How many 70-72 Trans Ams are left out there to restore?
 

Anyone have an idea? Wonder if PHS has a number based on the VIN #s purchased over the years.

A straight up guess. 6.598 made. I'd say 80% survived. That leaves 5,278. I think there is about 15% so about 792.

Of all the 70-72 TAs I've owned over the years, I estimate I parted out about 2/3 to 3/4 of them. When I bought my 1970 Formula back in 1982, my insurance agent told me that 80% of all Formula Firebirds and Trans Ams had a major claim turned in within the first two years. This statistic came up because I looked into getting collision insurance on a car I was planning to buy, and I questioned why insurance was so expensive. Numerous 70-72 T/As came my way as wrecks or with blown motors. I would say an 80% survival rate would be extremely optimistic.

Agree with your conclusion.
I have owned about 30 of these cars over the last 35 years. 60% were scrapped out due to accidents and or other issues and I live in Texas. I would imagine this number is higher for northern cars with the Ice and salt.
I think 30-40% at best for remaining cars just based on my observations.
Would love to see some numbers to get an exact figure but that will probably never happen.
I bet PHS has a good Idea.

I am guessing 2640.

Not very many for sure... just look how many restored cars have the wrong fenders or hoods. Beat on and disposed of for the most part.

I've always assumed the survival rate was around 20%, but that is just a guess.

My guess on survival rate would be in the 20-30% range for T/As, too. A lot lower for Formulas, and a whole lot lower for base Birds and Esprits.

Wow. 20% really? He asked about Trans Ams only. So how many?

200 maybe?

Trans Am production numbers:

1970 = 3196
1971 = 2116
1972 = 1286

That's a total of 6598 cars for the three years.

6598 x 20% survival rate = 1319.6 cars.
6598 x 30% survival rate = 1979.4 cars.
6598 x 40% survival rate = 2639.2 cars.

I'm going to stick with my original guess of a 20% survival rate. How many of those cars are out there needing restoration is anyone's guess.

Does the PY forum have information on the numbers of members in this group with 70-72 TA’s listed as ownership on their bio?

Seriously doubt it. There are many here on PY, that dont list all the Pontiacs they have in their collections. not in the info about, or in the signature line.

The previous question concerning inquiries to PHS, I seriously doubt Jim has some sort of cumulative list on inquires on '70-72's. Maybe on folks that have had inquiries on '70 RA4 T/A's ;) Any collection of that data would be skewed by those of us that have sent in inquiries on VIN from loose blocks & loose engines that we have derived the full number & paid the $ to see what it came out of. Know over the decades I've done that on a '70 XP coded 400 & several other blocks. Not the only one to do that.

I’m not saying you will have a 100% accurate number from PY data. The fact is after all these years, that is an impossible goal. In order to have a somewhat realistic number based on factual info, this would be a place to start. Instead of pulling an arbitrary survival % like (5, 10, or 20).
Another suggestion would be to set up a sticky thread where People can simply chime it with their info. For example auto/manual, color white/blue, etc…. You obviously won’t reach every owner of every car…But I’d bet you would get most since many owners are on PY whether frequent contributor or the occasional ones. You never know…. as word spreads you could get some new members to join, and get close to a real number.

I think most owners of these cars are curious about “how many are left?”
I know I am.

If you had access, you could do a DMV database search and see at least how many are registered.

You could find out how many are registered, but not how many still exist. My two cars are numbers match, complete, no rust cars stored inside. They wouldn't show up on the list. I have another friend that has two cars that are un-restored, a 1970 & a 1971. I would expect there are just as many cars waiting to be restored as there are registered cars.

These cars were beat hard... probably harder than any other muscle car. Surprised any survived.

Winter snow and ice claimed quite a few, ....A little to much throttle in a corner with a posi and low RPM torque engine on ice and snow, easy to lose it especially someone who bought more car than they could drive

My stick shift 350 2bbl 1970 Esprit is probably pretty rare by original numbers and attrition but would be a money pit because no one would ever really care about it

Began putting together a "list" of known still existing '72 TransAms nearly 30 years ago. Around that time, knew of 8 '72 TransAms that were somewhat close in my region, along w one that an old friend in MD owns. Remember speaking w Gary (MuscleCollector) around that time, & he knew of 2 of the ones on my "list". Since that time the Internet, BB's, eBay, KIJI, BAT, have come on the scene. Couple that with an absolute DELUGE of checkerboard floor carlot hustlers & all forms of auctions. The result, MUCH MORE EXPOSURE. Unlike the old days of only running across a specific early T/A in Hemmings, Smoke, Auto Trader, Deals on Wheels, local Traders, or encountering a '72 T/A owner through networking, maybe p @ a big show, like T/A Nats, or at a big Swapper.

Believe I have info on near (or little more) than 200 '72 TransAms. Real cars, NOT clones. Need to organize & input a few dozen more '72 sheets which I've wrote down info on in the last few years to get a total. For the '72 model year, have T/A's & Formulas split up into "Early" builds, before Christmas of '71. Then "late" builds, cars that were built with seatbelt warning & 3 pt Irvin seatbelts. In some cases, I don't have the VIN noted, only know or am aquainted w the long time owner. Am sure there are more '72's out there.

Currently, know of over a dozen '70 TransAms in the base project phase missing parts, to '70's that are further intact or further along in the restoration phase. With there being so many more 70's built, have always had leads on 70 RA3 T/A projects.

