POCI making major changes to their Smoke Signals Magazine
 

Is it correct to assume that many folks on this message board are also POCI members? I have been a member for about 46 years, member number 4199. I enjoy the high quality magazine, thick paper, varied articles from 1926-2010 vehicles. I feel they do a good job preserving the brand, hobby and history. In the latest issue, they mention a change to 9 print issues a year vs 12, effective immediately. All 12 issues will be available on-line. Citing "exponential" cost increases in printing costs as the reason.
Now, it's no secret that the POCI crowd is an old group of people. I am 65 years old and usually feel like a youngster among the POCI crowd. I have many older friends that are POCI members in their late 60's and in their 70's. Many of them do not own a computer, have zero knowledge of how to use one and will never have one. I even have 3-4 friends who do not have a cell phone, not even a flip phone, and have no plans to ever get one. I know this may sound absolutely crazy to many who read this but that's the way it is. All these folks are still active, driving their cars, living and enjoying their lives without all the technology we just assume EVERYONE has and is using. I wouldn't be surprised if 20-25% of the POCI members fall into this category.
I can see the writing on the wall, 9 issues a year immediately, 6 issues the next year, 4 the following year and then 100% on-line after that. If you want to kill off the club in 3 years, this seems like the perfect recipe.

I think it's important to know your members before making decisions. I bet the current membership would be happy to pay an additional $20.00 a year vs going on-line for the magazine. For the majority of the members, the Smoke Signals Magazine is the only reason they are still a member. What do you think?
]

I stopped years ago, it just seemed like the same thing over and over, running an ad for parts took like 2-3 months to get in, it just didn’t make sense with forums that you could post an ad instantly. around, when Don started Poncho Perfection, i stopped poci and did that.
Poci was the thing years ago, but it’s out dated now.

I think you are right mgarblik, and at the very least it either should have been put to a vote or given the option to pay more. Frankly, that magazine is the only reason that i belong to POCI. If it goes all digital, I may not be any more. There isn't even a chapter in my area. I really think with our shrinking demographic, GTOAA and POCI should be giving some serious thought to figuring out how to merge. Both are having some problems with convention locations as it is from what I understand. Membership for both only has one direction to go from what I see....

I think in the days before forums, POCI served a very important purpose, along with the ability to contact experts on specific topics when restoring a car. The classifieds also allowed the niche market seller and buyer to connect.

I am 53. I hate reading online magazines. I want the paper in my hand, I want to be able to read it when I want, where I want, dog ear the pages, cut out the Harbor Freight coupons, and keep the copy if I want.

I will not subscribe to an electronic magazine. This forum provides all the electronic information I currently need, with the ability to search a massive collective history of thousands of members. Hard to compete with that.

I understand the challenge all paper magazines are facing. Costs are increasing, readership is down, and after all, it is a business. If it does not make money, it will not continue to exist.

The only reason I continue as a member of POCI is the magazine, there have been some great articles over the years with good information, and it still has value for me. I rarely have or make time to sit and read them at home, so I save them as they come in and read a years' worth while away on vacation. The rest of the membership features like ability to ask tech questions, classified ads, or annual conventions have little value as I live too far away to participate and the internet and forums duplicate the rest, in real time.

Just my observations...

I wont go unline,im a tech advisor for the POCI.tom

I really like Poncho Perfection and also want to support Don Keefe. He is a good guy. But it's nearly impossible to get the magazine. I subscribed 2 times for 2 years at the Ames Performance Nationals at their recruitment tent. So I am over $60.00 into the subscription and have received a total of 2 magazines in 4 years. Whoever is handling the subscriptions is doing a terrible job of getting the paperwork correct and mailing magazines. I have reached out a couple times with no reply. I finally just gave up. Really disappointed because I would love to have a cop[y of the recent Norwalk coverage of the Super Duty display.

I've been a member since 1997ish. If they cancelled the paper magazine I will not renew my membership. I kept up with my membership for the good of the hobby. The magazine was pretty much all I got in return.

Give him a call or text. My sub was disrupted when I moved. Don made good on it with me.
He does have some back issues with the SD article in, ask him

Here I go. Our local POCI chapter we were just talking about this. Some of us are willing to pay for a magazine. We will drop our membership if it goes all digital.. I do not care for internet reading. At work they put construction manual on line pia, at times to look something up. Member since first Gettysburg.

For any of you who have had problems with your Poncho Perfection subscriptions, please e-mail me at [email protected] or call me at 585-489-9826. I have just seen the messages in my inbox here and will take care of those today. I haven't been online much lately, as I am finishing up my latest book and when it's out, I will let all of you know.

