no more tiger heads? All Pontiac
 

https://butlerperformance.com/b-9992...llpontiac.html

i talked to david butler at norwalk and they definitely said edelbrock pro port victors were more likely to be available then tiger heads. is this the end of All Pontiac? i hope not.

Well since those Pro Ports are not being made anymore when they run out, what next ?

David said they will be available to Butler and BES in july

Got a set though BES its their Victor head they flow 480 cfm. Redesign pro port head. Thank you uncle Tony…LOL its their 72 cc chamber.

My understanding is they are dealing Direct with Edelbrock and worked on the new design but can also deal through Butler. Get in line, no tire kickers..LOL

Last time I talked to Frank he was having an issue finding someone to cast his heads, preferably in the US is what I understood.

Maybe since then it's as Gach stated, he ended up having Edelbrock cast them. So that's good news.

Kauffman (KRE ) someone posted a while back, who was trying to get KRE block and was told by Kauffman, there was none available because they were looking for a new foundry to cast new blocks. I don’t know if that situation has changed.

Frank says it’s only a temporary delay in heads and blocks

A lot has changed in the past 2 going on 3 years, Leonatti was bought out by Comp cams and Comp cams has been bought out by Edelbrock.

Wow, so Kauffman is having the same issue as Frank. Geeez

When you decide to get rid of your industrial base these things happen.
I hope Frank and KRE get it all worked out through US foundries.
We will pay more for it but better than offshore.

KRE does post skids of raw heads arriving. Are the foundries for a block different capability than blocks?

Foundry for IA blocks used to be casted right here in RI. I did some work at that foundry. Drains where plugged spent 2 days there.

Completely different I think thats what your asking. The block foundries only cast cast iron.

The Tiger2 head is very nice hopefully it isn't discontinued. The pro port is nice but it doesn't have raised exhaust ports and needed welding around spring pockets for proper roof height (maybe that has been fixed since the first run of heads though??).

BES Victor head. ( more or less their design ) working with Edelbrock. Not at all like the original Port Port head. The valves have been moved around. No sure if it’s offered with raised exhaust port. For me the problem with the tiger head is it’s not offered in 72 cc chamber. Very hard to make a pump gas deal. The Tiger 2 head raised exhaust port, ( not sure if thats only offered in tiger 2 head ) will only work in a tube Chassis car, or heavily modified chassis. No way would I be able to get headers hook up with raised port head. In my stock Chassis. In my opinion the Tiger 2 head is definitely better head for all out hp. Its great they offer Victor head in 72 cc chamber. Compared to the wide port-head. Is definitely a game changer. I mean 80 more cfm, best Wide Port I think is around 400 cfm.

When you suppose to receive you heads from bes?

I got them last year.

Nice! Could you post pics of the chambers and exhaust ports? Curious how best did them.

Nope

From BES, their "small" program goes 450cfm.

Why not?

Butler had them on display at Norwalk.

Eric

Gonna need coolant holes for the Street use huh. Wonder if they have the coolant passages?

Did you get pics?

they looked like dcars pics said roughly 10k with shafts etc castings looked fantastic you should go to norwalk more than once every 8 years lol

Yabthey quoted me 10-12 depending on options.
Pics are always nice to see. I'm curious about a couple things in the chambers and if the exhaust is really round like factory iron round ports are.

BES web site 450 cfm heads

https://www.besracing.com/racing-eng...elbrock-victor

Stan

I talked to AllPontiac a few weeks ago, at the time had one set left. They have a new foundry they are working with to make them, but may take awhile before production, as price is going up as well. From 6500 to 8500ish

Nice pics but has softened chamber for pa, I'd like to see a non-softened chamber

Was looking around on Butler and BES sites, I don't see where they advertise a 480cfm pro port head, just a 450-460 head and 52-54cc chamber.
Gach yours are 480cfm and 72cc??

