Progress on the GT-37
 

I just bought this 71 GT-37 the other day. Floors, trunk, frame seem to be solid. Just one small hole in trunk and lots of surface rust on frame. The body is pretty rough. It needs passenger lower quarter and both front fenders are totally rusted out (probably braces too) down low behind the tires. Rear pan under bumper is totally rusted out and front pan under bumper is mashed in.--.probably not salvageable.

It is a base GT-37 with 350 and 3 speed manual on the floor. I am the third owner. It has been sitting in garages since 1992. Right now it doesn't run. I plan to replace the gas tank, line and possibly rebuild carb if I need to just to get it running and see what I've got. Engine does turn and as far as I know has 187,000 miles on it. Also needs cap, points, rotor and plugs... But first I need to redo the brakes as it has none!

I will be posting progress here on this long-term project.
I am not that familiar with Pontiac engines so when I get that far I will definitely need some advice I also need info on Pontiac parts sources. . I guess that's all for now. Hopefully I will figure out these pictures so I can show where it's at here the outset. My plan at thai point is to rebuild the car stock/original...but we'll see.

Congrats on your new project!

awesome

Great find! This would be a neat car to upgrade the engine to a 400 4-bbl or 455HO! Good luck with the build!

Dennis

Thanks! That thought has crossed my mind... We'll see how things go.Here are some more pictures.

Thanks! Here is a picture of the one I had just before I sold it 42 years ago...

You don't see many in this color combo. Good project!

That's true...I read somewhere that the black/gold is a very rare combination they came up with the last half of 71 (,although I'm not sure that's true.). I like the black paint/gold stripe better than the gold paint/black stripe I had years ago.

Here's a current picture of the trunk...

Quezal Gold/w red & black stripes as well as Quezal Gold & the black reflective stripes were fairly popular colors on GT-37's. The two different golds, Cardinal Red, Limekist & Tropical lime, along with the white/blue (as 71 1/2's), IMO, were very popular ordered colors.

Rosewood is IMO, the rarest ordered color all year. Nordic Silver was also quite rarely ordered. The Starlight Black/Gold sword stripe combination was ordered more than the often repeated rumblings from Mr Sawruk. Have to keep in mind, his casual observations were from a limited period of time, at one assembly plant. Thats where the "50" comment came from, versus the actuality of close to half of all GT-37's built that year were built as 71 1/2's.

Pontiac A-body's were built at 5 assembly plants for '71 w Pontiac & Fremont cranking a ton of them out. Through actively compiling the GT-37 Survey in the late 80's-mid 90's, along with actual GT-37's that have ran across since then, have info on over 800 '71 & 71 1/2 GT-37's.

79 Phoenix, In a few of your darker lit pictures, your new '71 1/2 almost looks likes a Wilderness green (very dk green) '72. Had to blow up the pictures & look much closer :)

Thanks for the info. Wish I had a lot more! Who is Mr Sawruk?

I can't seem to figure out how to post the pictures larger. I format them with Microsoft Paint. Then load them with the attachment button (paper clip) and they show up as thumb nails that you have to click on to view larger. BTW if you blew the picture up larger you maybe saw how bad the qtr panel is.

Nice GT-37 project car you have ,Black with with Gold sword stripe is really sharp.

John Sawruk was a PMD engineer and historian later in his career. He special ordered a new 71 1/2 GT-37 as a young engineer that was black with the gold stripes, 400 4-bbl, TH400, 3.55 Safe-T-Track, PS, PDB, Formula wheel, and the H-D frame. Scott Tiemann of Supercar Specialties restored it back in the 1990's and was the car that put the spotlight on the little-known GT-37 at the time.

These pics should serve as inspiration for you as you restore yours.

Dennis

He worked for Pontiac back in that era. Bought a new 71.5 with the same color combo as yours. Was his family car, then sold, bought back and restored. He used to come to POCI convention and often spoke. Neat guy, very smart. Has passed away.

I'm also in the throes of a "refurbishment" of an early (12C) GT-37 that is the opposite of yours when it comes to the option list. It's Canyon Copper with white guts and the red/white 'eyebrow' stripes. I have a thread on it that...https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=790693

I'll be watching your progress with interest!