In the meantime, I have taken the subscription services function back from the Cruisin' Tigers, so if any of you have any problems with getting the magazine, please just contact me directly. Thanks!

With no disrespect intended, simply a difference of opinion:

I think the problem is being overblown in this thread. Yes, are will be some that would not stay if the magazine went simply digital, but I really doubt it would be a significant percentage.

And unless the attitude of the current administration has changed dramatically from when I was a member, good luck on getting the issue put to the members for a legitimate vote.

I have served as a tech advisor for GTOAA for a long time, a post I also held with POCI before the great GMC disaster.

Years ago, I would average 3~4 calls weekly with carburetor questions from folks telling me they found me in the magazine.

LAST YEAR I RECEIVED A GRAND TOTAL OF ONE (1) CALL!

Folks with questions now ask those questions on one of the social media forums. So either the folks that don't have computers either have no questions, or there are not that many who do not have computers.

Those of you against the current and probably future policy could write to the administrators, but as stated earlier, unless the attitude has changed, be prepared to be ignored.

My personal solution: I have a friend who refuses to own a computer. When he wants parts, or even to buy a car, he visits, we sit down with a beverage, and I look stuff up for him. Those who know folks such as this could take the same approach.

Again, just a different opinion.

Jon

Very disappointing. I believe most of us would much prefer an increase in dues rather than a digital magazine. This may be the beginning of the end of POCI. I'm 81 years old and have been a member since 1979.

I did not receive the January issue of Smoke Signals.

Mike, I have updated your information and have given you credit for the payments made. I started your subscription as of today and your expiration date will be 2/14/2028. Additionally, you will be getting the last two issues in the mail which includes the Norwalk coverage. My apologies for the delays, you're in the system now and updated. Thanks!

While I personally prefer to read hard copy magazines, the fact is, like it or not, everything will eventually migrate to online.

One other thing to consider with digital versus hard copy:

I personally have more than 150 linear feet of shelf space taken up by back issues of various magazines.

Anyone else with more back issues than they really need???

Jon

I'm going to re-up my POCI membership and contact Don about a Pontiac Perfection sub.

I signed up for POCI/Smoke Signals when Don posted here about it;
I had seen the magazine get MUCH better - and quite liked the magazine.

I have enjoyed many of the articles - and even after Don left the fold, it seemed like the publication was getting better.

I have posted this before, so I apologize if you are re-reading this;
As a Canadian, I fall under "foreign" subscriptions, a cost structure which had been explained to me as being based on mailing copies to Australia;
So I have nearly double the cost, for living a couple degrees north of the 49th parallel.

Then there's the fact that I would often get my magazine a month late;
So I'm paying nearly a 100% premium, and getting the magazine horribly late.
Not happy.
When I signed up, the Canadian rate wasn't so bad;
It looks like it was $37 vs $35, but has ballooned recently to $74 vs $45.

There really should be a "Canadian and Alaska subscription" fee - because I can understand a small increase in mailing costs - but not as big of a differential as I was paying;
If you were to guess that half of the American subscription cost is to cover the magazine and the remaining subscription cost if for mailing, that would mean that based on current subscription rates, I would have to pay about 230% more for shipping than an American subscription.
Can you see the absurdity?

For the last several years I had considered cancelling...
Last year I decided to go the cheap way out, and renewed with a "digital" subscription as a trial even though I don't like digital reading (forums aside).
I'm a pretty loyal guy, and I thought that when I joined that I read that there was a ten year pin - so I stuck it out, because I wanted that pin (darn-it!);
I thought I had passed the ten year mark... and recently noticed that the pins are now(?) only issued at 20 years... ugg, I guess I'm not getting a pin.

The web site (which was recently improved) sucked BAD for downloading magazines;
Migrating to the download page was convoluted, and the tablet I use for this sort of thing could rarely get an issue downloaded.
The refreshed website is worlds better than the old one... but I think I read two months worth of magazines when they were new, so my money was being wasted.

I don't do apps, and prefer printed magazines;
This last year confirmed to me that my subscription was a waste of money.

I am open to renewing (my membership expired January 31), but am dis-incline to have an online-only subscription and am tired of feeling screwed over for having Canadian "pesos" in my wallet.

I imagine POCI is facing the same problems as every other magazine publisher, in particular the cost of making a print magazine. If the big names are going to fewer issues per year, totally online, or shutting down altogether, it has to be even harder for those with smaller budgets.