If you don’t already have the info in your database, my brother has a 72 T/A Cameo White, 4 speed, A/C, custom/deluxe blue interior with front and rear consoles. Rear defogger as well. April 72 build shipped to Mc Namara Pontiac, Orlando FL. I can send the phs, just let me know.

200 72 T/As
 

200 1972 T/As that are real cars is close to 20% of the original number.
I bet if the owners of the PHS info put their heads together they could give us a close estimate from the inquires. There would be a few outliers but It would be a closer number than just guessing. Rank the data with the most inquiries as solid cars changing hands with the single inquiries as least reliable but still part of the data. statistics is a great tool if you know how to use it.

Very surprised they have not put something like this together for all the years they have been doing this. For someone that sells data you would think they were more curious than just selling it.

I have two 70 TA projects in progress. Dealing with wrong parts and missing parts.

My car was an unknown car until late last year. It sat in a garage untouched since the early-mid 90's. I believe I am the 3rd owner. I bought it word of mouth. I'm sure other unknown cars exist. I'd say there is probably a 40-50% survival rate. These were popular well liked cars.... even though most were thrashed on.

Very nice. It is surprising on how many early Trans Am four-speed cars have air-conditioning and many are in very good condition

I have done the same, since the late '90s, with '70 T/As. I have info on a little over 400 of them ... so about 12%. Some of these cars were rough, and may have been parted out, and of course some may have been lost to fires, floods, wrecks, etc. But as others on this thread have noted, there are lots of "unknown" cars out there still.

Rough idea on how many 4 speed A/C cars?

A/C
 

A/C = kiss of death on the performance side. Usually low numerical geared rears if I am not mistaken and a wide ratio M20 on most not all.

At least with '71 & 72 HO Birds when built w M22's (as well as '73 455 w M21's), they all* came w a 3.42 gear, didnt matter if non air or factory AC. I don't like the extra weight either, but am not installing a Sandeen compressor & the reqired goofy brackets on a serious restoration. *Prob should note a few very early built 71 M22 HO Birds w/o AC have been recovered with late 70 axle plant assembled COZ (3.73) 12 bolts. Believe that's more of an oddity than anything.

Am also not a fan of a M22 in front of 3.31's, esp with taller tires. One of my 71's wasvfactory equip with HO M22 & 3.31's . For it & my other '71 HO 233 car, Ive built up an 8.5 A-body rear with 3.73's to swap in & out for PureStock drag action.

My '72 is M22 3.42 A/C. Wish it didn't have A/C but it does...

Only have One
 

I have only one car with A/C. The rest are sticks. These cars are hard to find anyway. I would not pass it up just because it has A/C. Some want comfort while cruising. Least you got the stick version. Auto and A/C just not as mechanical.
3.42 gears mated with a M22 is far from what you could get in 1970.
My opinion is the non-A/C cars for 71-72 should have come with 3.55 or 3.73 option. 3.73 is a better gear for the M22 set-up. especially with a tall tire.
But GM thought otherwise.
My current 71 resto has 3.55s installed. little better than stock.

Your brother may have bought one of my old cars.

If my memory is correct, it had the WD motor (points, not HEI). It was originally white with deluxe blue interior, and I think it had rear console and I know it had rear window defog. I bought it from a guy in the Greensboro NC area around 1985. Somewhere in its previous life it had been painted Lucy Blue. The top end was off of the motor because the heads were removed to fix a burnt valve. After buying it, I built the engine with some added mods like SD rods and drove it about 20K miles. It was really stout, but I had used the H-O Specialties rear seal and it started leaking after about 5K miles. I built it with a hotter cam, electric pusher pump, SD rods, and had some head work done on the heads by a friend who worked for a Nascar team. I pulled the engine to fix the rear main leak, but never put the engine back together. I found a SD455 T/A I wanted, and another friend wanted to buy the car without the modified parts. I gave him a stock set of heads and a different intake and the original block and tranny. The buyer let it sit for a few years but never did anything with it. He lost interest and asked me to help him sell it. It went to GA, where it was restored back to white. At some point the guy in GA called me to let me know he was selling it. He kept in touch, said it went to California. I can probably dig up the VIN. If your brother's car has a WD engine, it is very possible it is my old car.

Maybe a few more if this wouldn’t have happened……….

I think that 20% survival on these cars is a bit low. I believe there are still a fair number of projects still hidden away. My ‘70 sat on a farm for decades until the PO bought it on an estate auction. There are four of us (all on this board) that own ‘71’s and we all live within 30 miles of each other. I know of at least one other ‘71 around here as well. I think that Trans and survival rate is 30-40%. People recognized these as special and many were left sitting in barns and garages long after they were done being used. Years ago I bought a blue ‘71 from Indiana that had been wrecked in the late ‘70s. The car was a total loss and mostly parted out but never scrapped. It still had a title and may be out there on the road today.

Easily north of 50% survival rates on early TA's.

They were low production special cars from 69-74, everyone loved them and saved them because they were special.

Totally agree . I have documented well over 50% of 70 TAs with RAIV that survived .

Would you think the survival rate of the RAIV T/A would be greater than RAIII?

I used to own a 71 formula 455ho 4 speed with the factory 3:73 10 bolt. It’s currently being restored.

I Also owed a 71 TA 4 speed with 3:73 10 bolt posi.
I never checked to see if it was factory though.
It’s currently being stored. It’s not on anyones list.

Not really. I think about the same