Experimental Pontiac Engine Found in Storage
 

Larry Dillon is one of those devoted Pontiac fanatics whose mission in life is to discover sad and neglected high-powered Pontiacs and return them to the streets where they belong. It's something that's been near and dear to his heart for the last four decades.
Larry's taste for Pontiac horsepower has put him in the seat of many top-tier muscle cars over the years. Countless GTOs, 2+2s, and Bonnevilles have made their way into his stable, and he's always on the lookout for more rare rides. It was another prize from Pontiac that recently made its way into his collection, and it happened under the most bizarre circumstances.

"I got this cool Latham blower from a friend of mine," Larry said. "His dad had it on a '60 Vette. It was unique, and I figured I could always use it, and I put it to use right away. One day my buddy Anthony came over looking for some parts for a GTO he was building. He saw the Latham, and that sight must have jogged his memory, because he then told me about some crazy experimental Pontiac engine a friend of his had stashed away. That got me interested in just exactly what this powerplant was."

Anthony relayed that the engine had overhead cams and fuel injection. It was a 303 engine built in the late '60s for Pontiac by a group in Australia. It was possibly for Trans Am racing and had never been installed in a vehicle.

"The whole thing sounded pretty crazy," Larry said, "but as we all know, this hobby can get way out there at times. I really had to see this motor."

ventually, Larry got to meet the owner, who provided the rest of the story. "He told me he was going to school at General Motors Institute in the late '90s," Larry said. "At that time, GMI was moving to a new building, and this motor had been stashed there years before. They had no need for it and planned to scrap it. So, this kid asked if he could have it, and GMI said yes. It seems pretty surreal that they would just hand this over to a student, but they did, and they gave him all the release forms needed to take possession."

In Michael Lamm's book, The Fabulous Firebird, there's a page dedicated to this engine. It states that around 1967, Pontiac general manager John DeLorean contracted driver/builder Jack Brabham and his REPCO group in Australia to design and build an overhead-cam 5-liter version of the Pontiac 400 for SCCA racing. This engine was to be another stepping stone to the future development of the 1969 Pontiac Trans Am.

Pontiac liked REPCO's design and ordered five complete engines, along with a set of spares. There were some important features Pontiac required on these high-revving beasts. The engines had to have a head bolt pattern that would accept Pontiac heads, they had to include a Pontiac sump pump setup, and they would also need to use other Pontiac parts such as seals and gaskets.

The engine blocks were made in cast iron by REPCO, and the aluminum cylinder heads boasted single overhead cams and a Lucas mechanical fuel injection system. At 13:1 compression, it's built for serious performance. Sadly, only one complete engine was finished before interest waned. It has been said that Pontiac was not impressed by its power output and that a 303ci short-block, built with modified Ram Air IV heads and a single four-barrel carburetor, outperformed the exotic REPCO engine. That was enough to seal the project's fate.

From its birth land of Australia, the one complete REPCO engine made its way to GMI in Detroit, where it lived out most of its years. The new "student" owner then transported it back to his home in New Jersey where he kept it tucked away, thinking of what he could possibly do with such a rare and exotic piece. There it sat for 20 years; the chance to put it in a car never materialized. It was only recently that Larry found out about it and purchased the engine.

"I'm a lover of all things Pontiac," Larry said. "When I got the opportunity to purchase it, I also didn't have a thought on what to put it in. Obviously, a Firebird would be the car of choice, but right now I'm loaded down with project cars. I would love to see it go to someone who wants to get it running and installed in a proper ride. From what I can see, the engine is clean, complete, and everything looks great. East Coast Pontiac guru Larry Hansen came over and inspected the engine with a borescope and a compression test. It passed with flying colors. It turns freely and should fire up with the right coaxing."

Larry is thinking of taking the engine out for a public display if no one buys it from him. "I'd love to get it out there in the public eye and check out how true Pontiac fans react to it. So, it's possible that it might make the trip to the Pontiac Nationals in Norwalk, Ohio, on July 21-23 [2023]. I hope to see this engine getting the recognition it deserves," he said. "It's another piece of both Pontiac and GM history that needs to be valued by the hobby."

More pictures on the Motor Trend website at https://www.motortrend.com/features/...-engine-found/

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...9&d=1690384486

I could see that happening.

I don't recall stumbling across it while I was attending GMI (1979-1984) and wandering the bowels of the various buildings.

K

That's crazy....stupid question; is there still a T/A retro series running today?

Very cool story. I remember when I’d talk about stephen Pontiacs aluminum block dual quad RAV and most Pontiac people (even those highly immersed in the hobby), would say they never made a Pontiac aluminum block or RAV dual quads from the factory. �� I’d say no you just never saw one yet. This was in the days before the internet (Hemings ads days ).

They made a lot of test pieces All kinds of variations. There’s crazy (sometimes little) anomalies from the norm out there floating around .

I I grew up next to a performance dealer so I’d seen or heard of some cool stuff and that was in CT, imagine what’s floating around that got back doored out of the factory.

Very cool! Thanks for sharing! I hope it gets running soon! Wonder what numbers it made?

I think that engine was sitting race side at the top of the track at Norwalk. Didn't take any pictures though.

I would bet it did better than the regular 303 Ram5 engine .

303cid just wasn't optimal with giant ports .
Lay that stuff on top of some big cubes and make us all proud !

Aluminum , OHC , RamAir V tunnel port heads .
Damn. :beerchug:

Dimitri Toth's dad is the guy that made all the experimental cast parts.

Dimitri is still kicking around and has well over 50 years seniority at the Pontiac Michigan home plant.

K

Found a picture Larry posted on FB.

Those exhaust ports are awful thin aren't they? That why the coolant lines are there? That engine would have the whole car show around it I'd think!