I don't like it either, but unfortunately it's the way things are.

I have a spare room filled with old car and motorcycle magazines, and I don't know what to do with them. It would be a shame to just toss them out, but there's pretty much zero resale value even if I could find someone that wanted them.

I still subscribe to my local newspaper but I did switch to electronic copies several years ago. I got tired of sketchy delivery (the delivery guy seemed to miss me once or twice a week, and when he did deliver the paper he was likely to toss it into a rain puddle instead of on my front step) as well as consuming all that paper just to toss it in the recycling bin. Fortunately their electronic version is easy to read on my computer or on my phone.

I do not work in the magazine business, but I do ship stuff to Canada on the regular. The rates are ridiculous just for crossing the border. I don't agree with charging everyone Australia's rates, but at the same time that is likely just easier because setting rates for each country would be a full time job for someone 4-6 weeks of the year, when they are likely over budget already.

A price increase would be the most likely choice, because honestly, the demographic is not likely to take to online usage. If the target was 20-30 years younger that would be brilliant. I am probably one of the youngest on the forum, but even I hate online reading. Imagine someone who didn't grow up with computers.

I'm for "REAL" magazines, I find it difficult reading on the computer, (sounds like my job), I enjoy flipping thru the pages,( hard to take the computer to the toilet) I've put many motorcycle and cars back to original reviewing old magazine articles and original road tests. My mancave has areas with 4 high of wooden crates fastened together and attached to Harbor freight mini dollies, for ease of mobility with well over a thousand Motorcycle, Car magazines, tech manuals and original literature and well organized. I saw Stuart has a collection, but i enjoy researching and reviewing old tech articles, especially on crappy days.
Bottom Line each to their own, once things go all digital, I'm done and you'll find me in the cave!

I'm probably older than most of you. Years ago I tried Smoke on line to try to save a few dollars. It was so hard for me to read I gave up and went back to paper. You all have great responses. The same time I got the notice about Smoke I was notified that the local newspaper I had just received was the last one printed. A couple of months ago Hot Rod Magazine notified me there will no more monthly issues. After the loss of the Pontiac magazines that only leaves me Hemming's. I don't know anyone that reads books on paper. Everybody I know that's younger than I am does EVERYTHING on their phone. I think that "paper people" are a dying breed literally.

While I have not contacted POCI yet, I am very disappointed as well.
How do you share an "E" magazine? How would you like your car featured and have nothing to show for it? If you make "the cover of the Rolling Stone", how awesome to pass your phone around? I often include back issues (not mine) with parts I ship to spread the faith.
Best case scenario would be to do a periodic "E" issue with business related content & Ads and publish the car stuff in hard copy.
The world is going to heck, I tell ya!

I've been a POCI member since 1981. When the Canadian membership rates went through the roof several years ago, I opted for the digital subscription. I've read maybe one issue online. Same for SAE when they simply stopped offering Canadians printed magazines, and gave us no other option than digital. I hate digital magazines. The only magazines I read are the few that still arrive in my postal mail. Smoke Signals was an impressive magazine, I really miss it.

What's the current total membership of POCI?

Honestly, don't have an opinion either way on the delivery method of Smoke . I quit giving em my opinion & dues 25 years ago. While I'm sure I've missed a few good articles, from the multiple dozens of later issues that I've skimmed through, my whistle wasn't wetted.

FWIW, Im a huge fan of Magazines in my Kindle App on my Ipad (Or in the same app on my phone). I don't know if Smoke Signals is in the Kindle system. Ive read Hot Rod on there for years.

Magazines in general are a tough sell anymore though. Im 40, and that's probably young by this boards standards. People even younger than me done have a nostalgic attachment to standing in the magazine aisle why their mom shopped as a kid. In the information age where you can target search what you want, Its harder to convince people to pay for something that might or might not have content they are interested in every month.

I would like to see Peterson Publishing (Or whomever owns the bulk rights to all the car rags) to digitize ALL of their backlog and make it searchable. I would pay a subscription fee for that, and they could continue to provide new content along with the subscription.

I get old PHP and HR articles that pop up when I google search stuff, but its hit or miss. Sometimes the pictures dont work etc. And it can be hard to find a specific article sometimes.

