Butler engine rebuilders
 

Just curios, has anyone gotten an engine built from butler in the last 3 years, everytime i email them about an engine being built, i get, you need to order from such a date..................i call on that date, and get we are already booked for that year.............guess i will have to try for 2024.

Rich

Get someone else to do it. What is the big deal about Butler having to rebuild anyone's engine ?

Yep been hearing that all to often, their book solid for a year. They don’t just do Pontiac engines.

Butler is big into LS engines now. You don't have to have a "Pontiac" engine builder. It's nice but not necessary. The best engine I ever had built was not built by a Pontiac person but by someone who really knew what he was doing and then dynoed before released to me. That engine was raced for 4 years and has been driven so far 21 years on the street.

There’s more money in building LS engines and BBC then building Pontiac engines Only problem is finding a that good engine builder in your area. Ask Chiarelli..LOL

Where are you located?

i would get ahold of Paul Knippen's Muscle Motors in Sandwich, IL

Paul is in TX now!Tom

try Richie H in Long Island?
there'res many others as well, and lately i've seen some smaller shops that show videos of rebuilding pontiacs, good to see the little shops stepping in to, search youtube
never know with this economy some may be looking for work
i'll admit i get envious and jealous when i see Shafiroffs website, sometimes they have killer deals on complete engines. don't know how accurate their claims are power wise, but the options for the BBC/SBC sure can make one envious.

Next build I’m doing assembly - just gotta find a good machine shop near by.

Well that's just blasphemy! Don't you know only professional Pontiac builders can build Pontiac engines? They're extremely complicated don't ya know? lol

You have several great options in your home State.

BOP

Luhn

Wayne Schicantek
4148019230

Yes, I heard that he moved but a profile search as of 7/9/23 indicated that he is in Canoga Park, California. Of course that was almost three months ago and maybe he didn't like Cali and moved to Texas like so many others.

I was planning to get some work done at his shop as Sandwich is just several towns over from me-----as usual I'm a day late and a dollar short. :mad:

Paul Spots or Jim Robertson in Abilene Texas

https://www.facebook.com/brentwilliam.flynn Just a few hours from you in Middletown, In. Specializes in Pontiac builds.

Good luck. They are getting harder and harder to find. The two I use are up in years; Linus is 72; Gerald is in his mid eighties.

Thanks for the info guys..............i had wayne do a engine in 2007............not gonna get into it but a few issues..............would rather try somewhere else.............i know a few guys that had motors built by wayne, top notch............cant say that for mine...............thinking of calling wayne again, try to patch things up and maybe try again.

Rich

unfortunately Rich that’s how it goes

Did you consider Len Williams in OK...maybe too far

I’ve heard really good things about LEN. .

In the north east
Established in 1969
Leifert auto machine Torrington CT.
Been doing all my machine and sometimes even my partial assembly for 35 years

My turbo engine has been bulletproof!!! Larry used to do all the GT1 road race engines and has done many 24 hr race engines. ( This includes Paul Newman’s the actors race engines )
A new person who had been around Larry for years (Trevor) took over and I was nervous w the change over at first but he’s really good , Larry’s been training him for years now and Larry’s brother eddy is still there doing assembly.

I’ve done engjnes for customers there as well . Never once was unhappy with the machine work or an engine I had come from that shop.

Course I don’t care where you go or how good of parts you use, if you screw up the tune it’s living on borrowed time, same goes with a good cooling system. Some things just can’t be blamed on the machinist or engine builder. Other things can.

Wayne has always been top notch with me.

John Stolpa in Waterford

Not sure if you talked with John in the last couple of years but he has had some unfortunate structural issues with his shop. You Old's guys are fortunate to have him. It looks like he's made the decision to only work with the Oldsmobile faithful.

I use Cruisers Motorsports in Danbury, CT :
Address: 39 Federal Road, Danbury, CT 06810
Phone #: (203)744-8863
Website:https://cruisersmotorsports.com/
The owner is Bob Schmus. I have been going to his shop since 2009. He has built five engines for me as follows:
All Pontiacs engines
406 in a 1978 TA S/E
433 RA IV in a 1970 TA
461 in a 1978 TA S/E
461 in a 1970 GTO
496 in a 1973 TA has SD #16 heads.