I was lucky enough to own a few alu blocks and one complete alu engine.Tom

Yes there is. In my opinion the Australians have the best one with more racing and less parading around the track.

https://www.australiantransam.com.au/

https://youtu.be/YWM7T3jlqeg

That is very cool. Still some amazing stuff stored away in the Design Center as well as some warehouses around SE Michigan.

Yes the article said it would be at Norwalk and for sale if anyone was interested. Question is how much? Yes I asked and can't afford it.

Don posted a you tube video about it at Norwalk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCQZNux6pok

Clay

Someone posted this engine on Instagram a couple of weeks ago. They were selling it and asking $1,500 for it...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CuymE4vt0lh/?img_index=1

Is pontiac_spare_parts2 the real owner or a scammer?

Is it still for sale at the $1,500 price tag?

When I worked at GM Research, starting in 1986, I found and engine on an engine stand up in a loft. It was a 1967 GTO 400 with 670 heads and a handle and a bar going over the rocker arms. My dad told me they were experimenting with variable valve timing and by moving the handle fore or aft it would vary the timing so many degrees. He said it could idle smooth as glass at 400 rpm. There were a lot of interesting projects GM Research always had going on.

That's so cool...thx mate

Price was 35k at Norwalk. He turned down a 28k offer.

Clay

Should’ve taken the 28k and ran.

Not too many folks are willing to throw down that kinda coin for something that’s garage art at best, the next one who is might offer less.

Offering 80% of the asking price is entirely reasonable in my thinking, maybe coming down to 30k would have sealed the deal.

“garage art at best ”. hmmmmm . . . .

I’d bet that Jack could make that thing work and set a LSR with it!

But ya, I have a feeling he will have a very hard time getting that much money for it.

Seriously, who’s really gonna run that thing the way is was meant to be run?

No replacement parts available.

Sure anyone with deep enough pockets and a full machine shop at their disposal with an expert running it possibly could, but realistically it’s garage art.

Something like that would be worth most in a period correct configuration, cranking and putt, putting around for show

That's got McKeller tracks all over it

Anybody know what the cam followers look like? Combustion chambers?

The only "garage art" to some of us is something that's broken beyond repair. All else can be put to use.

Absolutely agree Jack. I see no reason at all that engine could not be running again. That engine is no more complex, special, or wall art than your lakester engine. I have seen your engine on the dyno, running on a stand, racing down a drag strip on numerous occasions. I would think anyone with the money to buy it could and would want to get it running on a display stand or in some car. Having it in running condition increases it's value exponentially in my eyes. Very cool find.

I personally would like to know the name of the scumbag who stole the cammer engine out of Mac's 1963 Catalina.
On his retirement GM gave MAC a running car/cammer engine which MAC took to many car shows in the Detroit area.

Tom V.

I know the name.

K

The whole top end and cam drive , all of that needs to be copied and reproduced .

I was there in 1973-1978 and it wasn't there. We did have a 1971 Firebird Esprit that came with the 350 2 barrel. The "Firebirds" club under the guidance of Professor Jim Lyons installed a small turbocharger on the engine, pulling through a 2 barrel carb from a Chevrolet Vega. The intake manifold consisted of a 3 pound coffee can with 1 inch diameter copper tubing going to each intake port in the heads. We managed to get one of the very first lock-up torque converter turbo 350 transmissions from Hydra-matic for the build and we entered the vehicle in the Clean Air Car Competition. The car managed an amazing 28 mpg on the city cycle and 21 mpg on the highway taking 2nd place in the competition. We got dinged on NOX emissions-no catalytic converters yet. When Hydra-matic asked for their transmission back, we had to inform them the car had gone to the crusher. That didn't go over well.

Other engines in the lab included the Buick 3.8 V-6, both NA and an early turbo version, the developmental "Iron Duke", a Chevy 350 and an Olds 350. Thanks to Professor Lyons relationship with Pontiac (He later went to Pontiac as head of the 301 Turbo team), we managed to have an SD455 on a stand for a while.

Since I co-oped from the Lordstown plant, I tried to secure a Cosworth Vega engine for school, but because the short block was hand assembled, serialized, signed by the engine builder and carefully recorded for registration with Cosworth Engineering, GMAD could not release an engine from the vehicle assembly plant.

Ah - yes. Those GMI profs were good people.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1690477168

I was sponsored by Chevrolet Flint Assembly (Van Slyke and Atherton rds).

For those of you following along: I just want to point out that this was a five year program. Four years of study with a thesis during the fifth year.

I didn't want the reader to think we were a couple dummies.

K

Somebody with Max Werner's skills and resources. Saw his car run 12 or 15 years ago at PIR. He was pushing it hard enough to cause the wire wheels to show deflection in the corners, while the car was in a 4 wheel drift. All the while he was sawing that huge 24 or so inch steering wheel back and forth like a madman.
His Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 with its pedigree is deep in the realm of truely pricelesps automobiles. Not to mention there are no parts available for him either.

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/chas...a-2211120.html

That's an incredible piece of Pontiac history. I agree that it would be crazy to run that motor in a car. It belongs in a museum somewhere. Maybe somewhere like the Brothers Collection or something like that. In fact, I'd bet that if the owner contacted them, they'd be interested.

I'm torn between museum and road course! lol It is too rare to be destroyed though. Museum is probably the place for it.

And not to mention that 18 week semesters of normal colleges were compressed into 12 week semesters for us, so my average class load for the nine semesters was 21-23 hours with my senior III semester at 26 hours. But I always believed that since we made it through that, we could make it through anything. I'd do it all over again given the chance. It was an unbeatable experience.

Hoping to get back up there with my 1970 Firebird and visit the new learning center.