As far as print media goes the new issues I miss the most:
-MuscleCar Review (Hemmings Muscle Machines blows! just cancelled again)
-Pontiac Enthusiast
-Classic Auto Restorer/Auto Restorer
-Guide to MuscleCars
-HPP (began subscribing in '81 with the second issue of ThunderAm)

I contacted the subscription / membership rep for Cruisin Tigers after having issues receiving a mag for past 2 years. He finally indicated he did not see things getting better in the future and offered / completed a refund. It was indicated this was because of the time you were taking away for your book. From what I was able to find there are a bunch of members that were in the same boat so getting them to re-up may be difficult. I for one really miss getting the mag..

Excerpt from the response I received:

“You should have access to the Members Exclusive section where past issues of Poncho Perfection and Tiger News are posted. The December issue has not been printed yet due to a delay from the editor of Poncho Perfection. This has been a problem this last year as he is writing a book and put the magazine on the back burner. I’m hoping that the December issue is ready by mid-February. He has a lot of catching up to do.
Very frustrating for all of us.”

“ I don’t see this getting better any time soon.”

Back in the mid 80's , when I wanted to join the local Pontiac (POCI) club in Greensboro , I had to join the National (POCI) and pay them yearly dues - before I could join the local club - and pay them dues also.

All I got out of the National was the Smokes magazine.
But it was worth that admission price to be able to benefit from being in the local club.

Do the local chapters still have to require their members to be paid up members of the National too ?

The local Pontiac(POCI) club in Greensboro was a super club. Great annual shows. Is is still active?

I am more than willing to own my portion of the problems but they are not the only reason that the magazine has had delivery problems. In December of 2022, the Cruisin' Tigers website crashed which destroyed the membership records. While a new website has been built, the records have had to be restored by hand and I was told that they weren't going to continue with that procedure, so in March of last year, the remains of the membership records were turned over to me to restore. We did the best we could using old mailing lists from before the crash and with the help of the new webmaster, we have put the membership records back in order. We have extended memberships where we didn't have records and sent out emails and postcards for people who have expired.

As for the schedule, we mailed out the August issue a few weeks ago and we are sending the October issue to the printer this week. I have all of the articles in for the December issue and will get on that as soon as October ships.

As you all know, we took a pretty big hit in November when Stan Rarden, one of our columnists, died and that further set things back. Our October issue is dedicated to him and lots of people in the hobby sent in their tributes to him. It was a very emotional issue to produce and we gave him the best sendoff we could.

As for my book, I freely admit I bit off a bit more than I should have but the topic was too good for me to pass up. It's called "Pontiac Factory Drag Cars: How a Manufacturer Ushered in the Muscle Car Era at the Drag Strip." It is being published by CarTech, who published Rocky's books and Dean Fait's bio on Arnie.

I have been working on it for two years and in the rush to get it finished, Poncho fell behind. I have been working my tail off every single day and honestly, life would have been a lot easier had I never taken on this project but I truly believe that that book will be a huge asset for the Pontiac hobby and will bring a lot of interest in the topic, as we have uncovered a ton of new stories and a lot of never before seen photography. The magazine and the Cruisin' Tigers will benefit from the added publicity this book will generate.

Yes, it's true that the magazine fell behind but we are catching up and I expect that by the time that we hit the road for the summer shows, we will be caught up- maybe sooner. We will be debuting the book at the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals and I look forward to it being completely in the rearview mirror. There's still some minor revising left to do but it's essentially finished.

I apologize to those of you who have had your subscriptions screwed up but the problems are clearing up and we look forward to some spectacular new issues of Poncho Perfection, including tech, historical articles, Department X features and the best Pontiac coverage available. Again, if you have any questions or problems, please feel free to email me at [email protected] or call me at 585-489-9826. I do answer my phone and will make right whatever has happened.

Most magazine companies have abandoned the Pontiac world. Poncho Perfection and our staff are still out there fighting the good fight and we're doing it ON PAPER. Please put some faith in us and in the Pontiac hobby so we can all enjoy it and pass it on to the next generation. The worst thing that we can do is bitch and moan about how things aren't like they used to be and dig the hole deeper. There's still one all Pontiac magazine left (no Oaklands and no GMCs) and it's Poncho Perfection. If you haven't seen it yet, sign up here https://www.cruisintigers.com/products/print-membership and get instant access to our back issues. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope it answers all of your questions. If not, you know where to find me.

If you subscribe to Motortrend+, you get access to back issues of 27 different titles. They have every single issue of Hot Rod and Motor Trend, Car Craft back to 2008, Muscle Car Review back to 2012. There are offroad and truck magazines, Mustang magazines, Mopar Muscle, Hot Rod Deluxe and many more.