One last engine will be built for a 1969 GTO. It will be a 461 with RA II heads.

Bob is a Pontiac guy, but builds Mopar, Chevy, Buick, Olds & Fords.

He owns a 1970 GTO, 1999 TA & 1979 10th Annv. TA

2X on Paul Spotts, all he does are Pontiacs, and for many years

What about Kauffman? I just saw the hemi engine he just built for the Gasser Bros, very impressive!

About a year ago David Butler told me that they dropped the LS stuff and only do Pontiacs now.

:hooray:

I would venture a guess that Butler figured they had more than enough business focusing on the Pontiac engine niche market and decided since there are more than plenty of shops doing LS stuff why go there.

I had a small engine mechanic rebuild the 455 HO in my Trans Am. It was worn out and had a bent rod which he replaced. He did it in his car port. That engine ran great for the 7 years I had that car; I put a lot of miles on it too. Its a matter of attention to detail.

Hey, thanks guys for all the tips on shops.................i dont want to pull this motor out again to be worked on, shop i used was in Green Lake Wi, told me a month, took 8 months............and still the same issues, motor runs great, just leaks oil, rear main or whatever...............getting up there in age and really dont want to go thru this again, this would be the 3rd time this motor has been redone...............im at the 3 strikes your out game...............looking for a complete motor that runs good and doesnt leak, i know im asking alot here............lol................the only reason i mentioned Butler is because they have the motors there already, well that is if they ever call you and say your on the list.

I talked to Paul Korner a few times on the phone, seems like a great guy.................just AZ is a long way from me....................im thinking something on the forum will pop up sooner or later for a decent motor..............bascially im looking for a top notch bottom end, i have the kre heads and tri power for the top end.

Thanks for the help, i appreciate it

Rich

Maybe there's some back story here we don't have. Has the engine always leaked after several rebuilds? Possibly some machining issue as a result? You're going to have to pull and replace the engine anyhow. If it runs great, but leaks oil and that's not attributed to some sort of machining issue, why not yank it out, seal it back up and put it back in the car?

I had to pull my engine this spring due to a bonehead move by an exhaust shop. Like your case, my engine ran well but leaked a good amount of oil. While it was out it got a new pan, 1 piece gasket, verified a dry front and rear main etc. Now the engine is leak free.

Something to consider anyway.

I've heard really good things about Paul C in Tucson, but I know he's pretty swamped right now. Torqhead from the board recently had some work done and could only get some machining done in a pinch. In fact, as I looked around while my engine was out, it seems most everyone is a year or more out.

I am sure that David Butler working with Tony Bischoff on the latest Pontiac Cylinder Head designs and and David and Rodney supplying the bottom end parts, they are quite busy in Tennessee.

First time I have looked at their website in 6 years.

David, Rodney, and Jim (along with Mrs Butler) have made that quite a business.

Tom V.

Hey Jason, good to hear from you...............i think you hit it on the head im thinking something has not been right since the first rebuild in 2007.............motor ran great, but seemed to burn oil /leak...............rebuild in 2010............motor ran great, but same issue............this time in 2023 i had the motor re-ringed, that stopped the oil burning, motor runs great, but still have the leaks..................i do have the one pc bop rear main seal, the shop did a smoke test, says no issues....................well that isnt excately true..........lol............im wondering when he said he did a smoke test, if that wasnt the wacky tobaccy test...........

Im doing some testing on the leakage, and gonna post on that to see if its even worth messing around with it...............but since 2007 i always have had some oil in the inspection cover, but never a drop in the garage, but always hade enough oil on the underside...............i assume it was dripping while driving...............but this year is the first time its dripped in the garage.

Dont know for sure what rear main was used in 2007, but in 2010 it was the best gasket graphite gasket seal..............this year the one piece bop gasket also with the one piece oil pan gasket.............dont want to pull this motor again and try again with it...................im thinking something is wrong with it one way or the other.................its not like im having some hacks put this thing together...........2 builders from the forum, and one from green lake wi...............this is the one who said, im real familar with the bop one pic gasket..............he also said the smoke test showed no issues...................needless to say i wont be seeing him again..........