"crickets"

Brian,
If you look at that web page it says "BES / Edelbrock Pontiac Victor Heads - Small Port Program" Maybe you need to call them about the bigger heads.

Stan

PS - John Marcella got 466 @ .800 from his Pro Ports.

I have talked to the people that sell them, according to them the 450-460cfm port is it as far as they're cnc program and there is only 1 chamber. If you get it softened that gets it to 56cc. Nothing bigger, they dish the piston to set compression.
I know the heads can be made to flow more, but the cnc ports according to the people that sell them don’t.

LOL

Brian,
I seem to remember when this first came out that there was going to be a 450 cfm and 480 cfm.

Looking at Butler's web site it looks like they have downsized them.

Stan

Most likely from lack of sales.... Or flow numbers LOL

He also got 462cfm out of High Ports !

I'm willing to bet he didn't actually get that

The highest I have for a KRE HP is 434 cfm. They had the push rod moved and were done by Dan Barton.

What ever happened with the new head KRE came out with a few years ago?

Stan

Not sure what to make of that. There is a post from him somewhere here where he mentions that. Back when he was doing a lot of Pontiac stuff he had a 459 CNC program for HPs.
In those days he had that Pro Port pump gas engine near 1000HP, Mikes E heads that made more power than your Barton High Ports with a like build, They went 414cfm, highest I know of and were not even flowed the last 2 times he worked on them.
And that set of High Ports of Giro,s that inspired Mike to go with Marcella High Ports.
Giros had the valves in stock location and Mike told me himself he thought John could get 480cfm with the valves moved around.
Then there were the 502cfm @ .850 lift Tigers he did.
For awhile it sure seemed like one guy had the best Pontiac E head, Pro Port, High Port and Tiger head. All done with welding, no stinking epoxy to leak later.
Not sure I would doubt anything he has done.


Who bought Giros top end with Mikes BOP. And whatever happened to Giro ?
That guy was a blast.

You can believe what you want but I will still bet money he didn't get that cfm. Not without moving valves which he never did. I am very familiar with HP heads and what they are capable of. Find that post where he says that. Also I talked to Mike and Giro quite a bit back then and seen the heads.

I've worked on John M's 460 cfm Hi-ports. I'm sure they'll make a ton of power but weren't a whole bunch different than another pair of Hi-ports we were working on that made record power. Those latter Hi-ports flowed less than 460 cfm.

Giro is doing well and working on a first Gen Firebird to put his Marcella/Brown bullet in.

Any idea how many Marcella Hi-ports are out there?

Wilcox used to claim some big numbers from E-heads.


Didn't Marcella's E-heads outpower his Pro-ports?



Not sure how you compare those two builds. Wasn't Mike's like 70 CID bigger?


I thought Mike inspired Giro to go with Hi-ports... But could be wrong

Lol ya the two engines are very comparable :confused2

70ci, more compression, dry sump to name a few.

Boy how time flies. This was over 10 years ago. What I have is 481 ci. Also Barry's dyno produced some real /not funny numbers.

Stan

For a Ponti head newb like me that reads a thread like this...

What's the most a High Port cfm has shown without moving the valve?

Is the Tiger 2 the newest version or is there something coming out after the new foundry team up?

What is the Tiger 2 rough max cfm without valve moved?

Everyone still agree cfm x2 is potential power for an engine on gas? That dyno chart looks higher than that if they're mid 450cfm heads.

Thanks

I like to use 2.2 but any number is just a very rough guess.

John's head were 466 so ► 1134 / 466 = 2.43348 I have seen dyno sheets for other engines around 2.5.

Calvin Hill got 420 cfm from KRE HP with a 2.20" intake valve.

Stan

Took me a bit. If he says it, I believe it.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...54#post5689654

I also found one of my old posts where I mention he has a CNC program that went 459cfm. So he had to have told me that.

They don't flow that without moving things, none of it matters because there is only 1 set of Marcella HP heads out there and they won't make the power a 460cfm head should.