I was a long time subscriber to Hot Rod, they gave me a free year access to MT+ when they changed to quarterly issues.

Nuff said apology accepted, nice to know 'the rest of the story', appreciate your dedication to the breed...


Frank

I would be happy to. I wish we had that option.

When GM muscled GMC into the Pontiac clan, I was PO then, you go to the Dustboff and see GMC trucks next to GTO”s. Not sure why the GMC guys think they’re better than the Chevy boys, hate to tell you, ITS THE SAME TRUCK, just 200 lbs of plastic chrome.

Mine do.

I'm in POCI so that I can maintain membership in my local clubs (the Motor City Chapter, and the Widetracker Chapter).

K

That would be July of 1863, for those keeping score.

;)

K

I also like the printed mags vs online but online is better than nothing. I'm also surprised nobody suggested printing out the online version? I also think POCI and GTOAA should merge, it just makes sense.

Lots and lots of good and varied responses to this thread! I just want to say for the record you can all read Don Keef's responses here. His dedication to the hobby and the magazine are clear and line up with my first post about Pontiac Perfection Magazine. Taking subscriptions in house again can only help the situation IMO. I think everyone on the message board wants the magazine to thrive and continue. I will be contacting Don directly as I don't want 4 years of the magazine for free. We will work something out. I want to support his efforts and the hobby in general. I also see a trend in these posts that the vast majority prefer PAPER magazines and are willing to pay more for them vs digital. I really hope someone at POCI with decision making power reads this forum and takes the posts here to heart. I use my computer for several hours each and every day for work and fun. But I can say without any hesitation I will end my 46 year membership to POCI if the magazine goes 100% digital. I own several old Pontiacs and enjoy the hobby specifically because the cars are NON-DIGITAL. You have to actually drive them!! It's relaxing to me much like reading a PAPER magazine. I quit my local newspaper delivery about 2 years ago due to poor delivery. I look at the digital version 1-2 times a month. I doubt I would get any value from a 100% digital Smoke Signals magazine. 9 print issues a year I can live with, but I am not happy about it.

That version of Muscle Car Review was a wannabe;
The real MCR was a whole different beast;
I was initially fooled when the title re-appeared on the shelves...
But as soon as I opened it, I could see that it was almost a Car Craft/Hot Rod re-hash done with the MCR title...

I get your stance, but sometimes things need to change in order to keep a hobby alive & relevant;
Just see the prior posts about the complaints from strato-streak(?) V* proponents against the corporate Pontiacs in HPP.

For a great deal of their history GMC was absolutely just a badge engineered Chevrolet-truck - but if you go back far enough, you can see that they used to be different;
Also, after Pontiac was folded, you could IMMEDIATELY see the Pontiac design influence on GMC vehicle offerings.
I prefer shows were different vehicle types are groups more or less together, so maybe you need to go to a different show, or have some involvement in THAT show so that you don't have a GMC (truck) parked beside a GTO(?).

I would wager that many like me think that printing a magazine doesn't even come close to the real thing... then there's the downloading issues (that at least) I personally had.
I too thought online was better than nothing, but I found it wasn't much better than nothing.

It would be great if someone with clout from POCI was to read this, and take some of the whining as constructive criticism;
If I could re-subscribe with a printed magazine for a reasonable fee, I would do it in a heartbeat (even knowing that I would often get my printed issue a month late).

And then the leadership at POCI allowed GMC to be muscled into POCI; and when I left. Nothing against GMC, just the way it was done.

Jon

Since 1975 GMC is a rebadged Chevy.

From 1911 to 1974, GMC was a truck. Many of the V-6 engines in the 1960's lived more than a million miles.

Jon

My 2015 GMC 2500 has been a good truck. I've noticed Chevy trucks in the same year their interiors are different. I happen to feel,think GMC is better just like the Pontiacs were compared to Chevy.

that's what they have done;
The GMC is a decked out Chevy.

I believe that certain options are only available in the GMC - while the stripped down truck is only available with a "bow tie".

I'm a huge GMC guy. That's usually all I own, unless it's an 88-98, then it can be a Chevy.

I’ll take the stripped down, not a fan of chrome plastic. Lol

I worked on a few of those V6's, you're right definitely hard to kill.

Ive been a motortrend + subscriber since its launch, and I wasn't aware of that. Ill have to see if I can figure out how to access that.

When you go to their website, click on 'magazines' in the header and it takes you to an overview page of all the magazines they have. Next to each title it says '>see all', click on that and it shows all the back issues available. It may take a moment or two for all the years to load, so be patient.