Pasture Find!..How to identify a true 63 Catalina 421 Super Duty?
 

Would really like to know how to truly identify a 63 421 super duty. He is supposed to have the original engine with it although not in the car, Supposedly was/is a dual 4 barrel car but unclear of how complete the engine is at this point. Here are the pictures that i have of it as well as the description in the ad. Any help on what to look for or check would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

1963 Pontiac Catalina· Sedan
Super Duty 421 · Driven 123,456 miles factory paint : Black
C

1963 Pontiac Catalina
Super Duty 421
With factory hood scoop, two-door, solid car body great shape one dent in front passenger fender no rust on outer shell, needs front floor all windows are there but the front windshield is cracked won't respond to any is this available or any codes so don't bother trying SERIOUS buyers only, if u don't have the cash don't message this is to all the tire kickers wasting my time (have Motor) no transmission

More pics....

more pics.....

more pics.......

The 63 SD car vins are in Pete McCarthys book,EZ to verify.Many of us on this board have the books if you want to post the vin.Tom

Don’t think I remember ever seeing a SD Cat with a radio.Hood scoops did not come on the SD cars,over the counter part.Tom

Get him to shoot you a picture of the vin tag. All but two of the real '63 Cat 2 dr HT sd car vins are in McCarthy's book. Then come back here and give us the vin he gives you.

Tom's post popped up while I was typing. I agree with Tom highly unlikely imo that is a real sd car. It is also an automatic.

VIN is 363P140539

I don't see that VIN listed in Pete's book.

K

So much for the car. It would be interesting to see if he's telling the truth about having an SD engine.

Any ideas what the car would be worth as a 421 non SD car? As it sits....

you would need the PHS to confirm it was a 421 car first,being a auto will reduce the value.Someone could have put the 421 badges on the car at some time of its life.Tom

$2800 is the asking for the car. Really a solid car, needs front floor pans but trunk, frame 1/4s are all solid. Was a race car most of its life. Is there a guide online somewhere that would have part number and casting numbers etc that i can print off and take to check the engine numbers? Did Pontiac stamp the blocks with a partial VIN somewhere a well? Thanks

Try my website for the engine codes

Engine Codes

Search by year or engine code or any of the inputs.

The 63 engines may have a VIN on them.

:)

You need to put eyes on the engine and check the numbers. Also post pics of the engine.

I went ahead and ordered a PHS on it so we will see exactly what it is.

Tom, were any of the SD cars hardtops? I could have sworn they were posts.

Lots of them.

Would anyone have a photo of the page(s) that list the VIN's of the SD cars so that i have it for a reference when i go to look at this car in order to be able to show the seller that it is not a actual SD car? Thanks

.....

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1696593138

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1696593154

If the seller doubts this information feel free to remind him that Fred Simmonds, the original Pontiac Historian, went through tens of thousands of vehicle invoices for the '62 and '63 model year - by hand - and wrote down the VINs showing Super Duty content.

K

If the guy is only asking $2800, that's a dead giveaway he knows it's not a real SD.

Good point, Stuart. The last barn find went for $225,431.63.

K

For $2800 bucks I think I could live with it whether it's a SD or not...that is, if I were in the market for a car in that condition at the time.

A couple of years ago I sold a '63 coupe that looked like that car and another '63 four door that was better than that car both to Herb Patton for $1000. He had a guy with a long flatbed come down here and haul both of them back to Nebraska. The coupe was a factory 389 tripower four speed car and I had the phs papers on it. I wanted them both gone. Both cars were rollers no engines or transmissions. $2800 is way too much for that car imo. You asked.

I don't think $2800 is necessarily a bad price for that car in today's market. The pictures show a lot of surface rust, but you can't tell if there's any rust through or heavy corrosion so it really comes down to what it looks like in person.

61-63,
Even if the 421 is real and comes with it? I admit that I don't know the B body values.

It wasn't clear to me if the engine was included in the price - if it is included, even if it's a regular 421 that's worth quite a bit.

I'm thinking at least half the asking price for a rebuildable 421.

It may be hard to read, but this is a page from Pete McCarthy's book for the engine codes for 1963. The HO and SD engines are at the very bottom but there are a number of regular 421 engines too. The chart also includes the head codes, intakes, whether the engine was used with a manual or automatic transmission, etc.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...9&d=1696604209

Yes engine is included with the car just no transmission. He swears its the original engine and it was originally a dual 4 barrel car. He is 2nd owner though. Said the original owner ordered it specifically to drag race which is what it was most of its life. Hard telling till i actually get there and look at numbers. Wont be able to get to it till next weekend.

Most of the cars that were exclusively race cars turn up now with between 3000 and 5000 miles on them, in my experience.

K

Stuart - the pages are not falling out of your book?

Tsk, tsk.

K

If it comes with a legitimate 421 engine, even if it's not an SD I'd buy it. If it is an SD engine, it's the deal of the year.

Hey, so I'm careful with my stuff. :)

On the other hand, my 1961 parts catalog has a lot of loose pages and gets a little worse every time I pull it off the shelf.

If there is a partial vin stamped in the block where would it be? Front pad like chevy's? I am not familiar with pontiac engines to know. For that master where is the engine code cast into the block. Thanks

Engine code is stamped on the passenger side of block, below where the head mounts.
The VIN may be in same area. There will also be a 6 stamped digits below or above the engine code. (can't remember which for 1963)


:)

If you go to JohnTA's link above and scroll down a little it shows where the engine code is stamped on the block. For 1963 the VIN should be there as well. http://www.wallaceracing.com/enginesearch4.htm

I received the PHS documents today........ as expected it wasnt a SD car but it is an original 421 HO 3-2 barrel car at least. Now to determine if its worth the $2800 or what it is actually worth +/- ....

The 421 HO tripower is still a good engine.
Have pics of the car?


:)

That car with a REAL 421 HO that is usable or rebuildable core is worth the 2800.00 asking price IMO. I am assuming the body and frame are not rusted through and not usable. Keep in mind these full size Pontiacs are very expensive to restore if that's your plan. Wonderful cars, but not like looking through a pile of catalogs for Chevy parts and being able to build the entire thing from a book of restoration parts. Ames Performance Engineering probably has the largest catalog of full size parts and the 1963 offerings are pretty thin. Especially one year parts. Best of luck if you purchase the car.

Pics are on the first couple of posts in this thread :)

If this is a 421 powered 63 Cat I'd buy it at $2800. I had a chance to buy a 63 421 HO 4spd Cat. with tri color interior 20yrs ago and kick myself for passing on it.

Noice!! A 421 HO motor would be worth $2800 to me.

Dealer Zone 12 is along the Mississippi River basin in Illinois and Missouri; Dealer # 335 falls somewhere between "Huber" (Springfield Illinois) and "Kempf" (Fayette MO).

Kinda cool that it references a Memo regarding that rear axle ratio.

K

DUH!
Forgot this is the second page.

Do you (or owner) know the original dealer for the car?

:confused:

The PHS docs posted show zone 12, dealer 339.

Am i reading that right? 5.79 axle ratio?

3.90 ratio

That's a "5"; 12 - 335.

K

Always loved the 63's. They're my fav year of the 60's Battleships.

As others have said, $2800 for that car with the original 421 is all win.

Hope you get it! :)

What automatic transmission would have came in this car? Original is missing and would like to start to hunt for a replacement. Thanks