Rich

I guess no one told the web site people that they, "Butler", dropped LS engines:

https://butler-ls.com/

The link works just fine BTW.........:D

They also occasionally still have YouTube videos of LS builds

So it sounds like mainly oil in the inspection cover area. Is the starter covered in oil?

This is the same area my engine leaked from. There were actually multiple leaks in the following areas.

1. Oil Pan U Channel (main was and remains dry)
2. Back of both valve covers
3. Fuel Pump gasket

The fuel pump area will leak, run along the oil pan rails, then leak onto the starter and into the inspection area. That can go overlooked.

Jason, thanks for that info................both of my valve covers look good, no oil anywhere on them..............i will double check the fuel pump gasket, i did use silicone on the bolts to the pump................gonna get the car up in the air some in the next day or two and see if i can get a better pic of whats going on...................i have a robb mc mini starter, maybe a drop or two near it...............thought that might be coming from the inspection cover while flywheel is throwing stuff around.............im getting a little oil on the ps header while im driving................i can smell that....................think my oil filter adapter might be cracked...................i have the kre alum adapter on there , pretty old piece, seems every year im cranking the oil filter tighter and tighter on that thing, so thats a part of the issue.

Still doing some experiments with this drip stuff.....................think i will start a new thread on that, otherwise this gets too confusing adding to this thread.

Rich

Butlers LS website is still up and running I was just looking at it a couple days ago.

Here’s my take, I could be wrong. There’s more money in doing LS motors, only real money in a Pontiac hobby is selling rotating assembly kits. Heads etc. specially as the majority using stock blocks. The availability of stock blocks and what you have to go through to make sure it’s a good block. I had a friend call recently they told him 9 months or better before they could even consider giving him a price. They have real good video of the whole process to go through to check out a stock block. It’s very time consuming and labor intense. VS dealing with aftermarket block.

EXACTLY!!! There are many builders out there that can do just as good or better.

Just pick a good machine shop and build it yourself.
There is always the pride of know you did it and turned every nut and bolt yourself.
You could write a check and have it done. But its not the same.

GO TO ANY ONE OF THEM IF IT MAKES YOU HAPPY.

(I am sure that the Butler family is not going to starve because you will not have them work on your engine. Same deal with Tony Bischoff.)

Have a good day.

Tom V.

Rich, I don’t know how much of a trip it would be for you but I have a shop thats like 20 minute drive from me. The nice thing is one of the guys that helps run it is a Pontiac guy. He has it all dyno flow bench. When they moved into this new building he had built, I did the plumbing. So I have a great relationship with all. And I can tell you, their work is right on the money. From the balancing to the boring. I’ve done quite a few motors through them just helping friends. You know kind of over seeing everything.

Tom,
Just how long should he wait to try and get Butler to build has engine before going elsewhere?

Stan

Hey thanks Gatch, R.I..............that would be one long trip.........the only reason i mentioned Butler in the first place.............i really dont want to fix this motor again, been done 3 times and still the same issues...........so im assuming something is wrong with the block itself..............for all these oil leakage issues. This motor has been in and out 3 times, im getting too old to keep messing with this thing.........was hoping to get everything done at one place and be done with it..................when checking with butler, they have no 455 blocks, so i would have to use mine..............not gonna go in that direction.

Just going to keep my eyes open and see if anything used comes up, within a day or two of driving to pick it up.................not looking for a stock type build.

As far as doing it myself, wished i would have tried that 20 yrs ago, while working i could afford a major mishap and have to start over ...............now on SS its a different story............lol

Rich

I hear you’re Rich. This rear main seal issue quite a few are having just blowing me away.

Have you considered Paul Spotts in Hatfield, Pennsylvania.

Simple telephone call would tell him where he would be in the Butler "cue".
Not rocket science Stan. If the date is too far out then depending on where he is located in the US there are other qualified engine builders out there.

No mention, from others, about where the ECM guys have gotten their engines build over the years.

So without info you really can't make any decision. Just complain about Butlers possible delivery date.

This is really not hard, Stan.

TV

I didn’t see him complaining about Butler mostly showing disappointment.