to Verdoro 68 for offering some guidance.

I've been futzing around in Illustrator trying to reproduce the emissions label. I've been in the weeds setting kerning, line spacing and manually adjusting the weight of the font to get it as close as possible. It's a little time consuming, but fun.

I overlayed the photo I had to use as a baseline and used guides to get the vertical spacing right. Since I had a 2BBL decal as a reference, the content from the 4BBL label is different (note 5 points for idle setting instead of 4) so I took some artistic license.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1674174632

Overlayed the photo to ensure the type was the right size and spacing. It's not 100% in all areas, but I could get it there with some more tweaking. The reference photo was kind of skewed as well, but not too bad.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1674174809


Compared to the current repro:
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1674175337

After an hour or so I'd call this a more correct '68 emissions decal. Using Futura really changes the personality of the decal and give it the right era vibe. It kind of feels like a label or a document from the Apollo program.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1674175849

You are good at it! Looks close to a photographic repro.. I suspect you're happy after all that work.

Just noticed I put the 2BBL idle speeds on the new 4BBL label. Easy fix, but it goes to show the devil is in the details on these things.

While I'm at it, I eyeballed this one.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1674177283

Would be easy enough to have a forum repository of correct decal graphics created by users. Power of numbers ... hundreds of members vs one guy at some repop shop.

I'm going to try an experiment. After some further tweaks and proofreading, I ordered 20 clear stickers of the '68 emissions decal from a sticker site I've used before. I've had stickers produced on that material before and I think they may come out close the original glossy decal - maybe a little thicker. We'll see what happens. I just refinished my radiator top plate so this decal is top of mind.

Count me in for one ... as I haven't decorated my engine compartment with ANY of the OEM decals yet. Going to need the air cleaner decal too, well actually, I'll need all of them, just haven't looked up what that means yet.

The air cleaner decal shouldn't be a decal. I believe it was originally screened on. That one's on my list to solve someday too.

this is a great discussion;
I have often wondered why the decals offered aren't better, err, more authentic myself.

It seems like someone just says "oh, that's close enough" and calls it a day.

I investigated getting a correct decal for my aircleaner, and found that nothing offered was correct;
even one that I got which was privately made from a company who swore it was 100% correct (they made two(?) of them to restore the same air cleaner);
But, thankfully a member here actually made one that was much better...

In the course of the discussion about my air cleaner decal, I believe it was said that making these infringes on GM rights or something - so they have to be authorized;
I would think a small run, or somehow making this as a community thing might skirt this...

I think one of the other issues with the repops, is they are all printed on the same vinyl;
If I recall correctly, some of the original labels (like the 2nd gen Firebird tire pressure label) were printed on more of a paper material than a plastic or vinyl like the rad support mounted emissions label.

I had the same thought as dataway... that a forum could host shared artwork files. There are online collections of GM marketing brochures so why not label artwork?

Then I also wondered about copyright and trademark laws, licensing, etc.

I can't imagine GM or any of their suppliers enforcing copyrights unless there was a business making money off the designs. I'm no attorney but hobbyists trading label artwork files doesn't seem to threaten anyone's livelihood.

Interesting topic.

And yes, matching materials is another challenge. As I interpret, some of those labels had a plastic film laminated over the base stock. There may be some hot-roll laminator films that would work as overlays?

Speaking of... I layed out a timing tape to put on my damper yesterday (not reproducing anything original, just don't want to spend $15 for a commercial version). Does anyone know if there are "plastic" label stock materials that are sold for use with home ink-jet printers? I'd like to print my tape on a plastic substrate... label stock with adhesive would be a bonus.


Mike

I got the proof back for the sticker and my experiment failed as the clear stickers won't print the black. I got another connection through the GTOAA that I'm going to try.