Dennis

Thanks Dennis. Beautiful GT-37! I will be following your thread as well... I'm sure I will learn a lot of much needed info.
Mine is as basic as they came. I don't think it has any options other than the GT package.. The one I had 40 years ago had the same 350 but it did have the 4 speed, tach in dash, wood grain cluster, PS, PB , vinyl seats. and trim rings When I drop the gas tank I hope to find the build sheet. I have high hopes it will be there as I am only the third owner. The car seems to have been maintained by the original owner just enough to keep it going till it came off the road in 92. It hasn't been messed with much as far as I can tell..

correct, if the option page does not list it, then it had standard equipment.

That's correct! I wish they had checked off the M-22 4-speed trans instead of the air conditioning, but it was ordered in Del Rio, TX, so pretty hot in the summers. I'm not sure if they understood they would get the M-13 3-speed if they didn't select a transmission option??? Anyway, back to the OP's thread.

Dennis

HD Muncie 3spd was only avail as one ratio transmission as the standard equip trans in GT-37's & GTO's. Nearly all non AC 71 GT-37's, I have info on from the Survey, have 3.55 gearing.
Original AC equip 455 HO stick 233's like Dennis's HO GT-37 & my HO Coupe received 3.31's. Non AC received 3.55's.

When a GT-37 was equipped with factory AC & a 350 2bbl stick or 400 4bbl, the ratio in the original 10 bolt would be 3.23.

I believe the HD M-13 3-speed first gear ratio was 2.42, so better than the 2.20 first gear of an M-22 behind the 455HO engine.

Dennis

earlier comments were in connection to the HD Muncie 3spd in '71 Pontiac GT-37's & 400 GTO's, definitely a few different ratios in 3 spds of this era. The Coupe's original M22 & 3.31 XUK will see little time in the car.

The 69-74 Muncie three speed only had two ratios:
The ‘car’ or “B” ratio: 2.42/1.58/1.00
The ‘truck’ or “A” ratio: 3.03/1.75/1.00
I believe that GM’s designation for this transmission was an SM-330 - but depending on the model year, platform or model, it could have one of several RPO’s.
I have read on occasion that some full sized cars could get the “A” ratio, but to date I have not found anything to confirm this.

My observations suggest that “B” gear set transmissions always had a front bearing retainer with an OD suited for a car bell housing, and a tail shaft for a floor shifter, while “A” gear set transmissions always had a front bearing retainer with an OD suited for a truck bell housing, and a tail shaft with no provisions for a floor shifter.

Saginaw three speeds seem to be another case all together;
I gave up on trying to understand GM’s coding for them, and what gear sets they came with;
in part because I didn’t have a baseline to compare anything against…

3.55 gears might explain why, with the GT-37 I had in the late 70's, I could get no better than 15 mpg while commuting 100's of highway miles each week. Mine was a 350 2bbl non-ac 4 speed. Low gas mileage was one of the reasons I sold it as gas was skyrocketing to upwards of $.80/ga!!!! :)

Good to know. Thanks!

When I get that far, I wonder if I could switch from current 3 speed to a 4 speed without affecting the originality and value of the car?

if done properly, I doubt it would affect the value.

From the few first hand accounts I received from people who ran the Muncie three speed, they all suggested that it seemed to be gear perfectly, so I hope you're not looking for a dramatic increase in performance.

Everyone I have spoken to about this transmission cites it's bullet proof durability - and the only reason cited for swapping in a four speed, was for the "cool" factor.
(The guy who I got my '70 Muncie three speed, was quite clear in his assessment of making his car slower - his was a 350-2bbl Lemans of some sort.)

If you do go this route, you can swap over your chrome stick from the three speed shifter into an (OEM/correct) four speed shifter, and all you will be left to contend with is the reverse linkage.

Also, if you do go this route, there may be some people on this board who would be interested in getting that three speed transmission.

Hmmm... Thanks. That's good food for thought. I appreciate your input!

I changed to a B-W ST-10 4-speed with the 2.64 1st gear since my M-13 was worn out. It's in my thread somewhere...but I don't believe changing over to a 4-speed, especially an M-20 Muncie, would reduce the value at all. Just keep your original M-13. I just had to get the correct levers/rods to work with the trans which I got from Crash Enterprises. I reused the original shifter handle & 3-spd pattern ball, so you would never know there was a change. The original back-drive all worked too.

Dennis

Good info. Thanks!

Hope you have good luck on that.
Which plant was it built at ?
If it was Atlanta , they usually had one taped on the inside of a door panel

You might have a handful of minor options.
Carpet
Radio ? do you have an in-glass antenna in the windshield ?
SoftRay windshield ?
Recess wipers ?
super lucky would be a saf-t-track rear axle

These other guys will know for sure but seems like they all came with Rally2 wheels

Yep, Rally II wheels without the trim rings came with the GT-37 package.

Dennis

Yes it has carpet, AM radio--antenna must be in windshield which is tinted. Wipers are recessed... That would be neat if it's posi.

Yes I like them without the trim rings... The one I had years ago had them but now I prefer w/o.

AND SO IT BEGINS...
 

Late this afternoon I had a little time to slowly wade into the brakes... Lots of rust after unheated garages for 30 years! Drums (at least this one) not as bad as I was expecting. Anyway, ordered all new brake parts...shoes, wheel cylinders, hardware, rubber hoses... Will also replace front wheel bearings and will be taking drums to be checked out and turned... Hopefully they can be turned but this first one doesn't look too bad..

Also have a new pressure washer coming. First halfway warmer day I will push it into the driveway, blast the underside first, the top side and engine compartment. There is a long road ahead but I'm glad to begin.

I REALLY APPRECIATE all the info you all are giving me! There is much to learn about GT-37's.Gt-37 definitely interesting cars! Here are a couple pictures...

If you don't have master cylinder on your list - probably should.
Maybe a power brake booster upgrade too.

Yes I have a master cylinder on the way. If I converted to power brakes, would it just be a matter of booster, different master cylinder and different metal lines?

Usually that's it.
Sometimes the lines can be stretched if they have loops in them.
New ones are good insurance if you have much corrosion

Ok thanks. I think I'm going to stick with the manual brakes but get new OE lines... That way everything will be new. Lots of surface rust underneath car and it has been sitting 30 years... Plus, the old ones are 52 years old to begin with...

Wheel Question
 

I have an opportunity to buy two different pairs of 15X7 Rally II's. One pair is KS and the other is HM. A FEW QUESTIONS:

1) Is there any noticeable difference between these two codes? Is backspace the same? Look ok on a GT-37?

2) Would this have any significant affect on the value of my GT-37 when it's finished since neither of these codes are probably the same as originals (nor the wheel size)

BTW, starting to make a little progress...Needed some time to get things organized, buy tools and order parts.. Update coming soon.

I would not expect it to make a dent in the value.

I have not observed any physical difference for any of the 1973 & newer Rally II wheels - other than getting on your knees (and possibly removing the trim rings) to inspect the stamped code, they are all identical.

IIRC the wheels that came on my car were a mismatched set, and I only realized it when I stripped them for paint!

KS are 14x7 Rally II's, so double check those codes. HM 15x7 Rally II's are really easy to find and abundant. I agree with Jonathon, that there wouldn't be any loss of value to your GT-37 by installing 15x7 wheels, plus more tire options than 14's. If you were doing a concours restoration (I hope not), then you would need to find 14x6 KU Rally II's. My GT-37 came with 14x7 Honeycombs that I won't be running since I'm not restoring the car to concours level, but just a nicer version of the way the car sits now...because I want to drive it. I'll be running 15" wheels of several varieties...Rally II's, steel wheels with dog dishes, and maybe some American A-200 Daisy's.
Looking forward to progress posts & pics!

Dennis

Purpose Build
 

Above is a term, I began to use in conversation & in text, near 25 years ago regarding restorations & preservation projects. Originally, there were no Pontiac A-body's equipped with 14x7 Rally II whels until the '72 models arrived. 14x7 Honeycombs arrived on A-body's & Formulas for the '71 model years, my HO T-37 Coupe was optioned with them, & they are also quite heavy.

If the Purpose Build for the car is to do, for instance, a PureStock build, say with a fairly easy to obtain '71 96 headed 400 engine, or restore to anything close to an as originally built 350 car, 14x6 Rally II's, coded KU 14x6's would be the way to go. Not just because its a code thing, but the wider 14x7's, as well as larger 15x7 rally II's are easily noticeable from several car lengths away.

In regards to what you are being offered, KS coded rally II's are 14x7's. HM's are '73-74-75 15x7 rally II's. The HM's are fairly much indisguishable from their replacements, the 15x7 HM's.

good catch on the 14” wheel codes guys;
I took the post at face value, and only looked at the 15x7” Rally II codes I had here on my phone;
it hadn’t “clicked” that KS was a 14” wheel code - and I should have known that!!